Would Godzilla still win?

[Rossco]

Had an argument with a mate about this last night.

Hypothetically, if you threw the Gibson Motorsport R32 GTR (in its current preserved form) back into this years Aussie Touring Car Championship, along with a decent driver (i.e Skaife, Kelly, Lowndes etc), do you think it would still be competitive?

Id go as far as saying it would win the title. Your opinions gentlemen?

[ben351]

hahahahah .... HAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HHA

decent driver skaife ??? did you watch this years comp ??
hes had it now ... Kelly, Richards, Ingall, Lowndes maybe ... Skaife ... NO !
what sort of power did those cars have in there time ... cos i think the average V8 pushes out the 600 - 650 ponies (correct me if im wrong) ... that would be a good battle to see hey

[TJ]

Skaife , as much as i hate him, is an incredibly skilled driver, who now also has the pressures of running a team.

Godzilla with 2006 spec tyre technology, fuel, tuning, and improvements in race engineers, would quite likely mix it up very well with the "supercars"

[1JZNOSHIT]

as tj said, with the technological marvels available today, I would like to think a freshened up GTR would comprehensively hose the V8s....

[Joe]

']as tj said, with the technological marbles available today...

Technological marbles will mean that the GTR pings itself to death before it even finishes one lap!

[1JZNOSHIT]

haha, illegitimate post modifying....

[TJ]

Just like his offspring, illegitimate!

[ben351]

']Skaife , as much as i hate him, is an incredibly skilled driver


was tj .... was

[Denver]

was tj .... was

Still is...

Just because schuie didn't win last year, mean hes suddenly out the door..

same goes for skaife

anyway back to the subject, IMHO the gt-r might struggle, if it was to run as it did in 92, however allow it new tyres, parts etc, and suspension setup, it'd cream them

[ReaperSS]

Anyone have lap times on what the r32 gtr did and what the v8's now do?
With just tired and a few little mods i would say gtr would win but it is a good question

[ben351]

i been serachin for that marc ....
i think most of the old GTR lap records have been clocked by the V8s ... which would indicate they are gettin around the track quicker ..... i think Bathurst is still a GTR time but (once again correct me if im wrong)

so to answer your question GUN-R32 ... IMHO yes the V8s would hose them today.
like you said a Gibson Motorsport R32 GTR (in its current preserved form) would get hosed by the Boss 290 of Marcos Ambrose :)

[TJ]

LOL @ Boss 290

Not one part in that engine and ambroses are the same!

Every track in the country has been resurfaced, wanneroo times dropped by over a second when it got redone...

Someone needs to organise a R to go some runs on current tracks :)

[ben351]

']LOL @ Boss 290

Not one part in that engine and ambroses are the same!



i dont get it ?!
he asked who would win out of a GTR or those days and the supercars of nowdays

[s13-steve]

all the V8 supercars use the same 5L engine, prety stupid when the factory cars are 5.4L and 5.7L, this is to keep it "fair" they both put out 620hp

[TJ]

like you said a Gibson Motorsport R32 GTR (in its current preserved form) would get hosed by the Boss 290 of Marcos Ambrose :)


Boss 290 you reckon !

[ben351]

nah the hp varries cos each team has a differnet set up ... they all arent identicle

[ReaperSS]

all the V8 supercars use the same 5L engine, prety stupid when the factory cars are 5.4L and 5.7L, this is to keep it "fair" they both put out 620hp

Dont they also run the same brand boxes and diffs ? Not like the old days of pretty much standard running gear gmh Vs ford

[ben351]

']Boss 290 you reckon !

fukc you know what i meant
the BA FALCON of marcos ambrose then .... happy ?

[vy ss ute m6]

im pretty sure they have to run the same brand of box and diff, again for equalities sake. most of this sorta crap changed when the AU got its ass handed to it back in 99-01, e.g. the AU's were allowed an extra "xx" mm on their front splitters and other bits like that to even the comp up.

i would say the GTR, in its "old" form without the new technology would probably not handle the job, but given the new tech, im sure it would fair well.

