13B Swaps into non rotor vehicles

[Brett_J]

Ok, throwing some ideas around, who's done it?
How hard is it?
Stock gearbox strength - S4/5 etc ?

[Buckets]

First up I'll say you're barking mad but...

It's a small enough motor that it'll fit in just about anything especially if it's N/A. Depending on what you want to put it in you may find there's a kit to make the conversion easier for more popular applications.

The boxes aren't that tough and have issues with 3rd gear shitting the tin if you're running over ~500nm through them which all jokes aside isn't too hard with a 450-500+hp turbo motor. N/A and there's no dramas. You can always try the RX8 6 speed box as well as it's tougher than the 5 speed and while it's not as cheap it's still an affordable option.

[Brett_J]

It'll be a turbo for sure.
Probably no more expensive than crack heads want for 25 boxes.

It'll piss of enthusiasts on both sides :)

[Buckets]

It'll piss of enthusiasts on both sides :)

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/94/Mazda-ROADPACER_01.JPG/800px-Mazda-ROADPACER_01.JPG

Take one Kingswood, add rotor. Confuse Trev's when it brap's not slaps. Mazda have shown it can be done already. :p
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazda_Roadpacer_AP

[Brett_J]

Saw a Roadpacer at the drags years ago, ripped off a sweet 19 second pass, the owner also had a weird jap spec VQ Stato as well.

[Dzenci]

One of the auto sparkies from my work is about 80% through his VL rotor project, different none the less.

[SSICK]

http://antilag.com/forums/showthread.php?62908-Minitrucks-Suck&highlight=slodeo

[mr_rotary]

You can always try the RX8 6 speed box as well as it's tougher than the 5 speed and while it's not as cheap it's still an affordable option. The Aisin 6 speed is NOT tougher than the 5 speed. It's the same gearbox as the S15, S2000, MX-5 and a couple of others. Both 5 and 6 speed are good for about 400 - 450 hp if your easy on them.

[Brett_J]

The Aisin 6 speed is NOT tougher than the 5 speed. It's the same gearbox as the S15, S2000, MX-5 and a couple of others. Both 5 and 6 speed are good for about 400 - 450 hp if your easy on them.

So start looking for a stronger gearset is what you're saying.

[Buckets]

T56 are a cheap bullet proof option widely used in the rotor community. Just remember that the trans will be higher than you expect as the eccentric shaft sits higher than a crankshaft more often than not.

[Brett_J]

T56 are a cheap bullet proof option widely used in the rotor community. Just remember that the trans will be higher than you expect as the eccentric shaft sits higher than a crankshaft more often than not.

Sweet, given the length of the motor, bringing it towards the front of the car for tunnel clearance shouldn't throw the weight off too much considering the original engine.
That and some tunnel massaging :)

[mr_rotary]

So start looking for a stronger gearset is what you're saying.
Yes but then your looking at $$$ for only what is only a slightly stronger gearbox. T56 is the better way to go but of course larger as already mentioned.

[patty]

Tko tremec boxs are what I'll be looking at when I save up some money $$. But for now I have 2 spare stock boxes haha

[Brett_J]

Good to know, having a fair bit of Fabrication experience I could always do it properly and make the tunnel bigger :)

[ED40]

Tko tremec boxs are what I'll be looking at when I save up some money $$. But for now I have 2 spare stock boxes haha]
Trust me, dont buy one.

[mr_mike]

Saw a Roadpacer at the drags years ago, ripped off a sweet 19 second pass, the owner also had a weird jap spec VQ Stato as well.

I remember seeing that at the drags, probably the same run. Was less than impressive.

[mr_mike]

Used to be a couple 13Bt Geminis kicking about Perth all legal and engineered from what I was told. Also as mentioned the Rodeo ute.
Really you would want to drop the motor in something small, light and RWD or it completely defeats the purpose. Mid 80's Jap car? 70's aussie sedan? There isnt many great options really. Or should say there isnt that many options that have good conditions vehicles readily available still that people dont want crack money for.

