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Thread: TH400 vs 4l80e

  1. #1
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    TH400 vs 4l80e

    Been looking around and just can't find that much info other then the real basics and conflicting info.

    Looking at a fully manualised auto box for my VZ 408ci (450hp/800nM)

    Main ones been looking at TH400 and the 80e, but the TH400 doe not go well for a street build car and find no real info on the 80e.

    So opening it up to people who know way more then me when it comes to trans as to the best option and how much it will burn a hole in my pocket!

    Something I can throw in now and will also take the hp/nM increase when I throw a supercharger on it (long term plan)
    Last edited by Gr3mlin; 31-12-2017 at 01:41 AM.

  2. #2
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    Pm tre-cool
    I drive a Prius cause I'm dead inside.

  3. #3
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    6L80 Conversion.

    Because 6 gears > 4.
    -86 VL Turbo


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  5. #4
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    John Lloyd from SQP does the conversion.
    Not sure of specifics,but Im lead to believe that they are stronger than a 6l80e
    Ive just had an 6l80e fully built to go behind my blown stroker combo so we shall see how that performs for Racewars

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  7. #5
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    The 6L80, are there any sort of stand alone computers for these whereby you can have a sedate throw it in D for cruising around, flick a switch and pressures are bumped up etc and it's completely manualised? I am not sure on how much of the selector is mechanical, I figure any gear choice but P is electronic. I also figure being fully electronic all the pressure control is electronically controlled as well so you could have nice shifts and hard shifts at the flick of a switch/change of transmission map?

  8. #6
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    Iv got a 6l80e for sale if you are interested
    Bike: 89 GSXR 1100 Street Fighter
    Dirt: 08 Husqvarna TE510
    Fun: 88 VL Calais wagon LS1 6spd
    Bunky: 01 BMW X5
    Slow: 100 series Landcrusier Turbo Diesel

  9. #7
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    Don't think so.
    Couldn't find one from compushift or any of the other aftermarket controller mobs.

    I remember reading something about the TCM being very tied in with ECU for torque feedback and clutch release timing which was making it real difficult for the developmemt of standalone controller

    Edit Found the bit I was reading

    the trans itself is actually pretty simple....
    the control of the trans is actually pretty simple as well...
    but making something that properly controls the trans is the issue...

    the real issue is that the 6L80 just isnt made for any serious power
    and you need all the "torque management" to keep the thing from breaking

    programming the torque management requires some feedback from the engine pcm itself and also some response back to the engine PCM

    that is the part that makes it tough to do...

    there are plenty of controllers that could change the gears and do the pressures correctly....
    but that transmission breaks easy without any fine tuning control... which is all done via canbus and the TCM in the sump area of the transmission itself

    all you would have to do is supply a kit to bypass the internal tcm and suddenly you have a standard valve body transmission...simple solenoid control is all it would be at that point..
    (and I know theres more to it than what I just said.... it would be quite an expensive task to make a custom bypass harness just to use a separate trans controller)
    Last edited by Lukey; 01-01-2018 at 02:37 PM. Reason: Found it

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  11. #8
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    We did a couple of 4L80E conversions while I was at Active.
    The main hurdles are the physical size of the box in the tunnel (the plug is in a different spot and will found a support brace on the tunnel) and also finding a base tune to run the transmission. In one of the VZ`s we had to run a Silverado base tune as they ran the 6.0 and 4L80e. That car currently makes nearly 700 at the wheels and runs 10.0`s, the conversion wasn't cheap however (around 8k from memory)

    6L80e aren't much chop either. I think tre-cool is running one in his VY but using strictly tap-to-shift (I could be mistaken)
    They are torque sensitive for the shifts too and need to know road speed, injector duty cycle, rpm, throttle position etc

  12. #9
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    Sounds like a it's time for a Holinger.
    Quote Originally Posted by JME View Post
    Fuck People.

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  14. #10
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    Be interesting to see how my built 6L80e goes on the 402 with bigger blower and e85.
    Std one has held 700 hp no worries.

