Judge threw the book at me for speeding, any advice?

[ONETEN]

Hi Guys,

I have seen a fair few threads on here about this sort of thing and am wondering if anyone has had a similar experience or advice as to what my best option is.

In short - I have 2 speeding offences in the last 3 years, both for 10-19km/h bracket so $15 and 2 points, but sadly one was in double demerits. This leaves me with 6 demerits on my license.

In March this year while driving to work in Gin Gin, half asleep at 7:30am, I came out of an unrestricted zone on Muchea South road, spotted this white falcon half out of the bush looking like he was going to turn onto the road in front of me, so full attention was locked onto him, totally did not pay attention to the speed zone changes from unrestricted to 90 then 60 (which occurs in a 250m stretch of road) before I realized it was an unmarked cop car.
Ended up getting done at 102km/h in the 60 zone (he was just past the 60 sign), but he issued the fine for 100km/h in the 60, so a $700 fine and 5 demerits.

Pretty shitty morning for what was a momentary lapse of concentration to the signage.

Anyway, I operate a small IT business and do HEAPS of driving so my license is pretty necessary for earning an income, so elected to take the matter to court. Once I was issued with court papers, I found out the hearing would be in Moora, which being 2 hours from home was not ideal with work. After ringing I was told I could only have the hearing location rescheduled by the judge on the day, or submit my plea in writing. I did the latter, and wrote a pretty substantial letter which I think made my point regarding the super harsh punishment and license for work etc pretty clearly and fairly, accepted I did the wrong thing and would need some form of reprimand, but obviously the judge gave no fucks as the conviction came back with a $1000 fine, $146 in costs and still 5 demerits.

Needless to say, I was not expecting an increase on the fine, I don't think my record even comes close to warranting that, first time I have sped this much over the limit and it was on a deserted country road at 7:30am. Not many kids around to kill or families to head-on with. I'm thinking the judge just didn't give a shit about my letter and thought "screw this guy, doesn't even turn up", which would be dumb seeing as they clearly give you the option to plea by writing, but I just don't understand otherwise.

So I am wondering what I should do now, I see my options as:

1) Suck it up, pay the fine, and drive around with my ring clenched tight onto my 1 remaining point for 2 years
2) Appeal the decision (not even sure if I can?) and represent myself at the potential risk of no change and even more money wasted
3) Get a lawyer involved (Jeremy noble?), but scared of what this can cost and again the risk of no change in conviction, more court costs and lawyer costs.

Any words of advice?
I'm pretty annoyed at this whole thing, I don't feel like this is a fair and just punishment, especially seeing as I generally drive quite responsibly and have the whole small business thing in the equation. Crazy that you can pretty much drive down the road and give mr plod a brand new 50" LCD TV by not paying attention to speed for 15 seconds.

Cheers,
Hayden

[thommo]

Don't break the law.

Should have slowed down if you thought a car half in the bushes was going to pull out infront of your vehicle

[XAZ166]

1) Attend the court in person. Apply on a Form 6 (Criminal Procedures Act) for the Magistrate to vacate his decision and set another trial date. You will have to give the prosecution 14 days notice. They will advise you of when that court will sit.

2) Attend that day and plea your case. Will go either way.

3) If you are successful then you will need to attend the third time to contest your speeding ticket. You cannot do it in writing. Prosecutor and Magistrate cannot cross examine a piece of paper.

4) If you fail then there are any number of senior counsel in Perth who will assist you to overturn the Magistrates decision in the Supreme Court. Single Judge will start at about $8000.00 per day. Full Bench around $12,000 per day. Not guaranteed this will work either.

[ONETEN]

Don't break the law.

Should have slowed down if you thought a car half in the bushes was going to pull out infront of your vehicle

No shit, right?

If only human's never made mistakes on the road, just imagine - there would be no accidents, no one losing a loved one or people seriously injured, negating the need for traffic offences in the first place. It's almost paradoxical just thinking about it.

Now back to the question at hand, if that's OK.


1) Attend the court in person. Apply on a Form 6 (Criminal Procedures Act) for the Magistrate to vacate his decision and set another trial date. You will have to give the prosecution 14 days notice. They will advise you of when that court will sit.

2) Attend that day and plea your case. Will go either way.

3) If you are successful then you will need to attend the third time to contest your speeding ticket. You cannot do it in writing. Prosecutor and Magistrate cannot cross examine a piece of paper.

4) If you fail then there are any number of senior counsel in Perth who will assist you to overturn the Magistrates decision in the Supreme Court. Single Judge will start at about $8000.00 per day. Full Bench around $12,000 per day. Not guaranteed this will work either.

