GTR vs V8

[Daniel VR4]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdjvS1k-bLQ&search=gtr

check it out...

[Twe12ve]

hahha HARDCORE!!

[confuzion]

yeh baby :)

[PABS]

haha, bet he got sick of watching the ass of that GTR :) CHOPPED!!!

[McKVNT]

love it

[[2_FLY]]

haha notice thats the 1990 race too. Imagine how pissed off they were in 92

[Miami]

just look a the power of that nisSAN!

[MMM]

how exciting....

[blacklisted]

just goes to show rice is better! nice find man

[mc68]

i miss that commentator, lol....

stupid comments, cant prenounce words....like john 'bow'

[Daniel VR4]

just goes to show rice is better! nice find man

thx...hahahah chop for sure..

[gt4]

hahah
chopped so hard

[adrenalin]

Haha Turbo > V8

I remem the good old days when it was the E30 M3 Evo's vs the 32 GTR's :)

[evil_weevil]

gees you lot cant get over the old touring car days can you...

move on - nothing to see here.

[Denver]

gees you lot cant get over the old touring car days can you...

move on - nothing to see here.
Probably because the two make super taxi series, is the most boring race series on the face of the plannet, and the touring cars actually had interesting racing, with the different classes mixing it up on the tracks. Hell even nascar bowl racing is more exciting, as they actually do some passing and postion swapping.

gone are the days of decent spectator viewing, instead we put up with two cars makes which are basically identical with the exception of the outer panels, winning races in the pits..

excitment central..

we lost a good thing back in 92, because of a pack of red neck tards who couldn't handle being beaten, and decided to cry like a pack of children instead of lifting the game..

[Jimmah]

Sing it to me brother

[evil_weevil]

and look who is crying now?

seriously - get over it !!

its happened,was bloody 14 years ago!!!! nothing is going to change it!!no one is forcing you to watch the supertaxis are they???No!!

so stop your whinging and go watch another type of race - such as rally events or whatever.

nearly every week theres always someone bringing up the old days!!


oh, and by the way - i actually own a skyline so dont be calling me a redneck just because I like the V8's!!!

[TJ]

The supertaxi series is boring as hell

If it was all 34 GTR's that didnt pass each other unless in the pits, id call it boring as hell too.

However, theres also footage of the same era of a Sierra Cosworth walking away from the GTR's down conrod straight...

suddenly its cosworth > nismo

[GTRgav]

Actually - the straight line "chop" is rather boring. The fun of these car is powering out early from the apex as shown in the first corner where the ATTESSA "tucks" the rear end back into shape.

[TJ]

The Sierra stepped out stupidly hard :)

No 4wd to bring it back either hehe

The m3's where nimble as all hell, winning the Wellington street race 5 years running, 4 with a european team, the 5th with Longhursts team, which he dedicated to Denny Hulme who had a heart attack and died during bathurst in the sister car :(

[[2_FLY]]

Didnt they force the diconnection of the 4ws at the end of 91. Along with a huge weight penalty?

[GTRgav]

']Didnt they force the diconnection of the 4ws at the end of 91. Along with a huge weight penalty?

No - only boost restrictions and as you say increased weight penalty.

The official (and probably real) reason for the demise of the imported cars at Bathurst was the obscene amounts of money being spent. Gibson Motor Sport had basically an open cheque book supplied by Nissan which included 4 of the design engineers of the GT-R sent over from Nissan Japan at their "beck and call". They also commissioned Hollinger to design and build a new 6 speed 'box. Rumours were that this budget aproached what GMH and Ford Australia typically spent on developing a new model!

It's easy to see why the privateer teams in "home grown" Falcons and Commodores were suitably upset.

[TJ]

Those engineers where good enough cheat thier way around most of the restrictions anyhow....

[[2_FLY]]

I heard the Gibson motorsport GTR that won bathurt cost in excess of 600k back then!
I couldnt imagine the HRT VN GRP A costing a quarter of that considering how simple they were.

[GTRgav]

']I heard the Gibson motorsport GTR that won bathurt cost in excess of 600k back then!
I couldnt imagine the HRT VN GRP A costing a quarter of that considering how simple they were.

That was for the car only. Remember that they has a standby car also ready along with gearboxes, engines, front/rear diffs etc.......


Taken from the "Race History of Godzilla" document:

The Gibson team invest AU$300,000 - AU$400,000 in a sophisticated telemetry system in anticipation for the GT-R development programme

and in Jan 1990:

Sansui come on board as a major sponsor for Gibson Motorsport, the money rumoured to be around AU$1,000,000.

[TJ]

But its also rumoured that holden and ford hid the costs of thier programs to ensure that the rule makers swayed with them

Developing an entire new race car is never cheap. Might not have been GTR cash but it woulda been a bit.