[ben351]

i been serachin for that marc ....
i think most of the old GTR lap records have been clocked by the V8s ... which would indicate they are gettin around the track quicker ..... i think Bathurst is still a GTR time but (once again correct me if im wrong)



my bad ... Murphy clocked new record last year i think ...

yeah the hp varies from like 610 - 650 depending on the teams setup

i think i read and article somewhere in 2004 that Ambrose had like 20hp more than Lowndes car cos of the different Stone Brothers setup

[ben351]

http://www.v8supercar.com.au/content/attachments/extranet/2005_ops_man/division_c_update_2/files/1722/2005%20Div%20C%20Update%202-Corrected%20%28pages%20only%29.pdf <---- Regulations of engines allowed

[Denver]

The R's where clocking bathurst in 2.14's back in the day

[Brockas]

Interesting debate. I think a more accurate comparison would be a current GT500 34 GT-R. Chances of a V8 supercar beating one of those, doughnuts...

[Twe12ve]

or a z-tune

[ben351]

Murphy etched his name in the record book with an astonishing lap of 2 minutes 06.8594 seconds to take pole position from yesterday afternoon's top-10 shootout.

There .... fukcing kiwis :p

[[2_FLY]]

One thing u should not is back in 92 the Gibson Motorsport GTR cost way in excess of 600,000 dollars to build, so as much as u one eyed fools here think it was a near stocker stickin it to the man think again. With weight penalties and boost restriction they made almost 600hp yet weighed nearly 1500kgs. New V8 supercars (although very undertyred = 8 inches wide) weigh less than 1400kgs and make in excess of 600hp on PUMP fuel

[ben351]

/\/\/\/\ ... I love this guy !!

[Twe12ve]

the GTR would be killed. these commodores are dedicated race cars built for the purpose. as much as you love jap cars it would get slaughtered. but its not a fair comparison. youd have to put up the V8s against the racing supras on Best Motoring etc.

[1JZNOSHIT]

JGTC is Japans equivalent to the V8 Supercars here right? Id like to see that match up.....

[ben351]

apples and pears really ...

[1JZNOSHIT]

its only common sense that a 13yr old GTR would get owned convincingly by a current day V8 supercar. Like comparing a R32 GTR to a R34 GTR or a VN CLubsport to VZ Clubsport.

[Brockas]

Exactly Matt, which is why I said I'd love to see a current model GT500 car vs ANY V8 supercar. That would be a fairer match up.

[1JZNOSHIT]

oh but that wouldnt be fair, because Japanese technology is 13yrs ahead of the Aussies!

[Mike_Hunt]

I think the supercars would have the edge by a reasonable amount but it wouldn't be by a massive margin.. put the gtr's back & give them a few seasons development & it would be very competitive... give them greasy conditions & they'd have the upper hand. As soon as they pissed the Group A rules off it took the monkey off the back of the local product which wasn't hot to begin with - let them put some decent hardware (still affordable though - watts linkage live rear end, h pattern box etc.) & you've got the decent race cars we've got today. If the ruling body threw cost limiting factors out the window you'd probably end up with cars resembling the JGTC or DTM stuff. Be interesting to see the JGTC stuff take on the supercars - less power but better chassis/suspension, imagine one around the mountain...

[TJ]

I think you underestimate how good those GTR's where for their time

Do you know how they tuned them ?

They put them in a weather room, set the atmospheric pressure to what they thought the race day would be like, and tuned them till it pinged, no motecs or crap like that, used the old bosch stuff if i recall correctly.

They where on pretty average rubber too. The biggest complaint for the drivers where that the cars where skatey to drive, because they never had the time to set them up right. Gibson had to pioneer every thing in those cars, they where quicker then the Japanese GTR's so they where useless to them.

There has been a decade of suspension, tyre, and general race car technology available to improve things.

Murphs 2.06.9 was only done after resurfacing work at bathurst.

If i had the cash id fund this, regardless of who won it would be an awesome comparison.

Id put my money on the GTR.

[1JZNOSHIT]

tj, the GTR in its hey day state, or with new technological advancements added?

I honesty cant see how the 1992 GTR in the setup of its time (1992) could hold up against a 2005 V8 Supercar.