Thanks for the info mate. Sounds like trying to fight it is not going to be worth while if this is the case...

[XAZ166]

First three will cost you nothing but time. Worth a shot.

[SSICK]

XAZ166 - is that your badge number officer?

[S85FI]

Too late. You wrote in and admitted your guilt.
The fine on the side of the road is a modified penalty. In your favour. When you take it to court its no longer a modified penalty. The judge will work off a schedule of fees pluse court fees and cost. Points stay the same.
The other problem you have is now you may have a conviction. You lost your court case. Do your self a police clearance.

[huggy_b]

Not sure why you contested it citing "needing a license to run a small business" - you weren't losing your license were you? And even then, if you lost it due to points you have the option of double or nothing to allow you to continue driving.
And to my knowledge, if you are going to use the good driving record defense you need like 5/7/10 years of clean driving, not one with 2 infringements in the last 3 years (not matter how minor they are).

If it was me, I'd suck it up and cop the fine. Good luck with whatever you do.

[TJ]

x2 Huggy.

Case closed.

[dmanvan]

Too late. You wrote in and admitted your guilt.
The fine on the side of the road is a modified penalty. In your favour. When you take it to court its no longer a modified penalty. The judge will work off a schedule of fees pluse court fees and cost. Points stay the same.
The other problem you have is now you may have a conviction. You lost your court case. Do your self a police clearance. +1 .. NEVER NEVER ADMIT ANYTHING..... especially not in writing ... police give no-thucks about worded letters and especially not in an instance where you contested a fine that you said you were guilty at but didn't want to get it... ! and that said fine wouldn't have let to you losing your licence anyway.

If you hadn't admitted guilt you may have been able to buy yourself some more time as initially you only have to plea, then they have to set date, witnesses etc. I have been able to stretch it to anywhere from 6-9 months in which some instances you may get some other points back. And any new points don't go on licence until the fine is upheld/paid. so win/win sometimes even if you lose.

If you had not written the letter you may have been able to show that your reading was outside the 60 speed zone and thus valid or interference from other opjects caused your speed to read higher (but for either of this to work you would have had to have been adamant on the side of the road and later that you weren't speeding and had seen the sign and slowed. This would depend upon what radar/laser device they were using (but you would get all this info once elected to go to court and pleaded NOT GUILTY.

I know of a lot of instances from my researching where police will fine people for speeding in a given speed zone even though the reading on their device was for the higher speedzone (i.e distance from their location to speeding vehicle, as laser measures speed and Distance from device), however once you admit (when they pull you over) that you were speeding, everything else is secondary and your stuffed.

speed zone changes is easy money for the revenue raisers...

[kurbn]

suck it up. people manage to do double or nothing. Don't speed and you have nothing to worry about.

[mys1]

LOL

Cleff notes - for those not willing to read or have decided TL : DR

Breaks law,
Loses lots of point
Not actually about to lose licence
Contests fine by admitting guilt but asking to be let off because you need licence for work?
Gets stung with more money
And a traffic conviction
Now wants advice

OP is fucked

LOL

[c.rusli]

Take the Bite, Less problems.
Live with 1 point, if you lost that take the Double or Nothing Scenario. for another extra years and you get your point back.

Drive under the Speed limit, and behave your self.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but I think its the best way.

[siladee]

Go and get another speeding fine, live on one point (double or nothing) for one year not 2, or worse if you get done with only 3-4 months left and it turns into 3 years!

[_S9_]

Cop it on the chin.

Clench your butthole on 1 point and be a good driver for 2 years.

Heaps of us here have done it before.

Pussy.

[mARC]

LOL

Cleff notes - for those not willing to read or have decided TL : DR

Breaks law,
Loses lots of point
Not actually about to lose licence
Contests fine by admitting guilt but asking to be let off because you need licence for work?
Gets stung with more money
And a traffic conviction
Now wants advice

OP is fucked

LOL

Adding gets stung with prepayment of 2014 budget deficit levy with no offset.

[SimonR32]

http://cdn.alltheragefaces.com/img/faces/large/misc-jackie-chan-l.png

[TJ]

I did 2 years and 11 months with 1 point.

Then got a 1 point fine

Didn't pay it on time
and again

By then all points were good. Good old days.

[ONETEN]

Thanks for the info guys. Pretty much sums up what I was thinking: a) that I'm screwed and b) don't become a lawyer anytime soon.


Not sure why you contested it citing "needing a license to run a small business" - you weren't losing your license were you? And even then, if you lost it due to points you have the option of double or nothing to allow you to continue driving.
And to my knowledge, if you are going to use the good driving record defense you need like 5/7/10 years of clean driving, not one with 2 infringements in the last 3 years (not matter how minor they are).

