Torsen diff for circuit/sprint events.

[Turboesky]

Hi Guys.

Anyone had any experience with torsen diffs for circuit/sprint work?

I currently have a clutch type LSD in my hilux diff but it single pegs fairly easy when cornering. I am interested how the centers react when the power comes on mid corner. Do they instantly lock up or are they more progressive as they engage. They get good reviews on the 4wd sites but haven't seen much from the racing scene.

Cheers

[ED40]

I have a 4wd system lokka in mine. It makes a loud clicking noise when unlocking and I constantly get people asking if I have blown my diff or axles, even cv's. lol.

I'm not sure if it's just the falcon but my car is very oversteery with it, even when I'm not trying to get the arse end out. It's not so bad in rally events but at Barbagallo it's a bit tedious if I'm trying to get a decent lap in. Mid-corner it wont 'snap'. But if you have a lead foot you will be oversteering. The biggest problem I have with mine is braking hard while turning and changing down a gear, it doesn't like that and sometimes it will lock up.

The 4wdsystems Lokka isn't very streetable either, it creates heaps of backlash in the diff. You may also want to use 28 or more spline axles! Your welcome to come and look at my car if you see me around and come for a spin.

[lathiat]

I didn't do much track work with it but I had a Quaife in my Magna and the difference was night and day.. very addictive - even with the stock power of a 3.5L V6.

They never actually lock, it's always variable torque multiplication.. so you won't have insta-lock. Note, however, they will not function if you get 1 wheel off the ground.. there is another brand of LSD very similar to the Quaife but with an extra bit of magic to get a partial lock when 1 wheel is free spinning in the air.. wavetrac from memory?

Really only applies to a freespin though.. I remember one occasion taking off with 1 leg in gravel and 1 on bitcumen and the bitcumen side broke traction.

[Turboesky]

Thanks ED40, I have a richmond lokka in the rear of my Landcruiser and it is a pain in the ass on the street.
Looking at this unit: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/detroit-truetrac-30-sp-toyota-hilux-hiace-/220332976084?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item334cde67d4&_uhb=1

[Brett_J]

Torsen are the shit, audi use them and I think a few other high end manufacturers, I'm chasing one for my car but so far only the S15 fits, and that has shit ratios.

[Alt_F4]

For race use you need the style that has a preload for when it has one wheel in the air.

Alternatively, you need some sort of controller that can tell when a wheel is in the air and electronically applies some brake force to that wheel, like how some of the high end setups work.

[Skitzo]

I think a few other high end manufacturers

Yeah, like Toyota.

[Lonewolf]

yeah i have a quaife in the astra, makes a huge difference to traction.
Very progressive, you dont really feel it lock up, it just does and fires you out of the corner. very different to a mechanical unit

As above, they wont work with one wheel in the air (TBH if i'm at that point i've got bigger things to worry about), the wavetrac one mentioned above can though.

[Alt_F4]

Yeah, like Toyota.
Nearly every manufacturer uses a torsen diff for at least one application, does not make Toyota high end LOL

[tinto]

I think helical/torsen are pretty average on track as their locking action can be a bit hard to predict.
As others have said, you'll still spin one wheel if it gets unweighted - which is likely in a circuit environment.

I swapped out my s15 helical/torsen for a nismo two way with help from Dalspec and haven't looked back.
Completely predictable when it comes to grip levels and locking up on track.

A Helical is great on the street, it transforms a high powered FWD - I'd have loved one in my Golf.
A Mechanical diff is a bit notchy on the street as it chi-chi-chirps around corners, but excels on track.

[Sack]

I have an F-series helical torsen (8") from a MS112 crown in my AE86. It was very predictable when accelerating or deccelarating and was so smooth when in oversteer conditions. The AE86 does have extensive suspension mods so that it sits flat through corners so it doesn't lift a wheel.

The torsen in the JZX90 has the problem with spinning one wheel if it gets thrown too hard into the corner as it's only got springs and is not very stiff through corners.

The clutch type diff is pretty much on or off where as the torsen has a gradual limited slip effect (hence the "torsion/torque" name)

[c.rusli]

I have 1.5 way on my Fwd EF Civic.
Before that I was tossing around the idea of having Plates LSD or Mechanical Torsen diff. and found that Plates LSD is much better applications for doing track works rather then the torsen diff incase of wheels lifting up in the air...

although my suspension set up was quiet worked extensively to reduce wheel lifting and being a fwd, they rarely come lift up unless im hitting the ripple strips.

like every one said above Torsen diff only works when 2 wheels are on the ground, and does not work when 1 is lift up.

only the down side is that Plates lsd does wear outs. and take sometimes to bed-ed in before it could work nice and smooth.

[Turboesky]

Thanks for all the info guys.

Just pricing up a 2way cusco/Kaaz style now but looks to be about $300 to $500 more.

After driving for years with a Welded diff, I love the LSD for corner entry and drivability on the street. I would just like it to hook up more coming out of sharp corners.

[Nugs]

Where would be the best place to get a Quaife LSD in Perth?

[c.rusli]

Thanks for all the info guys.

