Another example of our pathetic court system

[RICEY]

and utter incompetence...

A MAN has narrowly avoided jail after pleading guilty to bashing a man unconscious when he refused to share a bucket of hot chips outside a Perth nightclub last year.

Mr Heath said Erbe’s record showed he had a history of disorderly behaviour when drinking, with four court appearances since 2009.

Mr Heath said the suspended sentence gave Mr Erbe his last chance to change.

Seriously the pingpingpingping that handed that sentence down need to be beaten unconscious. What a fucking joke.

Chief Magistrate Steve Heath you are a fucking joke.

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/western-australia/daniel-anthony-erbe-spared-jail-for-bashing-over-hot-chips/story-fnhocxo3-1226679648086

[Lasoya]

Ricey for PM :)

[S85FI]

You got to be kidding.... How many changes does one need to change. One chirp of the tyres and the car is gone.

I think this is where the Police should have the ability to prosecute on Criminal matters. In the same manner as traffic Offences. Not have the courts decide. They should have some sort of immediate penalty.

[Risk10k]

Hey, I just wanted a chup bro.

[Joe]

The guy obviously has a fairly large chip on his shoulder..

[BlueSIV]

Think I've said it before, but its gonna take something like this happening to a judges family member to make them wake up and start handing out serious/deterring sentances.

Clearly these dick heads don't take into account the effects this has on the victims family especially when seriously injured

[Yakky Bear]

"No one steals my fucking chips"

[thrtytwo]

That's fucked. Nothing else to say on it really. Fucking stupid courts.

[Risk10k]

"No one steals my fucking chips"

It was you, wasn't it?

[Brett_J]

Our Justice system is completely fucked, just last week a Father got let off for raping his now 19 year old daughter since she was 9 years old, got 3 years good behaviour !
What the fucking fuck !

[TJ]

What a joke.

[_S9_]

Don't know why you guys are surprised? This is the norm for our whole country.

Go sit in the viewing gallery of any court session, you won't believe your ears.

[RICEY]

I swear if anyone harms someone I care about and the magistrate lets them off I'll hunt down both the offender and the pingpingpingping that let him/her off.

[-Luke-]

Im sure it would cost a bucket but we should all chip some cash so the victim can go after the offender in a civil suit.

Bring back the death penalty,I would like to see potato fry for what he did.

[jzx_andy]

wow

[Jase]

Ridiculous

Really sends a hardline message to all the Terry Tough pingpingpingpings out there

[DanWA]

cut his HECS

[DISTRBD]

and utter incompetence...

A MAN has narrowly avoided jail after pleading guilty to bashing a man unconscious when he refused to share a bucket of hot chips outside a Perth nightclub last year.

Mr Heath said Erbe’s record showed he had a history of disorderly behaviour when drinking, with four court appearances since 2009.

Mr Heath said the suspended sentence gave Mr Erbe his last chance to change.

Seriously the pingpingpingping that handed that sentence down need to be beaten unconscious. What a fucking joke.

Chief Magistrate Steve Heath you are a fucking joke.

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/western-australia/daniel-anthony-erbe-spared-jail-for-bashing-over-hot-chips/story-fnhocxo3-1226679648086

Young guy that stabbed and killed another guy in bunno 2 yrs ago got 6yrs last week , a good mate just finished his four and a half year sentence and he didn't kill anyone :/

[ho57ile]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/7uR5PyoLa3o" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Needs more this. Having personal experience with Australia's lenient courts it disgusts and saddens me, I don't have to make parallels to our hoon laws, we all get that. But why is this not a key issue for our politicians? Violent criminals and repeat offenders being let off time after time.

[shifted]

Go sit in the viewing gallery of any court session, you won't believe your ears.

Sat in one during school - I couldn't believe it.

"There's no point me giving you a fine, you won't pay it just like you haven't paid the other fines you've received...." blah blah blah guy got let off with a slap on the wrist.

This country is soft as fuck. Needs more death penalties and shit.


I swear if anyone harms someone I care about and the magistrate lets them off I'll hunt down both the offender and the pingpingpingping that let him/her off.