If it was me, I'd suck it up and cop the fine. Good luck with whatever you do.

Nah not losing license, just worried about having to survive on 1 point for 2 years until I get some back.


+1 .. NEVER NEVER ADMIT ANYTHING..... especially not in writing ... police give no-thucks about worded letters and especially not in an instance where you contested a fine that you said you were guilty at but didn't want to get it... ! and that said fine wouldn't have let to you losing your licence anyway.

If you hadn't admitted guilt you may have been able to buy yourself some more time as initially you only have to plea, then they have to set date, witnesses etc. I have been able to stretch it to anywhere from 6-9 months in which some instances you may get some other points back. And any new points don't go on licence until the fine is upheld/paid.

This is the sort of advice I probably should have seeked before I tried to play lawyer and ignorantly pled my case to the judge thinking he might make an empathetic decision. Lol. Lesson learned I guess. I did do the wrong thing, but just thought the judge may agree the punishment was a bit full on. Won't be trying that again ;)


Take the Bite, Less problems.
Live with 1 point, if you lost that take the Double or Nothing Scenario. for another extra years and you get your point back.

Drive under the Speed limit, and behave your self.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but I think its the best way.

Yeah, just wish I had reached this resolve before agreeing to buy the "system" a PS4 to go with the nice LCD tv I was already getting them.

Cheers,
Hayden

[Brett_J]

Get caught speeding again, lose your license, get it back in 3 months with full points.
Or that's the way it used to work.

Catch a bus or get an extraordinary for work.

[DISTRBD]

LOL all I can say is SUCKED IN :D

[huggy_b]

Get caught speeding again, lose your license, get it back in 3 months with full points.
Or that's the way it used to work.

Catch a bus or get an extraordinary for work.

Cant get an extraordinary for loss of points anymore - only for court imposed disqulaification and pissy driving. Its been replaced with the double or nothing program.

[ReaperSS]

Get caught speeding again, lose your license, get it back in 3 months with full points.
Or that's the way it used to work.

.

Haha thats what i used to do.... plan a time whee i could go without a car for 3 months then do my best to get a 1 point fine. Always ended up getting a 3 point and yellow sticker for being a dumb ass but least i had bulk points to last me. I have lost my licence 6 times and that was all in the space of 8 yrs lol

[Janey Waney Toot Toot]

Cop it on the chin. Maybe hit up the forum sponsor Audio Precision for a radar detector?

[kurbn]

its hard to get extraordinary regardless these days. I wanted one for my monthly hospital appointments as my partner was taking me and she was having to take time off work. Turns out they abolished any law that causes hardship/inconvenience for anyone else having to run you around.
So because I COULD get there. They didnt care how because I was currently still making the appointments. I was also a fitter at the time and the only
one at the workshop. I needed to be able to test drive vehicles after suspension work and diagnose issues. Zero fucks given by the courts. And that waswith having a clean record for years with no points to my name.

dont know how the fuck I see so many E's down stock road. Wonder what reason people are using to get accepted for one...

[-Luke-]

LOL all I can say is SUCKED IN :D

What a pingpingpingping :p

[DISTRBD]

its hard to get extraordinary regardless these days. I wanted one for my monthly hospital appointments as my partner was taking me and she was having to take time off work. Turns out they abolished any law that causes hardship/inconvenience for anyone else having to run you around.
So because I COULD get there. They didnt care how because I was currently still making the appointments. I was also a fitter at the time and the only
one at the workshop. I needed to be able to test drive vehicles after suspension work and diagnose issues. Zero fucks given by the courts. And that waswith having a clean record for years with no points to my name.

dont know how the fuck I see so many E's down stock road. Wonder what reason people are using to get accepted for one...


Friend just got her E last week as she needed to take her son to daycare , single working mum . 7.30am to 4.30am mon-fri ..


What a pingpingpingping :p


Thanks :)

[Jumanji]

Cant get an extraordinary for loss of points anymore - only for court imposed disqulaification and pissy driving. Its been replaced with the double or nothing program.

I like this Governments logic. It seems to work that one out well

[ONETEN]

Yeah seems crazy to me you can get an E license for drunk driving but not loss of points... I mean the law in in agreement with me in saying that it is a lot worse, seeing as its a criminal offence and all.

If I were a judge I would be more inclined to deny the drunk drivers any sort of second chance, but you hear a lot of how easy some of them get off.