[Brett_J]

Do you know what a HR31 is?

[adrenalin]

quite common in e30s

[Buckets]

Do you know what a HR31 is?
Yesssssssss !

That is deeeluxe !

[MrSparkle]

13bt hr31 has got fail written all over it.

Rb25 or bust. Its going to be cheaper easier and theres no bs with adapter plates to fit a decent gearbox. Or custom work to fit the engine in the first place. Easily make 400rwhp on petrol and 500rwhp on e85. They are cheap enough, more reliable, easier to bolt in plenty of support and spare parts. Rotors sound shit and RB's sound awesome plus you basically killed any hope of reasonable resale by doing a dumbass conversion.

I'm sorry to sound like a dick but it will be obvious to you in a week or so once you have though about it. Also Sean ghostfc3s or similar username has a hr31 4door with an rb25 and box with a power fc, twin plate, bigger injectors, cooler, some bolt on turbo from china setup used to make 350rwhp for sale for like $3500 unreg but we have had it running. You could buy that car and have the bulk of yours done in just a few weekends.

[phatboy]

]
Trust me, dont buy one.
Are you talking TR6060 from FG's or something else?

[Tocchi]

Are you talking TR6060 from FG's or something else?
nope different box again.
Tremec TKO500 and such i believe he is talking about.

The FG TR6060 is a weak pieceofshit gearbox, well the synchros are ... killed 1st, 2nd, and 4th synchros ... triple synchros on gears my ass.
doing tarmac rallies with no 2nd was interesting as Milhouse & i found out

[phatboy]

The FG TR6060 is a weak pieceofshit gearbox

would you recommend a Toyo V16* instead?

[Buckets]

LOL at rotors sounding shit.

[Brett_J]

13bt hr31 has got fail written all over it.

Rb25 or bust. Its going to be cheaper easier and theres no bs with adapter plates to fit a decent gearbox. Or custom work to fit the engine in the first place. Easily make 400rwhp on petrol and 500rwhp on e85. They are cheap enough, more reliable, easier to bolt in plenty of support and spare parts. Rotors sound shit and RB's sound awesome plus you basically killed any hope of reasonable resale by doing a dumbass conversion.

I'm sorry to sound like a dick but it will be obvious to you in a week or so once you have though about it. Also Sean ghostfc3s or similar username has a hr31 4door with an rb25 and box with a power fc, twin plate, bigger injectors, cooler, some bolt on turbo from china setup used to make 350rwhp for sale for like $3500 unreg but we have had it running. You could buy that car and have the bulk of yours done in just a few weekends.

LOL, Tell me what you really think !

The car has sat around because I never wanted to do easy with it, easy would be bolting a big pile of stuff to the 20 in there and running it on E85 and having a reliable 400hp all day long, and with the weight of the car, it would have been quick.

Resale has never been a goal, if it was I wouldn't have stripped half the interior and thrown it down the tip.

Whatever happens to it, it won't be something done in a few weekends, to me, that takes away what I want as a car. I want something people get outright upset over and carry on about how going traditional would have been easier etc. Which just saying i'm interested in this route already has.

I have a fair few years fabrication experience, mixed in with many years as a mechanic, so whatever I do, will be utilising this skill set. I love nothing more than cutting/grinding/welding and seeing the end results. I also love the idea of a non traditional engine going in that the hardcore fans get emotional over.

A rotor can be easily reliable, a goodly sized turbo with good internals and tune with E85 and I'll have fun power, sure it'll be power I can easily get from the traditional method, but once again, it's not what this car is about.

I like the sound of a Rotor on full noise, to me it sounds mint. the crisp rasp mixed with turbo spool is no less enjoyable to hear for me than hearing a Old school angry V8 or a straight 6 with gate going hard.

Whatever I choose to do, it'll be different regardless, so people will get shitty regardless :)

[Skitzo]

Not much can beat the sound of an NA quad rotor.