[GTRgav]

I'm sure you're right TJ.

What's the budget for a Bathurst car (entry) today I wonder?

[Denver]

the falcadoors cost around 250ishk now days, the 600k figure in the day was huge money, but id say, given that the cost of a lot of stuff has gone down, you could build the same cars for around 1-200k now, back in 90/91/92 so much of the stuff we can get now, just did not exist for the cars, so it was all custom made..

[GTRgav]

Yer - true that Denver.

You can understand why the Nissan dealers had problems moving Aussie delivered GT-Rs for $110k or so.

How many Brock-a-dores could you buy then - maybe 2 plus cash left for the missus's shopping trolley?

[TJ]

You could build a street GTR that would lap as quick/quicker on slicks for like 150k I reckon

[GTRgav]

You could build a street GTR that would lap as quick/quicker on slicks for like 150k I reckon

TJ - how did you get a copy of the invoice form my last rebuild! :uhh:

[McKVNT]

Heh nice.. nice lookin car

[1JZNOSHIT]

GTR handing chop....

Turbo fans should buy 'Bathurst, the Turbolent Years' on DVD and watch the boost own the mountain!

Those were the good ol' days when a the mix of cars included Skylines, Commodores, Falcons, BMWs, Supras, Corollas, Sierras etc all battled at the mountain.

[mek]

ha ha ha love that video.

It would be great to see a return to more than two make racing.

[adrenalin]

Its just funny the v8's getting there ass handed to them by a 4cyl bmw NA motor. :)

But yes i prefer the GTR's and M3's over Holden and Ford.

Did anyone ever see the video of the GTR and M3 battling it out on bathurst. They constantly over take each other for bout a minute and a half with the GTR whoopings its ass out of the corners and the M3 getting the inside lane and getting on the brakes a lot later.

There is enough holden and ford **** in Aus and the import race scene is no where as big in Aus as what it was.

GT Cup is about it and thats all fezzas \ lambos \ Beemars etc and thats on for stuff all.

[Blownxd]

Its a case of each to there own, Id much rather see and hear a 600bhp V8 hammering around a track than a turbo6/turbo4/non turbo 4 any day and from the record spectator turnout to the V8 supercar rounds and the recent expansion rounds in Hong Kong and New Zealand it seems its not only us True Aussies who enjoy the V8 supercar series. I believe spectator turnout to any round of the V8 supercar in Australia more than quadrupals spectator turnout to Rally Australia events.

[Denver]

Its a case of each to there own, Id much rather see and hear a 600bhp V8 hammering around a track than a turbo6/turbo4/non turbo 4 any day and from the record spectator turnout to the V8 supercar rounds and the recent expansion rounds in Hong Kong and New Zealand it seems its not only us True Aussies who enjoy the V8 supercar series. I believe spectator turnout to any round of the V8 supercar in Australia more than quadrupals spectator turnout to Rally Australia events.
Quadrupals, are you on drugs..

the spectator numbers at the superstage are not an accurate reflection of the numbers attending the rally to watch it, over the course of the weekend the amount of people who go and watch it in the various stages would easily come close to the spectator attendances at the waneroo round of the v8's, which from memory is the 2nd/3rd largest round when it comes to bums on seats..

As for why its so big, its called advertising, works for any event, if you advertise the thing people come to watch it, if its one thing i have to give credit to tony cochrane for is hes a marketing wizz, and knows how to push an event, saddly his ignorance and head in his ass attitude is about where i stop having respect for him..

Comments like claiming the F1 race in melbourne is nothing more than a support race to his non point scoring taxi race, leave a bitter taste, hes really an arrogant wanker, and all hes done is take motorsport back wards..

The touring cars was a GREAT thing, they almost had the parity thing worked out, problem was there was too many whingers, and the meat heads who couldn't see what a good thing it was, if they'd let it run a bit longer, then exciting racing would have continued, you'd have seen the v8's mixing it with the turbo beasts, while the super light NA screamers would have been diving in under them for track position..

Instead now, we have a bunch of identical cars, seeing who can get to a fare the fastest...

The most anoying bit of all this, is the touring cars was devised as a series to see a car on the track, you could actually go an buy from a dealer the following day...

This all ended in 93, atleast back in 92, asside from stuff like the dry sump setups, cage and brakes, the car was still fairly identical to what you'd buy at the dealer, suspension was the same setup, drive line etc..

theres SFA a falcon or a commodore has in common with the car the body pannels are based on now days..

[Daniel VR4]

does anyone have the dvd?

[Yipes]

Gav has the whole set fro 64 i think to 92

[adrenalin]

Couldnt agree more with denver.

