Property Management

[Wrexter]

Hi All

Can anyone here recommend a property manager that doesn't charge a fee every time they take a step.

Have recently got a couple of units to rent out and the fees from one unamed company are a bit over the top imo. Initial fees are 9.35% but with all the additional fees, my estimates are coming to ~25% a year of our rental.



Management Fee - 9.35%
Letting Fee - 2 weeks for less than 6 months, 3 weeks for over 6 months
Advertising Fee - $350
Property Condition Report - $247.50
Final Bond Inspection - $198
Routine Inspection Report
- Initial - $88
- Quarterly - $88
Attendance Fee - $88
Lease Renewal - $198
Administration Fee - $16.50
Tenant Enquiry Fee - $20 per enquiry
Professional Photography - $165


Any advice & assistance appreciated.



Cheers

[stumps.]

Whats your email mate I will send you the one I use

Much better than that.

[Missile]

Most places will do an 'all inclusive' fee structure as well if you are getting rapped.
e.g. its your 9.35% + + + + +
or a 15% all inclusive fee

25% is a lot... do you have the agent going to body corporate meetings etc.?

[stumps.]

The deal i sent through was 7.7%
Condition report $79
Advertising fee $50
Leasing fee - 2 weeks rent
Inspections $44
Bond Inspection $59
Admin Fee $7.70 per month
Annual Summary $29
Lease Renewal $59

[Wrexter]

The deal i sent through was 7.7%
Condition report $79
Advertising fee $50
Leasing fee - 2 weeks rent
Inspections $44
Bond Inspection $59
Admin Fee $7.70 per month
Annual Summary $29
Lease Renewal $59

Thanks for that stumps, looks good, will review it closely and compare.

I have asked them for a all inclusive rate and theirs is 17.6% but because they are also a buying agency/wealth advise services, they will be providing ongoing advice etc. but perhaps not worth the high fees.

If i can get them to ~15% (for a duplex of 2 units side by side) i will be happier.

But from what i can see all inclusive works out much better over pay as you go, for tenants stay around 1-2 years, if you had a long term happy tennant, maybe pay as you go would be a better option.

[mARC]

I'll check over the figures from the agent that looks after my fathers factory, pretty sure they're lower than stated in the OP.

It may be advisable to look into how the figures change if you give them exclusive rights to sell the property.

[singh]

I shopped around and negotiated hard to get a reputable agent from 9.35% to 7% (told them to shove their admin fee) plus got a couple of presents on signing... Also secured a lease for $30 more per week than any agent appraisal. That's only with one property... Once I subdivide and build, will be re-negotiating a new rate.

All inclusive rates aren't worth it in my opinion, unless the rent is low.

[apg39]

pingpingpingpings turned into bankrobbers now. Never been charged for lease renewals before, or final bond inspections all that shit is part of the management fee % & never went above 10%. I'd be keeping a close eye on all the property reports too, make.sure they aren't just rehashing the last one or bland inspection reports. I know when I was a PM I'd do around 12 a week, $1056 according to their structure & most of.them were <5 mins then a few minutes to alter the previous report & print. Easy money. Nowadays it's like you are being charged the 9.35% just to store a key there since you get charged for everything else.

The fuck is an 'Attendance Fee'?

[Lump]

been happy with my self managed property for 18 months now

[S85FI]

Manage my own. Its your own fault if it goes wrong. Agents are lazy fucks deceiving lying pingpingpingpings, seriously if they are looking after 200+ properties how can attention to detail be there?

Since doing my own never had a problem.

Your fees pay sweet Fuck All. If you need to go to court etc they charge you for it.... wtf is the management fee for?


Short listing is easy. Supply:
Police clearance
12 weeks of pay
Rental reference
Reference from a employer.

Those few things cul heaps of dreamers. My last add I did well over 100 applicants. I copy and paste one email response to enquiries. If they don't respond with Gumtree questions there almost in the door.

You're in control with the applicant and not a 10% that an agent wants.

No offence to good agents.

My current tenant came clean and told me he didn't have a clean record. I just asked the questions and was happy with response. One of my best tenants.

All forms caan be downloaded from DOCEP. If you look closely its the same form agents use.... with their logo pasted in.

[Stig]

Agree with managing it yourself.

Does anyone know if you have to be licensed to be a property manager? Reason I ask is that I'd like to charge someone to manage their property for a reduced fee (compared to real estate agents)? I'm not an agent.

[MadDocker]

Not sure if they are any good because I'm not rich enough to have investment properties, but, these guys advertise a flat rate of 10% all the time on 6PR. http://www.defreitasryan.com.au/ Might be worth a look?

[Kaido]

commercial or residential?

[crabman]

Do you need to be qualified to start a company doing said work? This sounds like a license to print cash.

[Joe]

Stig, you can't manage a property on behalf of someone else without a licence.. Unless you work directly for them.