[Tocchi]

Whatever I choose to do, it'll be different regardless, so people will get shitty regardless :)

In that case ... Pull a 13B out of an FC/FD for the HR31, put an LS1 in the FC/FD ... Jon and Mark.G will get their rags on bigtime

[phatboy]

LOL at rotors sounding shit.

uuum, what the the fuck would you know?

[masTers]

It's a 31, it's not going to play fair no matter if you go a traditional route or not.

[S133LTR]

Put a Barra/2jz motor in it.. it will upset people and be a conversion that actually works.

[masTers]

There was a mint 2J 31 on Speedhunters last month.

I think a Toyota box is as expense as a RB25 box but? Which seems to be Brett's sticking point?

[S133LTR]

500+hp manual box anything reliable is going to be worth dollars

[Skitzo]

There was a mint 2J 31 on Speedhunters last month.


This rig is COOL AS ICE ICE BABY
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/11665531_949508445079403_1153740294680279600_n.jpg ?oh=20c6dc2956a2e4d47042c4da96f98231&oe=56AE03D2&__gda__=1458086243_67fedb43cc72968ae46114c4a26431b a

http://41.media.tumblr.com/a93fbcc5b7d4dfda567f657aeaa583b2/tumblr_nsjhbo8GLI1qcegdno1_1280.jpg

[200MPH]

OK, confession up first. I'm a rotorholic. However pretty much any other engine makes more sense. But there is too much sense in the world as it is, well, perhaps just some.

Since you want to rotor the R31 Coupe (which to mine are getting cooler the older they and I get), can you be pressured into making it go very hard and sound extra nice? By which I mean 20B with GT42 or whatever. 15 psi into that and you're gone and/or hazing. And the sound....
Go the T56 trans too. Great close ratios and tough enough.

R26B >> RB26. Not a relevant comparison, I know, so don't start...

[S133LTR]

This rig is COOL AS ICE ICE BABY
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/11665531_949508445079403_1153740294680279600_n.jpg ?oh=20c6dc2956a2e4d47042c4da96f98231&oe=56AE03D2&__gda__=1458086243_67fedb43cc72968ae46114c4a26431b a

http://41.media.tumblr.com/a93fbcc5b7d4dfda567f657aeaa583b2/tumblr_nsjhbo8GLI1qcegdno1_1280.jpg

Shit motor shit rims

[esky]

neo 25, headstuds, pon cams, gtx42 or say 6870 or something around that size....750+rwhp.

So much easier and it'll work.

[Yakky Bear]

Not much can beat the sound of an NA quad rotor.

Why this is true, massive dollars to build one.

[cactus]

Why this is true, massive dollars to build one.

I'm not sure why this is true.

[MrSparkle]

LOL, Tell me what you really think !


You seem like a straight up kind of person so I figured you could take it without having a sad. I dont doubt that you could do it. Its just lots of time and money and imo no big gains to be had there. There really is something to be said for keeping it simple.

[Ben Wha]

You know what you should do... put a 13b into an R31

[Buckets]

You know what you should do... put a 13b into an R31

Someone in NZ decided to bin the RB rubbish and insert triangles in to a 32R. Proves the concept isn't un-achievable at least.

https://rotarypowercrew.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/dsc_0050.jpg?w=1272

https://rotarypowercrew.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/dsc_0094.jpg?w=1272

https://rotarypowercrew.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/dsc_0085.jpg?w=1272

If you wanted to do something even more left field and even more obnoxious a supercharged 13B bridgeport would be awesome in something like a 31. F/I power & torque without the turbo getting in the way of excessive noise generation.

[Shnoog]

Even if it does show the swap is possible it gives no answer on how well it works. That car could be only taken out to car shows and the weekends for wank factor to showcase what a workshop is capable of.

[Brett_J]

Even if it does show the swap is possible it gives no answer on how well it works. That car could be only taken out to car shows and the weekends for wank factor to showcase what a workshop is capable of.

In what regard wouldn't it work?

[Shnoog]

What i meant is driving a car around the street and beating on it at the track are totally different things. It looks nice sitting there with all its polished bits and pieces but you have no idea what the weakest link is on that setup from a picture.

