Electrical help

[Brett_J]

Ok, we have 2 heaters, ones an oil heater and the other some convection heater thingy, regardless of which one we use, it throws the breaker every time we turn stuff on like the Coffee machine or toaster. The cord is always hot as well.
The Breaker is 16 amps, the Heaters are 10amp I assume by my working out 2400w divided by 240v = 10amp?
Is there some thing to stop this or am I fucked because our unit has shit wiring?
Or throw a 20amp breaker in there?

[DBLDOSE]

Sounds like those rooms are all on the same circuit. Kitchen appliances can pull big amperage. Seen kettles pull 10A or more before, common cause of overloads.

Safest solution is get up in the roof and split up the junction to spread the load. I would try to get the power points that feed your kitchen appliances all on their own circuit. With easy roof access it is 1 hours work.

[RICEY]

Hot cord I would assume its drawing more amps than it should?

[S85FI]

Plug heater into different power points and see what works? Surely all your power points are not on the one circuit?

[Blueraven]

Hot cord = bad news.
Something is wrong with that heater.

[Brett_J]

Just checked the Meter box
Power - 16 amp breaker
Lights - 16 amp Breaker
Stove - 20 amp breaker
Spare - 20 amp breaker

The Aircon is on a different circuit all together.

I threw the spear breaker in, why the hell would a 3 bedroom unit have one circuit for power !

We don't have Gas either, so it's not an option.

[DBLDOSE]

Hot cord I would assume its drawing more amps than it should?

Could also be the cause. Get a cheap clamp meter.


Plug heater into different power points and see what works? Surely all your power points are not on the one circuit?

Not necessarily every point in the house will be but adjacent rooms often will be. Had a 70s 3x1 job last week where whole place had 1 power circuit and 1 light circuit so it does/did happen.

Easiest way to figure it out is go grab a $50 clamp meter or borrow one, test the heater, if it's not shorting and pulling more than 10A, get your electrician to open up the board and check the power circuit under full load, with the heater running and toaster/kitchen appliances in use.


Just checked the Meter box
Power - 16 amp breaker
Lights - 16 amp Breaker
Stove - 20 amp breaker
Spare - 20 amp breaker

The Aircon is on a different circuit all together.

I threw the spear breaker in, why the hell would a 3 bedroom unit have one circuit for power !

We don't have Gas either, so it's not an option.

Heater, toaster, coffee machine and you are at about 16A.

[Brett_J]

I have a clamp meter, but it registers really low, do I need some AC separator or something?

[S85FI]

Did this when extended the garage.


http://i40.tinypic.com/2d1tnhl.jpg

[RICEY]

Well that was helpful.

:D

[Brett_J]

Yeah cheers.........

[S85FI]

No worries fellas... glad to share ideas :)

[DBLDOSE]

I have a clamp meter, but it registers really low, do I need some AC separator or something?

Not sure mate, check what setting your meter is on?

Doesn't matter if the heater is faulty or not though when it comes to your problem, running that with your kitchen stuff will trip the breaker all day long.

[Brett_J]

Yeah figured I'm fucked for at least a year till lease runs out.

[DBLDOSE]

Yeah figured I'm fucked for at least a year till lease runs out.

If you have roof access it would be be less than an hours work for a sparky to break up the kitchen from the original circuit and run a new one back to the board. Should only cost you a junction box, x amount of metres of 2.5 cable and a 16A RCD combo.

[SSICK]

Did this when extended the garage.


http://i40.tinypic.com/2d1tnhl.jpg

Overkill. Could have spent 60% less money and still done it all with clipsal gear.

When you add in a new circuit your flash engraved labels are good for fuck all....

Oh wait.....you can't cos you're sparky used more space than he needed.