Sure a 600 hp V8 might sound better but there is no diversity thus its boring. If they wanted to make it interestign why dont they allow the GTR's and Euros back into the scene and limit everyone to 600 hp. The problem is they will just have a sad because those companies can afford to spend more money on technology.

As for V8's vs Rally getting more people once again i think thats a load of **** as well. V8's arent spread over parts over a couple of days or stages and the one most people go to are the super stage at langley park which i am sure you are basing your assumptions on. Wanneroo can support more people than a couple of stands put up temporarily.

[Blownxd]

Quadrupals, are you on drugs..

the spectator numbers at the superstage are not an accurate reflection of the numbers attending the rally to watch it, over the course of the weekend the amount of people who go and watch it in the various stages would easily come close to the spectator attendances at the waneroo round of the v8's, which from memory is the 2nd/3rd largest round when it comes to bums on seats..

As for why its so big, its called advertising, works for any event, if you advertise the thing people come to watch it, if its one thing i have to give credit to tony cochrane for is hes a marketing wizz, and knows how to push an event, saddly his ignorance and head in his ass attitude is about where i stop having respect for him..

Comments like claiming the F1 race in melbourne is nothing more than a support race to his non point scoring taxi race, leave a bitter taste, hes really an arrogant wanker, and all hes done is take motorsport back wards..

The touring cars was a GREAT thing, they almost had the parity thing worked out, problem was there was too many whingers, and the meat heads who couldn't see what a good thing it was, if they'd let it run a bit longer, then exciting racing would have continued, you'd have seen the v8's mixing it with the turbo beasts, while the super light NA screamers would have been diving in under them for track position..

Instead now, we have a bunch of identical cars, seeing who can get to a fare the fastest...

The most anoying bit of all this, is the touring cars was devised as a series to see a car on the track, you could actually go an buy from a dealer the following day...

This all ended in 93, atleast back in 92, asside from stuff like the dry sump setups, cage and brakes, the car was still fairly identical to what you'd buy at the dealer, suspension was the same setup, drive line etc..

theres SFA a falcon or a commodore has in common with the car the body pannels are based on now days..

You cant blame advertising for the lack of spectators at Rally Australia, Rally Australia is advertised in just as many forms of media as V8 supercar series if not more. The way they have the touring car series now is obviously different to the way it use to be, as you said it was suppose to be a series in which a production car with minor modifications could race. As far as the car's being exactly the same its not completely true the falcons and commodores have a completely different wheelbase length, engines (restricted to a maximum cubic capacity and horsepower level), aerodynamics, and look different to each other in the fact there based on the manufacturers production vehicle.

In the end it comes down to strategy, setup, driver, team, tyres and luck id much rather see a series that is closely contended than one were a production vehicle like the GTR (which at the time weighed far less than most of its competitors, therefore had greater power to weight, also had a larger financial banking and to top it off was 4WD and not RWD like its competitors.) dominated the field. It if hadnt have dominated the series it would have been disgraceful infact it should have won every race it entered but yet it didnt??? It would be like entering a F1 in Formula Ford, or Indycarit doesnt take a brain surgeon to guess who'd win.

[adrenalin]

Not true at all. The E30 M3 won every bathurst bar 1 i think from 88 to 92 i think it lost 1991 i believe to the R32 GTR.

4wd is no excuse sure they will get a better take off from the line but with the tyres there running most of the cars are just going to grip going into and out of corners.

I imagine if they let 33 or 34 Gtr's in they would weigh fairly close to the V8's and also be about the same length.

I heard magna's may be entereing the competition ages ago so dont know if anyone else heard that or if it was a fake rumour.

[TJ]

They dont even make magnas anymore... so no.

[Daniel VR4]

magnas? hahahah dont think so they gona enter now with financial crisis at mitsubishi....

[ED40]

Not true at all. The E30 M3 won every bathurst bar 1 i think from 88 to 92 i think it lost 1991 i believe to the R32 GTR.

Um i don't know where you got that information from. Bmw have never won a bathurst race agianst nissan/holden/ford/etc

88 and 89 where ford sierras
91 and 92 where r32's.

[1JZNOSHIT]

perhaps an M3 won in a different class, but yeah I didnt think they have ever had an outright victory against the Sierras, GTRs and Commodores.

[adrenalin]

perhaps an M3 won in a different class, but yeah I didnt think they have ever had an outright victory against the Sierras, GTRs and Commodores.