Shit video - but reading this made me think of this:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/a8SdihrPRWY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[RICEY]

Young guy that stabbed and killed another guy in bunno 2 yrs ago got 6yrs last week , a good mate just finished his four and a half year sentence and he didn't kill anyone :/

Did he do a burnout?

[DISTRBD]

Did he do a burnout?

Didn't pay his taxes for a few years ...

[sensei_]

Sat in one during school - I couldn't believe it.

"There's no point me giving you a fine, you won't pay it just like you haven't paid the other fines you've received...." blah blah blah guy got let off with a slap on the wrist.

This country is soft as fuck. Needs more death penalties and shit.

the law is more suited to those who have nothing to lose (no money, no assets, no care of their life). proper law abiding hardworking citizens get hounded for the littlest of things. creep ever so slightly over the limit and its a $75 fine. because we fear of losing our license due to non payment, we pay it reluctantly by the due date. yet a drop kick can go and bash someone's head in, and expect to get a slap on the wrist. forget to declare a sandwich that you didnt finish on the long flight home, and its a $220 fine, however importing a commercial quantity of drugs, and its just a short stint in jail and a free flight back home (if applicable)

[Phyber]

Who the fuck sent the directive to the courts to let people get off scott free with shit like violent crime and rape. But oh lock them up for years if the govco don't get their cut of income...right.

Put the judge in jail for stupidity.

:(

[BlueSIV]

Little bit off topic, but their was meant to be a petition against the judge? Of the Jill maher cad. Think it was in regards to allow prior convictions to be used as evidence if the crimes were of a similar nature.

Believe it came about because, the 5 or so rapes the guy committed before killing Jill maher were in admissible in court because they were separate incidences. (May have been in relation to his parole hearing).

Either way, are the fuckers that make these decisions immune to the degenerates of the world and therefore allow them to roam our streets or are so out of touch with society that they can't see the issue.

PS

if anyone can find the petition, maybe throw up a link or something, was keen to sign up when I first saw (60 mins) just didn't get around to it.

[DBLDOSE]

Everyone knows my stance on this already but this just makes it all the more obvious that this country is in dire need of some major reform.

Minimum jail term sentencing first. Put someone in hospital and you should be away for 6 months minimum. I don't care if its just stitches the current system is too lax when it comes to violent crimes.

Education second. Compulsory maths, kids need to learn the basics. High school English needs to focus less on Huxley's works and more on basic grammar and spelling. Fair enough if you want to finish after year 10 and start an apprenticeship but by that point everyone should know the difference between there, their and they're...

Drug reform should follow. Will ease pressure on jails which will need to cope with higher numbers of inmates as drop kicks like the in the OPs post will be doing time instead of heading to Liqiuds every Saturday night. Will also reduce rates of violence and theft and reduce deaths cause by overdose/bad drugs (Go look at the trouble the UK has had recently with PMA in street pills).


I swear if anyone harms someone I care about and the magistrate lets them off I'll hunt down both the offender and the pingpingpingping that let him/her off.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/CV5QskX_oW4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

It's not like western justice systems have just become lax, been that way for a long time.

If anyone knows who I should be paying protection money to so that if someone ever harms someone I love they will be receive the justice they deserve, let me know.

[Baron]

What I don't think anyone so far has appreciated is that sentencing someone to prison is actually the very last option available to a Judge, and is not an option lightly exercised. If any of you have ever gotten drunk and taken a swing at someone who probably didn't deserve it, think if that alone warrants the severe impact that jail time will have on the rest of your life. Having this on his record is already something that will affect this guy for a very long time.

Now, at a basic level, most people want to see wrongdoers punished. At a basic level, I agree entirely. However, sending someone to prison especially for low-level shit like this actually creates more problems than it causes.

If you ever get the opportunity to read sentencing transcripts, you will be surprised by just how thorough Judges are. Sometimes you might think that the result was wrong. Sometimes it will be. But all you have in front of you is the headline; the Judge has all the relevant material (and there is a lot of it) as well as the benefit of submissions on the appropriate sentence from the prosecution and the defence.