I personally have been witness to two pretty horrific crashes where both times the driver was wasted. Both times only involving themselves luckily, 1st time a dude in his Dad's magna raced through maccas drive thru and ripped the handbrake on the exit trying to slide into the exit lane, way too much speed and oversteered out of the corner into the trees against the fenceline and tipped the car on its side. Had to climb out sunroof.
2nd time a couple of dimwitted fellas failed to negotiate either side the median at the RAB at end of Beechboro road and stacked their L series subaru into the light pole in the middle of it. Car was totalled, they were lucky to walk.

Both probably got off with less than $1200 in fines :P

[DISTRBD]

Yeah seems crazy to me you can get an E license for drunk driving but not loss of points... I mean the law in in agreement with me in saying that it is a lot worse, seeing as its a criminal offence and all.

If I were a judge I would be more inclined to deny the drunk drivers any sort of second chance, but you hear a lot of how easy some of them get off.

Bunbury magistrate declined 6 guys before my friend that had been done for pissy , she was done for 130 in 80 zone on the outskirts of bunno .

[kurbn]

I was done 128 in an 80 zone with no one round.. however No E plates given and treated like I murdered a village. Must need to be single.

[dmanvan]

I was done 128 in an 80 zone with no one round.. however No E plates given and treated like I murdered a village. Must need to be single. single nephew of rolfH and 15 kids to support :eek:

[huggy_b]

For my BIL (speeding) we had to write him a letter as his employer stating he needed his license for work. You can't just get it straight away either, you have to wait a certain period after your disqualification to apply for it. Then there are a fair number of conditions imposed (6am - 6pm only, 70km radius from his home address, log book to fill out etc) - they aren't easy to get.....to be honest that was the misconception I had before having to deal with the system.

[Brockas]

Bunbury magistrate declined 6 guys before my friend that had been done for pissy , she was done for 130 in 80 zone on the outskirts of bunno .
Good.

I'd much rather be around someone who's speeding while attentive and alert, than someone who's obeying the speed limit while blind drunk.

[DISTRBD]

Good.

I'd much rather be around someone who's speeding while attentive and alert, than someone who's obeying the speed limit while blind drunk.

LOL @ attentive n alert , she did a piss weak job of that as she didn't notice the limit was dropped to 80 on that stretch , was 100 :P

[Brockas]

LOL @ attentive n alert , she did a piss weak job of that as she didn't notice the limit was dropped to 80 on that stretch , was 100 :P
Inattention is now the #1 killer on our roads according to the RAC. It goes without saying that someone who isn't attentive is a danger.

[kurbn]

For my BIL (speeding) we had to write him a letter as his employer stating he needed his license for work. You can't just get it straight away either, you have to wait a certain period after your disqualification to apply for it. Then there are a fair number of conditions imposed (6am - 6pm only, 70km radius from his home address, log book to fill out etc) - they aren't easy to get.....to be honest that was the misconception I had before having to deal with the system.

Had to wait 30 days after the suspension to apply for it. I had a letter from my employer saying I needed it, letter from the hospital, times were stated during work hours only and test track was literally around the block & for the 1 hour return transport time to fremantle hosp once a month. All of which I never applied to use it to get to and from work. I Still planned on catching
public transport. Still denied. Think it depends on how the mood of the magistrate is. I certainly showed remorse and didn't try being a smart ass.

like you say.. people say just go get your E plates.. you find its not that easy when the time comes.

[Tsunamix]

They are not judges, they are magistrates.

Judges need legal training, Magistrates need legal familiarity.

You can always appeal, and go before a proper circuit court judge, and plead for leniency.

Magistrates do not need to justify their decisions. They can at any time discount your testimony, and say they believe the Cops over you. Judges Can NOT.

At this point, you are still innocent, until you accept the judgement handed down against you, or until the High court of Australia finds against you.

I've personally gone to court, for a situation where a speed limit dropped from 90-60, but the sign was behind a Bloody AMBULANCE with it's flashing lights on. When I pointed this out to the magistrate he asked'why didn't you slow down anyway?'. I asked him if he WANTED me to have an accident? he got pissy and started to try and reprimane me. I responded and said doing the unpredictable has unpredictable results. It's the predictable and unchanging that is safest.

He disagreed and fined me.

I went to the local supreme court and challenged his judgement and won.

You have to make your own decision as to whether it's worth it or not.

[mys1]

What Judge would overturn the decision?

He admitted to speeding - but wanted it reduced/written off on the case of "he is a nice guy"

OP - Whilst a good sport so far at replys in thread - does not stand a chance in a court of law

[ONETEN]

What Judge would overturn the decision?