Sorry yea your right wrong race

here are results

Mount Panorama

* 1963 - Harry Firth / Bob Jane (Ford Cortina GT)
* 1964 - Bob Jane / George Reynolds (Ford Cortina GT)
* 1965 - Barry Seton / Midge Bosworth (Ford Cortina GT500)
* 1966 - Rauno Aaltonen / Bob Holden (Morris Cooper S)
* 1967 - Harry Firth / Fred Gibson (Ford Falcon XR GT)
* 1968 - Bruce McPhee / Barry Mulholland (Holden Monaro GTS327)
* 1969 - Colin Bond / Tony Roberts (Holden Monaro GTS350)
* 1970 - Allan Moffat (Ford Falcon XW GTHO Phase II)
* 1971 - Allan Moffat (Ford Falcon XY GTHO)
* 1972 - Peter Brock (Holden Torana LJ XU-1)
* 1973 - Allan Moffat / Ian Geoghegan (Ford Falcon XA GT)
* 1974 - John Goss / Kevin Bartlett (Ford Falcon XA GT)
* 1975 - Peter Brock / Brian Sampson (Holden Torana L34)
* 1976 - Bob Morris / John Fitzpatrick (Holden Torana L34)
* 1977 - Allan Moffat / Jacky Ickx (Ford Falcon XC)
* 1978 - Peter Brock / Jim Richards (Holden Torana A9X)
* 1979 - Peter Brock / Jim Richards (Holden Torana A9X)
* 1980 - Peter Brock / Jim Richards (Holden Commodore VC)
* 1981 - Dick Johnson / John French (Ford Falcon XD)
* 1982 - Peter Brock / Larry Perkins (Holden Commodore VH)
* 1983 - Peter Brock / Larry Perkins / John Harvey (Holden Commodore VH)
* 1984 - Peter Brock / Larry Perkins (Holden Commodore VK)
* 1985 - John Goss / Armin Hahne (Jaguar XJS)
* 1986 - Allan Grice / Graeme Bailey (Holden Commodore VK)
* 1987 - Peter Brock / David Parsons / Peter McLeod (Holden Commodore VL)
* 1988 - Tony Longhurst / Tomas Mezera (Ford Sierra RS500)
* 1989 - Dick Johnson / John Bowe (Ford Sierra RS500)
* 1990 - Win Percy / Alan Grice (Holden Commodore VL)
* 1991 - Mark Skaife / Jim Richards (Nissan Skyline GT-R)
* 1992 - Mark Skaife / Jim Richards (Nissan Skyline GT-R)
* 1993 - Larry Perkins / Gregg Hansford (Holden Commodore VP)
* 1994 - Dick Johnson / John Bowe (Ford Falcon EB)
* 1995 - Larry Perkins / Russell Ingall (Holden Commodore VR)
* 1996 - Craig Lowndes / Greg Murphy (Holden Commodore VR)
* 1997 - Geoff Brabham/David Brabham BMW 320i
* 1997 - Larry Perkins / Russell Ingall (Holden Commodore VS)*
* 1998 - Rickard Rydell/Jim Richards Volvo S40
* 1998 - Jason Bright / Steven Richards (Ford Falcon EL)*
* 1999 - Steven Richards / Greg Murphy (Holden Commodore VT)
* 2000 - Garth Tander / Jason Bargwanna (Holden Commodore VT)
* 2001 - Mark Skaife / Tony Longhurst (Holden Commodore VX)
* 2002 - Mark Skaife / Jim Richards (Holden Commodore VX)
* 2003 - Greg Murphy / Rick Kelly (Holden Commodore VY)
* 2004 - Greg Murphy / Rick Kelly (Holden Commodore VY)
* 2005 - Mark Skaife / Todd Kelly (Holden Commodore VZ)

[ED40]

yeah i think they won the 2ltr class???

[mc68]

they won the 1601cc to 2500cc class every year i think...

and ae86's never lost from 1984 to 1992 in the under 1600cc class...

and blownxd...that may be your opinion, but im sure ALOT of people will say the v8 taxicabs are getting very stale.....parity is a good thing, if its a step up entry level class, as people dont need to spend big dollars to be competitive...but for Australasia's premier motor racing class, why bother, they are spending millions of dollars a year and you can bet 9/10th of the feild is doing the exact same thing to your car....they all perform the same (most) they all turn the same, they would all grip the same (goes back to setup, but the cars are designed the same)

but the sierras setting pole, holding the commodes and gtrs back until turn one, then a kick in the ass kicking them sideways when the huge lag stopped...all the while starions, M3's, supras, corollas, are all fighting for their own positions...is alot more fun to watch than the same cars moesey around...sure gtrs had an advantage, and the could have capped them by resrticting turbo cars, rather than doing what they did....

the 92 bathurst had like 50+ cars.....how can you say today's are better?

[1JZNOSHIT]

they should atleast get the XR6T on the grid at the mountain :D