[DBLDOSE]

What I don't think anyone so far has appreciated is that sentencing someone to prison is actually the very last option available to a Judge, and is not an option lightly exercised. If any of you have ever gotten drunk and taken a swing at someone who probably didn't deserve it, think if that alone warrants the severe impact that jail time will have on the rest of your life. Having this on his record is already something that will affect this guy for a very long time.

Now, at a basic level, most people want to see wrongdoers punished. At a basic level, I agree entirely. However, sending someone to prison especially for low-level shit like this actually creates more problems than it causes.

If you ever get the opportunity to read sentencing transcripts, you will be surprised by just how thorough Judges are. Sometimes you might think that the result was wrong. Sometimes it will be. But all you have in front of you is the headline; the Judge has all the relevant material (and there is a lot of it) as well as the benefit of submissions on the appropriate sentence from the prosecution and the defence.

Bashing a man unconscious is low level? Will still be low level when it happens to you? Violence is the worst crime. Everything else can be replaced, your life can't.

Afraid of hitting someone who doesn't deserve it when you are drunk? Don't drink. He has a history of not controlling himself while under the influence of alcohol yet continues to drink. Not a very switched on engineer then.

[RICEY]

Low level? He beat the guy unconscious and continued to beat him till he was pulled off. He very easily could have killed him. Lets keep things in perspective here, this was far from low level crime.

[Phonat]

oh where all you guys there?

[DBLDOSE]

oh where all you guys there?



Education second. Compulsory maths, kids need to learn the basics. High school English needs to focus less on Huxley's works and more on basic grammar and spelling. Fair enough if you want to finish after year 10 and start an apprenticeship but by that point everyone should know the difference between there, their and they're...


You get the point.

[Baron]

Here is one set of events which is just as likely, based on the information in the article.

Offender: "Hey mate, can I have a chip?"
Victim: "Nah."
O: "Come on, come on"
[O tries to steal chip]
V: "Fuck off you shitstain I'll stab you in the face".
O: "Just having a laugh you fucking weak knob".
V: "I'll kick your head in".
[O punches him once, maybe twice to the face, guy falls down, O kicks him in stomach then is pulled off by friends].
[V lays on grounds, passes out momentarily, comes to].

That is about as much info as we're given by the article, yet you're acting like he chased him down and bricked him in the head whilst the guy was asleep.

I'm not endorsing violence, I'm sure as shit not keen to have it happen to me, and I wouldn't want to see anyone do it to someone I know, but I think people here are underestimating the punishment as given, underestimating the devastating impact of a jail sentence, and overestimating the nature of the attack.

[RICEY]

oh where all you guys there?

Were have ewe bean?

[Phonat]

Well spotted man

[RICEY]

Here is one set of events which is just as likely, based on the information in the article.

Offender: "Hey mate, can I have a chip?"
Victim: "Nah."
O: "Come on, come on"
[O tries to steal chip]
V: "Fuck off you shitstain I'll stab you in the face".
O: "Just having a laugh you fucking weak knob".
V: "I'll kick your head in".
[O punches him once, maybe twice to the face, guy falls down, O kicks him in stomach then is pulled off by friends].
[V lays on grounds, passes out momentarily, comes to].

That is about as much info as we're given by the article, yet you're acting like he chased him down and bricked him in the head whilst the guy was asleep.

I'm not endorsing violence, I'm sure as shit not keen to have it happen to me, and I wouldn't want to see anyone do it to someone I know, but I think people here are underestimating the punishment as given, underestimating the devastating impact of a jail sentence, and overestimating the nature of the attack.

It was his fifth court appearance, use some common sense.

[DCEVO]

In regards to the above post

That is speculation at best

[DBLDOSE]

Here is one set of events which is just as likely, based on the information in the article.

Offender: "Hey mate, can I have a chip?"
Victim: "Nah."
O: "Come on, come on"
[O tries to steal chip]
V: "Fuck off you shitstain I'll stab you in the face".
O: "Just having a laugh you fucking weak knob".
V: "I'll kick your head in".
[O punches him once, maybe twice to the face, guy falls down, O kicks him in stomach then is pulled off by friends].
[V lays on grounds, passes out momentarily, comes to].