Unless you talk to the people who built that car you have no idea of the problems and setbacks something like that had to get to that point.
When i did my ls swap it looks like it's a straight forward swap but i had my fare share of random bs problems that i don't talk about or share unless someone specifically asks me. Most of them never cropped up until i started driving the car hard as well.

There's a reason workshops tend to use the same recipes over and over with customer cars and not experiment with wild drive line swaps. They know it works and its easy.

If you want the car just for wank factor or to prove to yourself what you are capable of, sure anything's possible with enough bulk cash dumped into it.

[Kaido]

Lol... love people saying "shit idea" "won't work" "no big gains to be had",

his car, his money! Looking forward to seeing the build dirty rotor in a r31 is a good mix

also how can you not love this sound! BRAP BRAP BRAP!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCAdiWyzfec

[Brett_J]

There's a reason workshops tend to use the same recipes over and over with customer cars and not experiment with wild drive line swaps. They know it works and its easy.



Really, that's the reason ?
Nothing to do with the customer not wanting to pay a lot for the exact reason you're stating, it's bullshit trial and error. Any workshop will do something if someone throws the coin at them.

I'm not doing it for wank factor anyway, like I'd dump hours of work/cash into something for the wank factor. I'm considering it, I never stated it was a done deal either, I'm considering it for the reasons I mentioned earlier, I love different, I love challenging myself and I love the sound of the Rotary, I have lots of other reasons as well, but also why not? Because lazy guys on a forum wouldn't do it because it's too hard?

I have the luxury of time, mechanical and fabrication experience, so why not have a crack, it's not like it's not reversible :)

[Shnoog]

I just hope you understand that even the simplest drive line swaps aren't simple especially if you are doing everything yourself and hardly anyone has done it before in your specific application.

I'm not trying to dissuade you at all. If you think you can do it go ahead.
If you were really set on doing the swap you wouldn't be asking for peoples opinions on a forum. You'd just go ahead and start.

[Brett_J]

I just hope you understand that even the simplest drive line swaps aren't simple especially if you are doing everything yourself and hardly anyone has done it before in your specific application.

I'm not trying to dissuade you at all. If you think you can do it go ahead.
If you were really set on doing the swap you wouldn't be asking for peoples opinions on a forum. You'd just go ahead and start.

Main reasons for asking was if anyone had done it, things to look for, which I got a few tips, which is handy.

In the end if I do it and I fail, you all get to sit back and laugh and say I told you so, which is more what this forum is about :)

[S133LTR]

Best off just getting it done and dishing out some chop rather than asking everyone's opinion then.

[Tocchi]

positive note, at least you have no hair to lose from stress with this conversion

[MrSparkle]

Main reasons for asking was if anyone had done it, things to look for, which I got a few tips, which is handy.

In the end if I do it and I fail, you all get to sit back and laugh and say I told you so, which is more what this forum is about :)

Please dont interpret what i said as willing you to fail. Its more asking yourself will you be happy with the finished product at the end of it. After the money is spent and the time taken to complete and the ten times the plan changed along the way. My suggestion was going to be less expensive easier and the result is easily as good as what you are hoping for. You just have to decide if its what you want. I don't want a forum full of ppl saying yeah yeah go ahead without someone else putting it in perspective.

[Tre-Cool]

just drop an ls into it.

:-p

[skidkid]

High comp NA LS motor revving to 8k would be mint!

[c.rusli]

Best off just getting it done and dishing out some chop rather than asking everyone's opinion then.

exactly what I did to my own "project" car, and im still think to my self how stupid the idea was.
I have walked the path of no returning and soldier on...

[skidkid]

http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/4-8l-crank-ls3-block-how-to-build-an-8000-rpm-ls-stroker/

[Brett_J]

LS 31 been done:)
Whatever way I go it will after the wedding/honeymoon, so around April.
It'll be fun regardless .

[mr_mike]

FG Barra motor, reliable, powerful and unique.

[huggy_b]

High comp NA LS motor revving to 8k would be mint!

Sounds like someone should be taking more of his own advice?