For example, you are employed directly by the company or person who owns the properties, and they pay your wage.

Also, you cannot accept rent money into trust, it needs to go directly to the owners account.. You simply keep track of the rent based on the statement provided by the owner.

You can become a licensed manager very easily but you need to work under a triennial certificate holder before you'll be issued one (ie the triennial holder needs to endorse your application).

Residential really isn't an issue.

However, manage commercial or retail property unlicensed at your peril.. There are a lot of laws and legal documents involved in commercial management and if you get dragged into a legal matter, this could mean a lot of trouble for you.

[Stig]

Thanks Joe. I was referring to residential property.

Might call it a project management fee instead.

[Brett_J]

12 weeks of pay


3 Fucking months up front?

[Fukushima]

3 Fucking months up front?

I think he meant 3 months of pay slips

[Brett_J]

I think he meant 3 months of pay slips

Makes more sense.

[S85FI]

Not sure if they are any good because I'm not rich enough to have investment properties, but, these guys advertise a flat rate of 10% all the time on 6PR. http://www.defreitasryan.com.au/ Might be worth a look?

They also put tenants in your place and don't let you know. I was overseas. Came home early. Went to my rental. Person living there. I raged. No idea how long it went for.

[mys1]

Righto -Need a little help

Taking possession of a leased property on Friday next week, Current agent has decided she doesn't want to continue managing for such a short period (til November)

Need links to the section of REIWA that actually tells me what i can and can't do... I for the life of me can't find them on the website...

[Joe]

Tyson, come past Saturday and ill teach you.

In the mean time, department of commerce website has an info booklet you can download

[magic1]

Righto -Need a little help

Taking possession of a leased property on Friday next week, Current agent has decided she doesn't want to continue managing for such a short period (til November)

Need links to the section of REIWA that actually tells me what i can and can't do... I for the life of me can't find them on the website...

what a retard.

[mys1]

what a retard.

Me or the agent?

I have since found the commerce guide, seems easy enough

YOLO

[magic1]

Tyson.

the agent.

[R3N]

Anyone have recommendations on agents? Just trying to work out if i should self-manage of get an agent to look after my investment property

[RGVFAST]

When its 7-10% management fees to collect rent for you, it seems like a no brainer to self manage.

[HANS YOLO]

Anyone have recommendations on agents? Just trying to work out if i should self-manage of get an agent to look after my investment property

GF's sister if you need one...Vietnamese efficiency FTW...operates out of Morley area

[Riggs]

Quack, you are the ultimate bean counter, anyone who can get a paid for their wheels from a car dealer in another state and get their wheel resprayed by a large automotive company who have done virtually nothing wrong will have no problem managing a property.

However, if you happen to get a 21yo size 6 D cup stripper as a tenant..

YOUR FUCKED SON

[Lonewolf]

good thread, the figures bandied around here for property management = rather do it myself when it comes time to rent out my place next year
Plus can then claim travel expenses for inspections etc on tax

[Sebdullah]

Quack, you are the ultimate bean counter, anyone who can get a paid for their wheels from a car dealer in another state and get their wheel resprayed by a large automotive company who have done virtually nothing wrong will have no problem managing a property.

However, if you happen to get a 21yo size 6 D cup stripper as a tenant..

YOUR FUCKED SON


LOL lapdances are now the official currency of Malaysia

[mys1]

Yup, surprisingly simple once you have the basics in front of you.

[huggy_b]

For a tax deductible $30/week, someone else can take the responsibility for screening tenants, inspections and all that shit.

[RGVFAST]

Anything above taking the rent they sting you extra fees. Leasing fees of 2+ weeks rent to screen tenants when it's a new lease, hundred or so for any inspections.

Depends what your time is worth to you, but to save giving someone else 50-80 bucks a week dependant on the rental price I'd do it myself. The only caveat would be if the property manager could get you higher rental price than you could get yourself, and that difference covers the management fees, then it would be worth it in my opinion.

[S85FI]

For a tax deductible $30/week, someone else can take the responsibility for screening tenants, inspections and all that shit.

10-15% of weekly rent goes to an agent
2 weeks letting
Sundries


30 bucks a week... 250 pw for a rental?
Say 500 a week house

50 a week admin fees
20 a week went to letting fee
Plus any admin crap they bill
Does not include services for court costs
So at a 70 a week minimum. .. why would you use one?
All they do is down load a form from docep and put their logo on it....

[Joe]

One dwelling = DIY

[R3N]

How much to get my own logo? It all seems simple enough I guess. Will have a good read of all the forms and see how I go. I thought it was going to be under 10%, but by the time you add all the rest of the shit in, could be 15%+ from what I've read.

I am more concerened about getting the right people in, rather than the managing bit itself. Will need someone to hold my hand.