That is about as much info as we're given by the article, yet you're acting like he chased him down and bricked him in the head whilst the guy was asleep.

I'm not endorsing violence, I'm sure as shit not keen to have it happen to me, and I wouldn't want to see anyone do it to someone I know, but I think people here are underestimating the punishment as given, underestimating the devastating impact of a jail sentence, and overestimating the nature of the attack.

Man is refused a free chip then instead of offering payment or walking away he tries to steal one. Sounds like attempted theft to me. He was in the wrong from the beginning.

I understand what you are saying, jail terms ruin lives but this guy has already had run ins with the law. Like Ricey said if there were no witnesses who knows if the victim would be alive today.

How does this grab you, never hurt a man but got 12 years. But at least the coke is off the streets...
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/cocaine-dealer-with-only-a-modest-lifestyle-and-no-flashy-trappings-sentenced-to-12-years-in-jail/story-e6freoof-1226642563497

Also let me add you would be worse off than this Erbe if say you get caught doing 160 on Brookton Highway at 4am next Sunday morningt...

[Baron]

It was his fifth court appearance, use some common sense.
If he had five assaults in that time, he would have served time for any suspended sentences. He has not, therefore they were presumably minor offences. The guy is a shit bloke, no doubt, but I would expect this is his most serious offence.

DCEVO, if you're referring to my post, it is a version of facts that correlates entirely with what is said in the news article that was linked, and would explain the sentencing discretion exercised by the Judge. I never said it was more than speculation, but it is obvious to me what everyone else is speculating to have occurred.

[ELUSIV]

It's quite ironic that previous offending is often disallowed when it comes time for judgement/sentencing. Yet the risk assessment tools we use to identify risk of reoffence have many static factors such as offending history as scoring against them. Amongst other dynamic factors.
While these tools have their limitations, they are a hell of a lot more effective than one person's judgement and at least have a reasonable grounding in evidence as to their reliability and effectiveness. They can form part of a pre-sentence report if one is required, but the report as a whole is taken into account rather than the scores they get on these risk assessments. A guy like this, without even looking in depth into his case I can see ticking a number of boxes on the violence risk scale we use...

[BlueSIV]

Hence, prior convictions should be taken into account if they are of the same nature?

You don't accidentally get into numerous street fights just like you don't accidentally rape 5 different women in the span of 15 years

[Baron]

Previous offending is relevant and incorporated into sentencing, but is a lot more difficult to use for conviction purposes, from my understanding.

[ELUSIV]

Man is refused a free chip then instead of offering payment or walking away he tries to steal one. Sounds like attempted theft to me. He was in the wrong from the beginning.

I understand what you are saying, jail terms ruin lives but this guy has already had run ins with the law. Like Ricey said if there were no witnesses who knows if the victim would be alive today.

How does this grab you, never hurt a man but got 12 years. But at least the coke is off the streets...
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/cocaine-dealer-with-only-a-modest-lifestyle-and-no-flashy-trappings-sentenced-to-12-years-in-jail/story-e6freoof-1226642563497

No offence, but you clearly have no idea of the impact substance use has. Dealers get hit with huge terms because when you look at the impact of all the crime that surrounds them directly, and indirectly from all the people that buy off them it is a massive impact on the community. Not trying to excuse what the current offender did in this thread, but for every drug dealer there are way more assaults, robberies, agg burgs, etc... that go along with it.

As you can see with this guy alcohol is a major factor in his offending. But I can tell you the majority of offenders in prison have substance use of all types as a factor in their offending. As redundant as beating the "drugs are bad" drum is, it actually has a much greater impact on the community than any other type of offending simply because it results in so much crime going along with it.

[DBLDOSE]

If he had five assaults in that time, he would have served time for any suspended sentences. He has not, therefore they were presumably minor offences. The guy is a shit bloke, no doubt, but I would expect this is his most serious offence.