[blaize]

dont just wire shit yourself coz youll end up with something on a lighting circuit or some shit. Remember most smallish houses will be split into 2 circuits so kitchen and laundry are seperated, so moving it to the other circuit will only move the problem to another circuit.

a heater draws lots of current the same as all element type appliances(kettles,toasters etc) but remember the hot cord could just be because its is next to a heater :P
if its a good non chinese decent brand of heater the cable will be rated to suit the current drawn for the appliance. So chances are if the max the heater will draw is 16a on start then thats what the cable will be suited to.


either a) dont turn more than one of your big drawing appliances on at once.
b) get a licensed electrician to split the circuit or install a new one(id probs charge like $150 depending on house size etc and how much of a pingpingpingping it is)
c)dealwithit.jpeg


Remember just because the heater says it is 2400w(10a) does not mean that on start it will not draw well upwards of that to get itself going. the same as a kettle or anything with an element.

[SSICK]

If you have roof access it would be be less than an hours work for a sparky to break up the kitchen from the original circuit and run a new one back to the board. Should only cost you a junction box, x amount of metres of 2.5 cable and a 16A RCD combo.

What's your hourly rate? If you can do that in an hour......I have work for you.

[blaize]

^ i was thinking exactly that haha

[S85FI]

Overkill. Could have spent 60% less money and still done it all with clipsal gear.

When you add in a new circuit your flash engraved labels are good for fuck all....

Oh wait.....you can't cos you're sparky used more space than he needed.

Wow I'm amazed you could factor 60% cost at a figure you're totally clueless on. You're an idiot, id at least of asked what the cost was prior to making an assumption.

Impress me tell me what this all cost including the wiring of the new garage and the hot water timer? Lets see how clever you are?

[Brett_J]

Brother in Law is a sparky and ex housemate is as well, both would do it for a cashy, but it's a rental so no point, just will turn shit off when running a few things.

[SSICK]

Yes I am an idiot, I have no idea what I am talking about.

[SSICK]

ZZM5 that installation would warrant a fault and an electrician to come out an rectify. One look by an inspector and he would shake his head.

[DBLDOSE]

What's your hourly rate? If you can do that in an hour......I have work for you.

$13.50 I think I get.

If a tradesman and his apprentice don't have that done in an hour then they are getting overpaid.

Edit: Actually really I think I would have that done piece of piss, clipped up nice and all.

10 minutes to break up circuit
10 minutes to run new circuit
20 minutes to make junction and clip
10 minutes behind the board
10 minutes to clean up

[S85FI]

Yes I am an idiot, I have no idea what I am talking about.

Prove you're not? Come up with a figure.

Brett_J, if its a rental tell the agent or land lord. Its their responsibility to have it rectified. See if you can borrow a heater of someone or plug in a second kettle and see if you still have the same problem. That will at least save the puss and pain of trying to get a clamp meter.

Its not unreasonable to have those appliances on at the same time and if you put it in writing thwy would act. If you're a good tenant then im sure they would come to the part wirh some cash.

[SSICK]

6 x 16A RCD
3 x 10A RCD
1 x 20A CB
1 x 32A CB
1 x 80A MS
1 x 40A MS
1 x 7 day digital timer

$448.80

My solution
3 x 40A RCD
6 x 16A CB
3 x 10A CB
1 x 20A CB
1 x 32A CB
1 x 80A MS
1 x 24hr analogue timer with manual override

$262

[S85FI]

ZZM5 that installation would warrant a fault and an electrician to come out an rectify. One look by an inspector and he would shake his head.

Then we have a problem. Work performed by a electrician with 40 years experience. Some Electrical Inspector came out to inspect it as at the time as a 16KW A/C system was installed at the same time garage was built. A electrical certificate was produced for the work and signed off by the inspector which I gave to the insurance company for my public liability (for the garage work) and insurance liability against the house.

Inspector happy, Insurance Company happy, City of Fremantle happy.

No labour charge as I know the guy pretty well. Parts at 80% off from trade as his company has massive turn over. Labels free as his apprentice wasn't doing anything for the day.

But if your're qualified to make an opinion (I'm not) happy to pay you for your time to make it right. My concern is the garage needs to be building guaranteed for all work for some 20 years.