Give the 92 GTR a 2005 spec' build up and it would be a different story....

[Twe12ve]

yeah its not just the current technology we are comparing - its current RACE technology. its silly to compare a care from 1992 to a Race tuned v8 supercar...

yeah the JGTC cars against the V8 supercars would be the fairer matchup

[ben351]

tom your saying a 13yr old car would win ??
everyone is entitled to there own opinion ... and heres mine ... thats retarded

Murphs lap is like 8 seconds faster ... like everyone is sayin its unfair to put a 13yr old car up against new technology ... yes the GT500 vs the V8 Supercar would be a far greater match up

[TJ]

']tj, the GTR in its hey day state, or with new technological advancements added?

I honesty cant see how the 1992 GTR in the setup of its time (1992) could hold up against a 2005 V8 Supercar.

Give the 92 GTR a 2005 spec' build up and it would be a different story....


Im saying R32 Gibson Motorsport GTR with 2006 tyres, fuel, tuning, and a race engineer setting it up right. I reckon it would keep a V8 "supercar" very honest :)

[Twe12ve]

its a pretty silly argument. its never going to happen..and even hypothetically its hard to imagine..

[1JZNOSHIT]

']Im saying R32 Gibson Motorsport GTR with 2006 tyres, fuel, tuning, and a race engineer setting it up right. I reckon it would keep a V8 "supercar" very honest :)

Listen here newbie, take your minimal 377 posts elsewhere :flipa:

but I do agree with what you said there, but as stated, the compassion will never come to life, im sure that GTR is locked up in a museum somewhere collecting dust....

[[2_FLY]]

I beleive u would find the fuel they used back then would be better than the control fuel they use now. Back then i`m pretty sure they used 10 inch rear and 9 inch front tyres too. Also bigger brakes than the current V8`s.

Also on the GT500 racers. Like comparing apples and oranges. Full carbon fibre shells with tube chassis and massive aerodynamic aids vs factory shells with floorpans, 8 inch control tyre, live axle rear end, with no ground effect aerodynamic aids. Its like comparing a superbike to a MOTO GP bike

[Joe]

More like comparing a tricycle found on a rubbish collection day in Serbia, to a Moto GP bike :D

[1JZNOSHIT]

for interest sake...

the 1992 Winfield GTR ran 18 x 10" wheels with 18" Yokohama slicks.

For 1992, CAMS imposed a 'pop off valve' to be screwed into the inlet manifold to limit boost to 1.3bar.

The engine made 336kw and 468nm of torque @ 1.3bar of boost and weighing in at 1500kg, all this to satisfy CAMS for the 1992 season.

However, they did extract 484kw with a full tune....

[TJ]

Ill give you a tricycle ****!

[Mike_Hunt]

They were a good thing at the time but I think you're forgetting the main thing that made them look so good was the competition they faced - Sierra's trying to put 500 hp plus through skinny little 8 odd inch tyres & throwing a leg out every 5 mins, commo's wheezing through carbies & the underpowered bimmers.. sure they took a little while to get right, I remember Skaife talking about the early days nailing hubs & all sorts of steering components but they were all over the set-up by the 2nd season -which is why they continued winning with less boost & more weight. The fact remains they were horribly expensive to build - I remember Skaife saying the seasons budget for a gtr was either equal to or more than the supercars up until about 2 or 3 years ago & even when they were punting around Bathurst with 650 odd hp they were still a couple seconds a lap slower than todays cars - hence my comment that back in with a couple seasons more development they could mix it & possibly succeed. Anyway here's an interesting read (interview with Skaife):

What was it really like to drive the Godzilla Nissan - were you just playing with the opposition?

They were bloody hard cars to drive. They were really big power machines, with smaller tyres than we have now, and no downforce. When they were handicapped they were 1500kg without driver or fuel.

They had very high grip level, but when they got away from you they took a hell of a lot of catching. They were difficult to get the best from. When Jim and I were competing, we were pushing the cars so hard.

At certain circuits with big fast corners, I thought we could be beaten. Eastern Creek was definitely not GTR territory. You were on the limit there.