DCEVO, if you're referring to my post, it is a version of facts that correlates entirely with what is said in the news article that was linked, and would explain the sentencing discretion exercised by the Judge. I never said it was more than speculation, but it is obvious to me what everyone else is speculating to have occurred.

By the sounds of it I would imagine he has had a few court orders after failing to comply to a move on notice after being drunk and disorderly in Northbridge after a night out.

Now he is assaulting people but we'll give him another chance, he has obviously had difficulties following the law before but fuck it, he'll be right now.


No offence, but you clearly have no idea of the impact substance use has. Dealers get hit with huge terms because when you look at the impact of all the crime that surrounds them directly, and indirectly from all the people that buy off them it is a massive impact on the community. Not trying to excuse what the current offender did in this thread, but for every drug dealer there are way more assaults, robberies, agg burgs, etc... that go along with it.

As you can see with this guy alcohol is a major factor in his offending. But I can tell you the majority of offenders in prison have substance use of all types as a factor in their offending. As redundant as beating the "drugs are bad" drum is, it actually has a much greater impact on the community than any other type of offending simply because it results in so much crime going along with it.

Trust me, I know very well what substance abuse does to a person and clearly you have no idea how easy it is to get drugs in this country. Like I've said before drugs are more available then ever, I could hop on silkroad right now and order a couple of points of speed express to your door here for the weekend. People will always sell drugs like people will always sell bread and milk but lets not turn this into a drug debate...

[ELUSIV]

Previous offending is relevant and incorporated into sentencing, but is a lot more difficult to use for conviction purposes, from my understanding.

I'm not an expert on that side of things, have read a ton of judges sentencing remarks (JSR's) and they often take into account prior offences at sentencing. But not always, and depending on the judge will depend on what things they place more emphasis in. They will more often than not look at current risk/protective factors and balance them up to make a decision. Ultimately the issue is that judge's are using their experience or own perceptions to make decisions. Whilst it is probably better than the average person, it isn't as reliable as using actuarial risk measures. Just find it ironic that we do it on our side of the system, yet it isn't done at the front end in the same way. Pre-sentence reports (PSR's) often have risk measures incorporated into it but ultimately it is up to the judge again how much emphasis they place on that. There are lots of other factors that come into sentencing, most JSR's are quite lengthy.

[SircatmaN]

LOL I recently did a unit on sentencing which was very eye opening. For an assignment we had a bunch of facts and interviews and things and had to determine a sentence for this person.
It was a very graphics assignment but just to skim over it the guy (remember this is a made up character and events for the assignment) broke into about 3 different houses, whilst on parole for sexual and burglary offences and held knives to peoples necks and made them suck him off with their kids watching and then stuck the knifes handle in there lady bit etc. then stole their cars and about $20,000 from each of these people. One of them was an old lady and he knocked the husband out and broke his jaw and broke her hip and stuff.
After looking at mitigating and aggravating circumstances and the fact that the guy was touched as a kid and stuff (Again a reminder this was all made up for an assignment) I came to the conclusion that he had a minimum of 257 years imprisonment with no chance of parole, he needed to be put on the Dangerous sex offenders list etc.
I got told I clearly had no idea how sentencing worked and got sent off to redo the assignment.

When I resubmitted I gave him 12 years imprisonment with parole after a certain amount of time (I can't remember exactly).
I got top marks.

[ELUSIV]

Trust me, I know very well what substance abuse does to a person and clearly you have no idea how easy it is to get drugs in this country. Like I've said before drugs are more available then ever, I could hop on silkroad right now and order a couple of points of speed express to your door here for the weekend. People will always sell drugs like people will always sell bread and milk but lets not turn this into a drug debate...

If you did then you wouldn't make a comment like "never hurt a man" when referring to a cocaine dealer...

[DBLDOSE]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/ipad/drug-driver-sentenced-to-three-years-jail/story-fn6bfm6w-1226166214094

Kill a man and do about a quarter of the time you would do for selling coke.


If you did then you wouldn't make a comment like "never hurt a man" when referring to a cocaine dealer...

That is so idiotic. He didn't force them to do the coke, they did it themselves.