I've forked out the insurance liability so I'd rather be safe than not hence having an Inspector out, Shire being happy and getting a electrical certificate for the insurance company.

My rant :)

[SSICK]

Main earth needs to be identified.

All neutrals need to be identified.

Location of MEN needs to be identified.

Petty I know, but enough for an inspector to call me
Back to a job for.

But hey,
Im just a dumb electrician. What would I know.

[S85FI]

Now we have communication. :)




6 x 16A RCD
3 x 10A RCD I chose this as I wanted the circuits to be separate on the off chance something went wrong I still would have other independent circuits.
1 x 20A CB
1 x 32A CB
1 x 80A MS
1 x 40A MS
1 x 7 day digital timer I wanted the digital timer as it was small and fitted in next to the rest of the circuits.

$448.80 Less than your $262 with the labels.

My solution
3 x 40A RCD
6 x 16A CB
3 x 10A CB
1 x 20A CB
1 x 32A CB
1 x 80A MS
1 x 24hr analogue timer with manual override

$262 I was offered this option too but I wanted independent system and at the top of the meter box where the power comes from the cavity all the cables are number and tagged from the power board to the top of the brick cavity with a wiring plan attached, so if I wanted to add extra circuits (junction box) the sparky would know which circuit to tap into to.

Your not an idiot - I'm hot headed but we have an understanding now. ;)

[SSICK]

$13.50 I think I get.

If a tradesman and his apprentice don't have that done in an hour then they are getting overpaid.

Edit: Actually really I think I would have that done piece of piss, clipped up nice and all.

10 minutes to break up circuit
10 minutes to run new circuit
20 minutes to make junction and clip
10 minutes behind the board
10 minutes to clean up

If you want extra cash work. PM me. I'll report back here with your results haha.

It's 10mins just to get some fucking slack on the earth bond and remove the 10m of tape they taped it up with.

[Steppo_GT]

Seems I did 4 years of an apprenticeship for fuck all when I could've just logged on here to learn how to be a sparky..

[R3N]

Main earth needs to be identified.

All neutrals need to be identified.

Location of MEN needs to be identified.

Petty I know, but enough for an inspector to call me
Back to a job for.

But hey,
Im just a dumb electrician. What would I know.

Always identify your MEN ffs! Would have saved Tyson from much embarassment.

[180SXTCY]

Tom, is it an expensive excersise to put in down lights into a newly built house?

[YOUR MATE]

I did it through Tom and it was cheaper than getting the builder to do it.

[Sharpy1991]

from what ive heard, its bullshit cheaper to get them put in after the house is built than it is to get the builder to sort it. Ive heard of figures around $90 per starlight and shit.

[IWARNDU]

hahaha this thread has been somewhat entertaining.

ZZM5- That switchboard upgrade is DEFINITELY not compliant. so whoever told you it was obviously has no idea.

DBLDOSE- i also have work for you if you can separate a circuit in an hour. LOL

[S85FI]

Looks like I need to get some tradies back...

It's got me fucked how an industry that requires a licence can sign off on that. And the secwa or who ever it was that did the inspection fir the ac didnt say a thing?

Thanks for the feed back fellas. Is there anywhere I can ger info on it before I start calling people back?

From a serious point 1 being not serious and 10 being serious how bad is it?

[SSICK]

Don't bother with it.....

Just your rant about 40 year experience and the fact he has missed a few details that you should do without even thinking about it made me point it out.

[S85FI]

Got me thinking. .. concerned even.

I did say I'm not qualified to make an opinion. Its just disappointing someone with that much experience can miss out what ever was left out.

Anyway thanks for the info.

[Faz]

This thread delivered. This is why i don't do cashy's, internet sparky thinks he will split that circut in an hour. customer expects to be the same, i mean there's only 3 wires right? takes double the time. more then often it's further for me to travel then it is to supposedly do the work. Electrical inspectors are essentially the same as pit inspectors, they could ping you for menial shit or just let you fly with others, either way for your sake the certificate was all you needed.