And if it stepped out it was always going to be a big one.

One of the great things of that time was driving GTR in 1991 at full boost around Wellington. We had the wastegates blanked off, it had 650 horsepower and Emanuelle Pirro in a BMW M3 kept out-qualifying me.

We were just battling all day for pole. Up the back straight on full noise, you'd hit the left mirror on the fence turning in and the right mirror on the exit.

It was going so fast you couldn't control the car. Everything was happening bloody quick that day. It was an absolutely wild device.

[TJ]

One of the great things of that time was driving GTR in 1991 at full boost around Wellington. We had the wastegates blanked off, it had 650 horsepower and Emanuelle Pirro in a BMW M3 kept out-qualifying me.

We were just battling all day for pole. Up the back straight on full noise, you'd hit the left mirror on the fence turning in and the right mirror on the exit.

It was going so fast you couldn't control the car. Everything was happening bloody quick that day. It was an absolutely wild device.

How good is that!

[ben351]

didnt the walkinshaws give the gtr's c0ckwet ??

after i typed that i vomited a little in my mouth ....
*shudders* Walkinshaws :barf:

[Mike_Hunt]

Yeah Win Percy & Alan Grice won Bathurst in 1990 in the HRT plastic fantastic.

[McKVNT]

JGTC vs Supercars would be an awesome matchup as others have said..

I'm with TJ I think with current race technology you could get the GTR within the same range as the supercars

[zeroyon]

yeah the JGTC cars against the V8 supercars would be the fairer matchup

I am afraid you are very wrong.

Wayne Gardnier brought to Aus JGTC 300 car(yes 300hp) much much slower then the JGTC 500 cars.

He kinda smashed the all time lap record for the track he was on. Including V8 super cars. Just trying to remember what track it was, from memory it was QLD.

So I am afraid JGTC 500 cars vs V8 supercars would be an out and out slaughter. :bukkake:

[S_E]

']for interest sake...


For 1992, CAMS imposed a 'pop off valve' to be screwed into the inlet manifold to limit boost to 1.3bar.

The engine made 336kw and 468nm of torque @ 1.3bar of boost and weighing in at 1500kg, all this to satisfy CAMS for the 1992 season.

However, they did extract 484kw with a full tune....

There was in interveiw with Gibson in Zoom a year or two ago about the Nissan days.

CAMS needed a rig to test the 'pop off valves' (BOV used as overboost/control) and Gibson had one, absolutely accurate...to whatever they set it to!

They had lots of other things too, like a boost controller hidden inside a guage in the DR30 racecar (as only where allowed engine bay boost control)


It's the issue with a white JPC 300ZX on the cover, a very good read.

[TJ]

Yeah window wiper / boost controller

[SimonR32]

jgtc gt500 cars would smash a v8 car around a track

gibson motorsport r32 would be slower than a current v8 cause of the old tech in every part of the car

[Denver]

The brakes on a modern v8 super car are larger than the r32's ran

from memory they only ran a 4piston 330mm setup, where as now days the super ****ters run 350mm rotors and big 6 piston callipers, infatc if you go to the AP website, there is a specific catergory for v8 super car brakes

as has been pointed out, give it motern technology, and it'll be a very close race..

gotta take in all these various factors kids

theres been 13 years of brake, brake pad compound, and brake rotor development
13 yrs of tyre development
13 yrs of suspension development

also factor in that the super taxi come in at 1300kg? from memory, so a lot lighter, in real terms than the group A cars, they have such extensive roll cages compared to the older cars, the cage in my car is more extensive in fact, check some of the old footage etc of them there isn't a heck of a lot of cage there, and the more extensive the cage, stiffer you can make the car, and that all aids the handling and suspension

back in the day, gt-rs had MASSIVE issues, with brakes, and keeping them cool, those issues would be gone, and the various advancements would give them aleast another second or two, same goes for tyres..

if you where to add those factors into the times, of say a 2.14, and chop 4 seconds off for the advancements in those two areas, your down to a 2.10, thats now only 4 seconds away from murphs record, and i can guantee you, theres another 2-3 seconds in suspension and chasis strength there, only gotta find another second out of the motor, and power delivery etc...