  15. #11
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    If you only have 450whp, then going to a 4l80e is gonna be expensive as fuck! th400 pretty close. th400 is fucked if you do a lot of 80+kph driving & if you have a high diff gear your gonna hate life.


    I'd go the 6l80e as i've just done it myself, Albiet i also swapped from ls1 to a late model E38 ve ecu/operating system, simply because early e38 ecu u have to fuck around with injector scaling for the bigger injectors im running.

    You can run a 6l80e behind pretty much anything now. There is a computer that acts as the middle man so to speak.
    https://www.powertraincontrolsolutio...on_Controller/

    The device is just fed an rpm & tps signal, switched power/earth. While i have not used one these devices yet, ive read into it and it makes sense.

    The 6l80e is basically fed a torque figure from the ecu in a normal factory spec car, along with peddle position etc over canbus, from that it works out pressures for oncoming/off going shifts. the tcm-2650 would be programmed with a very simple 3d torque output from your rpm/tps data.

    The TCM inside the 6l80e stays where it is, as that is what still controls the auto, so it would be tuned the exact same way it normally would be but instead of talking to the factory ecu it goes to the tcm-2650, shift points etc are still done by the trans ecu, so tune-able via efilive or hptuners still.

    You can change the programming in the trans tcm so you can have normal auto drive mode & tapshift, either via the device or direct to the trans.

    for instance my vy ute has a normal 4 speed auto shifter,
    P
    R
    N
    D
    3
    2
    1

    When in drive it's full auto. When in 3, That's my tapshift mode & i have the buttons working via the steering wheel (VZ SV6 has factory steering wheel tapshift). the other 2 & 1 positions do fuck all, but you can pull it back to 1. I haven't bothered to test it yet but it should technically lock you to the lower gears. Why you'd bother is beyond me, since you can use tapshift anyway.

    There would be some further wiring needed to sent a ppk pulse into your factory ecu but that's not hard either, i've worked the shit out on my own & probably done more then some workshops because i've played with them so much. but honestly the shit aint rocket science.

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  17. #12
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    Told you to pm tre-cool
    I drive a Prius cause I'm dead inside.

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  19. #13
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    Would a 6L80E work behind a low revving higher torque turbo diesel? Interesting learning about ability to adapt to almost anything.

  20. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by crabman View Post
    Would a 6L80E work behind a low revving higher torque turbo diesel? Interesting learning about ability to adapt to almost anything.
    Well considering they put the 6l50e behind the 2.8l td duramax in the colorado (which i have too) which is a lower torque rated box you should be safe. but i guess depends on your power?

    my collie makes 208whp but 600+nm of torque between 2000-2600rpm.

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  22. #15
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    Keep tossing up between building an auto 1HDFTE 130 series land rover for next car or just buying new. A newer box behind the diesel could make for a nicer car, just double checked and factory is a 5 speed anyway, a lot of effort for one more gear. Just thinking out loud via a thread hijack lol

  23. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tre-Cool View Post
    You can run a 6l80e behind pretty much anything now. There is a computer that acts as the middle man so to speak.
    https://www.powertraincontrolsolutio...on_Controller/
    Keen to hear first hand reviews on these. 6spd auto would be a nice upgrade I think, especially with manual mode still available.

  24. #17
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    Was a while ago i was reading about using the PCS controller but from memory people were having trouble getting it to work smoothly as it only came with a base map and PCS will only provide support to dealers and not individuals. Could be completely different now?

    On a related note there is a standalone controller for Ford 6R80 autos now. People have these holding 1000hp in stock form over in the U.S, this is what id go for in a non GM application. The same company is looking at supporting the 6L80E and possibly the new 8/10 speed boxes
    http://www.usshift.com/

  25. #18
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    You might be confusing this pcs controller with the one they make for the 4l60/4l80e which DOES control the shift points etc.

    The 6l80e has to run/keep it's own built in controller. No if's or buts to it.

  26. Likes heavyduty1340 likes this post
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