He admitted to speeding - but wanted it reduced/written off on the case of "he is a nice guy"

OP - Whilst a good sport so far at replys in thread - does not stand a chance in a court of law

Not so much a question of "what judge" for me, but rather is it worth it. 3 odd days off work is worth more in $$ than the $1200 fine, as annoying as it is, and with so much uncertainty as to whether it would even be worth while, I am leaning towards just copping it.

I did admit, because I did the wrong thing, but only asked for the fine reduced on the grounds the magistrate would agree the implications of having 1 point for a self employed person, who relies on being mobile to earn an income, were a bit too full on. Not cause I am a nice guy, I fully expected the magistrate to remember I am the heinous unicorn molesting speed demon asshole that I am. If I was actually losing my license, it would be a different story, as I would have no choice except to pursue the decision.

Also no need to be a bad sport, not here for sympathy, just advice. Harsh as some of you are, advice is advice.
Only a fool would approach the AL collective expecting anything else.

[beatle]

I did admit, because I did the wrong thing, but only asked for the fine reduced on the grounds the magistrate would agree the implications of having 1 point for a self employed person, who relies on being mobile to earn an income, were a bit too full on. Not cause I am a nice guy, I fully expected the magistrate to remember I am the heinous unicorn molesting speed demon asshole that I am. If I was actually losing my license, it would be a different story, as I would have no choice except to pursue the decision.


So you wrote a letter to the court, admitting you broke the law, but wanted the penalty reduced because you are probably going to break the law again?

Makes sense.

[ossie_21]

So um, yeah. Thread's going beautifully.....

[S85FI]

They are not judges, they are magistrates.

Judges need legal training, Magistrates need legal familiarity.

You can always appeal, and go before a proper circuit court judge, and plead for leniency.

Magistrates do not need to justify their decisions. They can at any time discount your testimony, and say they believe the Cops over you. Judges Can NOT.

At this point, you are still innocent, until you accept the judgement handed down against you, or until the High court of Australia finds against you.

I've personally gone to court, for a situation where a speed limit dropped from 90-60, but the sign was behind a Bloody AMBULANCE with it's flashing lights on. When I pointed this out to the magistrate he asked'why didn't you slow down anyway?'. I asked him if he WANTED me to have an accident? he got pissy and started to try and reprimane me. I responded and said doing the unpredictable has unpredictable results. It's the predictable and unchanging that is safest.

He disagreed and fined me.

I went to the local supreme court and challenged his judgement and won.

You have to make your own decision as to whether it's worth it or not.

There both qualified legal practitioners.
One will make a decision there and then.
The Judge more than likely will jave a jury.

I can see it now...

Jury I was speeding but....

[R3N]

My advice, don't speed.

[Baron]

4) If you fail then there are any number of senior counsel in Perth who will assist you to overturn the Magistrates decision in the Supreme Court. Single Judge will start at about $8000.00 per day. Full Bench around $12,000 per day. Not guaranteed this will work either.

Hahahaha. No.

I expect that there isn't any discretion on the part of the Magistrate to reduce the number of demerit points given the admission of guilt.

At the end of the day, you still have your licence...

[DISTRBD]

My advice, don't speed if you need a licence to stay employed

Need more speed cameras and less cops :P

[Brett_J]

Kudos for taking the collective band wagon fuckhead comments with a grain of salt :)

[Jumanji]

Can I ask why you decided to admit in writing that you're guilty of Speeding, but needed advice after the event to do the opposite?

you shouldn't need advice for common sense.

Either way they have it in writing now, you're screwed.

[d1mitch]

I did 2 years and 11 months with 1 point.

Then got a 1 point fine

Didn't pay it on time
and again

By then all points were good. Good old days.

did the same thing lost 11 points in the space of 3 months so did just shy of three years on 1 point.

if anything it makes you a better driver because you develop a sixth sense for cops and cameras

[sam5709]

its hard to get extraordinary regardless these days. I wanted one for my monthly hospital appointments as my partner was taking me and she was having to take time off work. Turns out they abolished any law that causes hardship/inconvenience for anyone else having to run you around.
So because I COULD get there. They didnt care how because I was currently still making the appointments. I was also a fitter at the time and the only
one at the workshop. I needed to be able to test drive vehicles after suspension work and diagnose issues. Zero fucks given by the courts. And that waswith having a clean record for years with no points to my name.

dont know how the fuck I see so many E's down stock road. Wonder what reason people are using to get accepted for one...

E licenses are easy to get if you having no license for your job will without a doubt result in you losing your job, resulting in no more income. obviously driving has to be essential to the job. i took my boss into court with me to say this and they gave me one without question.