if you look at it that way, its entirely possible to have a v8 supercar slaughtering using ****ter 89 cars as a basis

the v8 super car series is a joke, theres nothing super car about them, they all run pretty much identical setups underneath when it comes to suspension, drive line and motors, the only thing thats really different, is the external body shells..

and as someone else pointed out, wayne gardners gt300 car, shat on the old lakeside i think it was v8 sc record.. by a good 2-3 seconds

[Joe]

I'd like to see the V8 supercars with unlimited budgets and with more lenient rules....imagine seeing a GT500 style Commodore or Falcon? They'd probably be just as quick as the Jap ones..

[ben351]

yeah good point joe !!

come on tj ... have a word to perth PSC mag .... hook us up :p

[Joe]

A JGTC style XR6 turbo....imagine the possibilities!!

[vy ss ute m6]

the v8 super car series is a joke, theres nothing super car about them, they all run pretty much identical setups underneath when it comes to suspension, drive line and motors, the only thing thats really different, is the external body shells..


i dont think its a complete joke, it really narrows the competition down to simply a few seconds between the best and the worse teams. Unfortunately, all of the regulations seem to be brought in to basically raise the interest for the spectators (which in no means is a wrong thing to do).

The problem with unlimited budgets/technology in that particular series would mean that a similar effect, that Ferrai held on F1, would show. The biggest corporate team would always win. Maybe its an idea for a new series, but its nice to see that every year, every team has a fairly good shot at events such as Bathurst. But as said above, I would also like to see a 'unlimited' series, where the possibilities, it seems, would be endless. 427 Monaros running against stroked and mega-boosted XR6 turbos would be rather nice to watch:D

[Twe12ve]

THIS godzilla would win.

http://www.tweenierob.co.uk/skyline/totbron.wmv

from TOTB in UAE. 10.09 @ 240kph - and godDAMN check out that launch....

[Jazza]

2 things i looked at like wtf there, he gets off the brake to do the burnout (juding by tail lights..), and its only the rear's spinning on a GTR but apprears 4wd again on launch (4wd controller?)
Either way thats awsome :D
I think a 34 R tuned up to the extent of those v8s and the 34 with awd/altezza etc technologies would wipe the floor with these v8s, i mean just look at when they race in the wet, they simply shift when they spin while an awd would b much happier in the wet.
Id loveeeee to see an XR6 Turbo mega modified for that kind of racing aswell... that would be a sight to see!! :)

[RB20ZED]

the closest series to the v8 in the world is the NASCAR series they run similar body setups to what we have over here. If ya want wild cars and racing just watch the super sports classes they are crazy...

[TJ]

No they are not Clint

Nascar and V8's are nothing alike.

[[2_FLY]]

Carby 350`s vs Injected 305`s
Sillouhette tube frame car vs Caged factory shells
4sp manual vs 6 spd manual
Supercars dont race around ovals either

[nice j]

lmao at nascar is like the superv8's remark

[Evo Stevo]

old school gtr would struggle for sure!

But GT500 GTR would make a V8 Supercar look so GAY! WITHOUTA DOUBT!

[nice j]

best motoring vids mines tuned 34 gtr, the drivers say its acceleration is quicker than the gt500 cars...
thats just insane
one of them would make the supers piss moite

[Twe12ve]

2 things i looked at like wtf there, he gets off the brake to do the burnout (juding by tail lights..), and its only the rear's spinning on a GTR but apprears 4wd again on launch (4wd controller?)
Either way thats awsome :D


1) i actually dont know how you can do a burnout without using brakes..if anyone can tell me (the car is STILL) id like to know
2) First time ive seen a street car actually leave Burning Rubber after a launch.
3) did you see the car shake when it came onto boost...
4) and he still ran a flat 10....@ 240kph..

5) Best street car GTR 1/4 ive ever seen..

[[2_FLY]]

Its called a line locker you apply the brakes, flick the switch and solenoids hold the brake line pressure so u can use both feet for pedal work. Nail the throttle, drop clutch and when ur done you fick the switch off and roll forward.