Going to lock up your GP because he prescribed a heap of codeine after your surgery but you got hungry and ate the whole box? Didn't think so.

Why does everyone blame the drug dealer? The blame should be squarely on the user. I've been to Columbia, I've done cocaine. Must be some kind of divine miracle that I'm not a thieving rapist then...

Alcohol kills more people than cannabis, one is legal one is not. Your logic is flawed sir.

[SircatmaN]

I'm not an expert on that side of things, have read a ton of judges sentencing remarks (JSR's) and they often take into account prior offences at sentencing. But not always, and depending on the judge will depend on what things they place more emphasis in. They will more often than not look at current risk/protective factors and balance them up to make a decision. Ultimately the issue is that judge's are using their experience or own perceptions to make decisions. Whilst it is probably better than the average person, it isn't as reliable as using actuarial risk measures. Just find it ironic that we do it on our side of the system, yet it isn't done at the front end in the same way. Pre-sentence reports (PSR's) often have risk measures incorporated into it but ultimately it is up to the judge again how much emphasis they place on that. There are lots of other factors that come into sentencing, most JSR's are quite lengthy.

They are actually using previous sentences that have been handed down. There is also a rule called the totality principal they have to take into account which means that they must look at the offences as a whole and make sure that the sentencing isn't "crushing". Thats why they make a lot of the sentences run concurrently (As in if you have 2 offences and each carries 10 years imprisonment they will only make you serves 10 years total because they start at the same time and run together).

[ELUSIV]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/ipad/drug-driver-sentenced-to-three-years-jail/story-fn6bfm6w-1226166214094

Kill a man and do about a quarter of the time you would do for selling coke.



That is so idiotic. He didn't force them to do the coke, they did it themselves.

Going to lock up your GP because he prescribed a heap of codeine after your surgery but you got hungry and ate the whole box? Didn't think so.

Why does everyone blame the drug dealer? The blame should be squarely on the user. I've been to Columbia, I've done cocaine. Must be some kind of divine miracle that I'm not a thieving rapist then...

Alcohol kills more people than cannabis, one is legal one is not. Your logic is flawed sir.

Maybe it affected your brain with comments like that? :P

It is in fact, your logic that is flawed. You have poor understanding of even basic statistics and the impact of substances. Alcohol is legal, because for the most part, the majority of the population does not have a problematic pattern of use. Given it is so commonly consumed, more-so than any other substance it will of course have more people who use it problematically, therefore yes alcohol does have the most crime attributed to it. Per capita of users, it does not. Illicit substance users are vastly all at the problematic level. Is it possible to have a Heroin user not have problems (aside from the actual illegality of it)? Of course! How many Heroin users (i.e. per capita) can use it without having problems (physical, psychological, legal, etc..) very few. This is why it is an illicit substance, as are many others. How many people can use amphetamines responsibly?...Marijuana is often stated that it should be legal, it is a bit more complicated than the other ones, but it is considered a "gateway drug". That is whilst it MAY be ok on it's own (aside from again psychological, physical, legal impacts) it places people who use it around other drug users, creates a peer network comprised of criminal associates and often what I have seen is most people who have problems with more "serious" illicit substances, started out using Marijuana first.

It would be wise to do some reading into the topic. Otherwise I'll people will rage at going off topic and having essays to read. But if you have an open mind see what the literature and experts have to say.


They are actually using previous sentences that have been handed down. There is also a rule called the totality principal they have to take into account which means that they must look at the offences as a whole and make sure that the sentencing isn't "crushing". Thats why they make a lot of the sentences run concurrently (As in if you have 2 offences and each carries 10 years imprisonment they will only make you serves 10 years total because they start at the same time and run together).

Yep totality principle and concept of a sentencing being "crushing" is around based on the philosophy of rehabilitation. Complicated subject and sure everyone has their own views. A lot of factors will impact upon the combination of whether someone will have offences served cumulatively or concurrently. It is pretty full on when you read sentence summaries, and the JSR as the judge also takes into account back dating for time served in remand, then set's parole period or finite periods, etc...