[S85FI]

R3N
Read post 10

I'll help you set it up.
I manage all my properties on my own and about to set up my own strata management business as about to do a strata development and plan to do that myself.
If an effnik can do it then a gook sure can too.

[Joe]

How big a Strata Management business are you looking at setting up?

I've got a 44 unit mixed use complex and potentially another 20 unit commercial that I am procrastinating on because I can't be fucked doing Strata Management. Let me know once you're set up and maybe we can JV some work.

[S85FI]

How big a Strata Management business are you looking at setting up?

I've got a 44 unit mixed use complex and potentially another 20 unit commercial that I am procrastinating on because I can't be fucked doing Strata Management. Let me know once you're set up and maybe we can JV some work.
Business + friends/social to do a joint venture is something I would never do.
Seen way too many fall outs.

At 60 units id be seeing a very high end accountant and contract layer and one that does litigation to make sure things are sweet and not a forum. .. haha

[volt_bite]

For a tax deductible $30/week, someone else can take the responsibility for screening tenants, inspections and all that shit.

As a bean counter, this is how I feel too. I could do it myself (one property) but I don't lol.

[LostInTheWoods]

Using a property manager is also a point of risk mitigation. If something has not been corrected on the property, and the tenant injures themselves, it is the property manager who gets sued, not the owner. This can be as a result of improper wiring, RCD's, fire, glass, paving - the liabilities a PM faces is endless, plus the hassle of dealing with people who think that for their $450 pw they own you. For that alone, plus the screening, and dealing with tenants and their complaints, I would always pay a decent PM to do the work. I don't want to know about it, or hear about it. If you have a good property manager, you will probably never hear from them unless maintenance is required above your pre-set limit.

That and if the property manager makes an error of judgement, you can usually claim back from the company - they have huge responsibilities to uphold. You make an error of judgement, you pay.

If you do go self managed, and there is nothing wrong with that - the above is just my preference, do not be the tenants friend, keep it as clean cut and professional as possible. You give people an inch, they take a mile. Look at all your "good" mates and how hard it is to get them to pay money back. Imagine that with a tenant. They will start paying rent erratically, being lazy and unclean. It is amazing how humans act, in property management you get to see it all!

Also, I don't want a tenant calling me at 2am on the weekend telling me they have locked the keys out of the car, or the fridge has stopped working, or the powers out, or all the other dumb shit that our increasingly retarted population comes up with. I have an emergency, the tap is leaking - "f**k off".

On that note, you can get better rates now, the market is weak, but so is your rental yield. don't be afraid to barter as much as you can with what is included in the management contract.

[Nugs]

For a tax deductible $30/week, someone else can take the responsibility for screening tenants, inspections and all that shit.
This, for 7% I cbf doing it myself.

[j3rk]

For those using a management company, and with experience, do you actually think its 7%?

Inspections + initial fees + retenanting shows different to me.

[volt_bite]

I am paying like 13% all inclusive. Didn't have to pay the 2 weeks leasing fee though. When I calculated the % it was pretty much the same as the lower fee that was non-inclusive of all the services.

[S85FI]

13% based on say a 20k pa rental yeild is around 650 bucks for 4 property inspections.

More if less inspections. Money for sweet fa for the property manager.
At 30k a year thats close to 1k per property inspection.

I bet they take less than 1 hour.

Each to their own I guess. But I'd rather my cash in my pocket.

[volt_bite]

Yeah, comes down to being a bit lazy tbh!

My mum managers some of her own property and has property managers for others. It can be a bit of a headache as she has had some crap tenants not paying, leaving the place in a crap state, also the long vacancy periods. I really cbf dealing with any of that! I've had to write her a few warning notices too for her tenants - two weeks notice I believe?

[S85FI]

It's different pending on which lease. You can do periodic or fixed term. I do periodic as it has no expiry and just goes on and on until one party ends the lease. Saves fucking around and pick carefully. A few simple things at selection time cul nearly all applicants. Most times im left with a few to choose from. Easy peasy. Periodic leases I think is 60 days and fixed is 30. Also fixed if you sell the asset it makes it hard to sell if new buyer isn't interested in a "going concern".

Im lazy too, but the tight pockets outweigh being lazy ;)

[baz]

Using a property manager is also a point of risk mitigation. If something has not been corrected on the property, and the tenant injures themselves, it is the property manager who gets sued, not the owner. This can be as a result of improper wiring, RCD's, fire, glass, paving - the liabilities a PM faces is endless, plus the required above your pre-set limit.
That and if the property manager makes an error of judgement, you can usually claim back from the company - they have huge responsibilities to uphold. You make an error of judgement, you pay.

This type of thing is why you should have Strata council Members Liability insurance as part of your insurance for the Strata. The amount of times I recommend people take this out as part of their policy and they just say "no, not if it will cost me another $200 a year". All smart PM's will make this a part of the insurance for their clients Stratas. It can even protect those who manage their own Strata's for errors of judgement.