They aren't just using previous sentences, that needs to be clear. They have a whole bunch of information, previous offending, current offending, severity, pre-sentence reports, compliance with orders, risk to community, protective factors, etc... before they make their decision. The judge considers a lot in balance before handing down a sentence, so it is always a complex concoction of these factors, what has the most sway with the judge will be personal. I've seen a lot of crim histories and people that are near on identical on paper get vastly different sentences. It is the judge's experience and perception of the factors at hand that results in the sentence being given. As I said they are a lot better than the average person and there is a lot of variance in sentencing sometimes.

[S85FI]

"No one steals my fucking chips"

Haha... had a guy try this once. I was kinda a angry ant at that stage of my life. Lost the plot and ended up mushing hot chips into the guys face. Stinking hot and just shoved the whole bucket into his mouth and then followed by twigs and another crap I could scrape of the ground.

Then the chick I was out with lost the plot at me like it was my fault the guy was punching me and trying to steal the food. She stormed off and told me I was a nutter and it wasn't called for.

I was not pissed off... went back to the guy fishing chips (pardon the punt) out of his mouth and said "now look what you did" Let your imagination run wild.

[SircatmaN]

Maybe it affected your brain with comments like that? :P

It is in fact, your logic that is flawed. You have poor understanding of even basic statistics and the impact of substances. Alcohol is legal, because for the most part, the majority of the population does not have a problematic pattern of use. Given it is so commonly consumed, more-so than any other substance it will of course have more people who use it problematically, therefore yes alcohol does have the most crime attributed to it. Per capita of users, it does not. Illicit substance users are vastly all at the problematic level. Is it possible to have a Heroin user not have problems (aside from the actual illegality of it)? Of course! How many Heroin users (i.e. per capita) can use it without having problems (physical, psychological, legal, etc..) very few. This is why it is an illicit substance, as are many others. How many people can use amphetamines responsibly?...Marijuana is often stated that it should be legal, it is a bit more complicated than the other ones, but it is considered a "gateway drug". That is whilst it MAY be ok on it's own (aside from again psychological, physical, legal impacts) it places people who use it around other drug users, creates a peer network comprised of criminal associates and often what I have seen is most people who have problems with more "serious" illicit substances, started out using Marijuana first.

It would be wise to do some reading into the topic. Otherwise I'll people will rage at going off topic and having essays to read. But if you have an open mind see what the literature and experts have to say.



Yep totality principle and concept of a sentencing being "crushing" is around based on the philosophy of rehabilitation. Complicated subject and sure everyone has their own views. A lot of factors will impact upon the combination of whether someone will have offences served cumulatively or concurrently. It is pretty full on when you read sentence summaries, and the JSR as the judge also takes into account back dating for time served in remand, then set's parole period or finite periods, etc...

They aren't just using previous sentences, that needs to be clear. They have a whole bunch of information, previous offending, current offending, severity, pre-sentence reports, compliance with orders, risk to community, protective factors, etc... before they make their decision. The judge considers a lot in balance before handing down a sentence, so it is always a complex concoction of these factors, what has the most sway with the judge will be personal. I've seen a lot of crim histories and people that are near on identical on paper get vastly different sentences. It is the judge's experience and perception of the factors at hand that results in the sentence being given. As I said they are a lot better than the average person and there is a lot of variance in sentencing sometimes.

I think you will find that a sentence that differs greatly when compared with sentences that have similar fact patterns will be easily appealed, they can't afford to make their own personal views effect the sentence to drastically. A sentence that is easily appealed is worthless. Like all things in law, Precedent is important.

[DBLDOSE]

Maybe it affected your brain with comments like that? :P

It is in fact, your logic that is flawed. You have poor understanding of even basic statistics and the impact of substances. Alcohol is legal, because for the most part, the majority of the population does not have a problematic pattern of use. Given it is so commonly consumed, more-so than any other substance it will of course have more people who use it problematically, therefore yes alcohol does have the most crime attributed to it. Per capita of users, it does not. Illicit substance users are vastly all at the problematic level. Is it possible to have a Heroin user not have problems (aside from the actual illegality of it)? Of course! How many Heroin users (i.e. per capita) can use it without having problems (physical, psychological, legal, etc..) very few. This is why it is an illicit substance, as are many others. How many people can use amphetamines responsibly?...Marijuana is often stated that it should be legal, it is a bit more complicated than the other ones, but it is considered a "gateway drug". That is whilst it MAY be ok on it's own (aside from again psychological, physical, legal impacts) it places people who use it around other drug users, creates a peer network comprised of criminal associates and often what I have seen is most people who have problems with more "serious" illicit substances, started out using Marijuana first.

It would be wise to do some reading into the topic. Otherwise I'll people will rage at going off topic and having essays to read. But if you have an open mind see what the literature and experts have to say.


So as long as the theft and violence is caused by alcohol users and not cocaine or heroin users you are happy? I'm not sure what you mean.

Alcohol causes physical dependence like cocaine and heroin. The dependent then steal or do what ever they need to so they can survive. Alcohol is a lot cheaper than hard drugs

Educate the user to combat the problem. Harm minimalisation and education needs to replace prohibition.

On your other point, if cannabis was legal you would no longer be in contact with other illicit drug users. Psychological impacts? If you have a family history of mental illness don't use cannabis. Physical impacts? Known pain reliever and appetite stimulant.

The gateway drug theory is just more democratic propaganda you would expect to see under Stalin's reign. I bet you more people go from alcohol to cannabis then they do from cannabis to cocaine or heroin, so really alcohol should be the gateway drug..

I'm all for decriminalisation. Let the idiots hit the coke and heroin hard. They either kill themselves or end up in rehab which can be funded by the money saved from not enforcing archaic drug laws.

If my logic is flawed let me know or if you need some reading material I'm happy to dig some old stuff up for you. :)

[ELUSIV]

So as long as the theft and violence is caused by alcohol users and not cocaine or heroin users you are happy? I'm not sure what you mean.

Alcohol causes physical dependence like cocaine and heroin. The dependent then steal or do what ever they need to so they can survive. Alcohol is a lot cheaper than hard drugs

Educate the user to combat the problem. Harm minimalisation and education needs to replace prohibition.

On your other point, if cannabis was legal you would no longer be in contact with other illicit drug users. Psychological impacts? If you have a family history of mental illness don't use cannabis. Physical impacts? Known pain reliever and appetite stimulant.

The gateway drug theory is just more democratic propaganda you would expect to see under Stalin's reign. I bet you more people go from alcohol to cannabis then they do from cannabis to cocaine or heroin, so really alcohol should be the gateway drug..

I'm all for decriminalisation. Let the idiots hit the coke and heroin hard. They either kill themselves or end up in rehab which can be funded by the money saved from not enforcing archaic drug laws.

If my logic is flawed let me know or if you need some reading material I'm happy to dig some old stuff up for you. :)

There is a lot wrong with most of your arguments. Do agree with harm minimisation though. Not going to keep arguing this back and forward, but given it is a field I have a lot of experience in and have presented at drug and alcohol conferences I've got a reasonable idea about this stuff :P

[DBLDOSE]

There is a lot wrong with most of your arguments. Do agree with harm minimisation though. Not going to keep arguing this back and forward, but given it is a field I have a lot of experience in and have presented at drug and alcohol conferences I've got a reasonable idea about this stuff :P

All of this has given me a headache, I'm off to pack my bong.

[devilfish]

Prohibition never works. Legalise all drugs / tax them. be a pingpingpingping go to prison and do hard time not the fluffy beds and TV we have now.. end of.

[bgtx3]

So with a clean history, no drug or alcohol problems or any violent tendency, the most I'd get for beating this judge senseless while his wife watches after I've raped her shouldn't be any more than what this repeat offender got yeah? Sweet. Who likes snuff films.......... This shit makes me sick. Spineless carnts...

[TurboHead]

http://youtu.be/xhaIL9iZ-os

A bit late but first thing I thought of when I read the OP.

Is the video coming up? See link if not

http://youtu.be/xhaIL9iZ-os