Just pricing up a 2way cusco/Kaaz style now but looks to be about $300 to $500 more.

After driving for years with a Welded diff, I love the LSD for corner entry and drivability on the street. I would just like it to hook up more coming out of sharp corners.

From what i know 2 ways on RWD locks up the rear really well or should i say extremely well on decelerating or shifting down.

Might have caught off guards to some and cause massive slides :p pretty sure drifter loves it lol...

I'm no expert on RWD lsd surely some one can advise you what is better for your application interm of 1 way, 1.5 way or 2 ways



Where would be the best place to get a Quaife LSD in Perth?

To buy? is better from the net
to install it Tony Flood Is the man to do this kind of job. I'm sure others can vouch for his work.

[Lonewolf]

yeah buy from overseas (US probably cheapest for you)

[Turboesky]

Alternatively, you need some sort of controller that can tell when a wheel is in the air and electronically applies some brake force to that wheel, like how some of the high end setups work..

In 1978 when the ford escort was made, i think a brake light switch was as complex at it got.:)

[2jzlux]

You can get upgraded stiffer springs for the g series lsd diffs
There was a couple of guys on toymods selling them for Cressidas too
Just take the springs and find someone who will make a stronger one
Will cost about 50-100 dollars and will get rid of the one wheel shit

[200MPH]

Got a quaife ATB torsen diff. Love it. Compared to plated Lsd setup in previous car it is much smoother and you don't even know it's there. never spins one wheel either. However, my car does not lift the inside wheel, and from what I've seen of hard driven escorts they can easily do so, which can cause single pegger action. You also can't tune torsens with different springs and ramp angles like you can with plate and clutch lsds. You get one setup and hope you like it!
Local quaife agent is/was in NZ! Which is where I got mine from about 4 years ago.
Anyway, why dont you just call racetune and talk to them about options. What do us lot know about escort lsd in comparison?

[Turboesky]

why dont you just call racetune and talk to them about options. What do us lot know about escort lsd in comparison?

I have a hilux diff in mine which I believe is the same center as older supras/cressidas. i was more interested in the way they deliver the power and think a torsen may be the wrong diff after reading the feed back.

[Darkside]

I have gone torsen (detroit trutrak) for my RX7 project running a hilux rear. Landed from the US for about $500odd. Unfortunately its not on the road yet so no first hand feedback on actual performance. The wheel lifting and then going open is the only real drawback IMHO to torsen, but if your car is setup right, it shouldn't be doing it. Hilux live axle should be fine. My choice was based around needing a good tarmac car for wet and dry. Torsen should allow good turn in on both wet and dry tracks. Plated diffs can cause the front to push in the wet if set too aggressively. Was important for me that the car be good in all conditions. Also they are super reliable and require little or no maintenance.

[VZ_V8]

I have an Eaton Trutrack in my ute. One of the best upgrades I have done to date, far more predictable, locks up as soon as you apply some torque to it, but as others have said if it gets unloaded completely it will single spin, althought this hasn't been an issue for me yet at either Barbs or Collie. I had to modify my driving style a tad. I always get stuck on driveways because it lifts the inner rear wheel and I lose drive! Bit annoying having to make two attempts to get up a normal driveway. haha

[lathiat]

I have an Eaton Trutrack in my ute. One of the best upgrades I have done to date, far more predictable, locks up as soon as you apply some torque to it, but as others have said if it gets unloaded completely it will single spin, althought this hasn't been an issue for me yet at either Barbs or Collie. I had to modify my driving style a tad. I always get stuck on driveways because it lifts the inner rear wheel and I lose drive! Bit annoying having to make two attempts to get up a normal driveway. haha

Handbrake will fix you there (or brakes if FWD)

[mys1]

Why are you looking at two ways? It's going to act a lot like a locked diff.

A 1.5 way will work better for track work as on decel it won't unsettle the car

[Sciflyer]

One thing to consider if youre looking at an LSD for track work is reliability

If you give a clutch-type LSD a hard life or excessive loads all that happens (usually) is the clutches wear and need replacing, but the car is still perfectly driveable
If you give a Torsen a hard life or excessive loads it does not have replaceable parts, worse case scenario it just fails and you have to throw it in the bin, in addition the car is instantly undriveable

This is one reason why many serious competition cars traditionally do not use standard production Torsen-style diffs

Obviously this is not a serious concern if youre getting a Torsen capable of handling power and loads way in excess of what your car can produce, but if youre looking at something like an old Toyota G series Torsen which are not exactly immune to failure you should bear it in mind...

[200MPH]

One thing to consider if youre looking at an LSD for track work is reliability

Quaife ATB torsen diff centres have lifetime guarantee, street or track. Pretty sure I'll smash all the stuff around it first. OK, so I already have smashed a diff pinion, so make that 'damn sure I'll smash rest of trans first'.

My previous experience with normal LSD was in S2 RX-7 that saw 10 years of track loving from me. I shattered the cast iron 'hat' eventually from all the LSD induced loads trying to push it apart. Fixed with billet steel replacement hat.

Ultimately either plate or torsen LSD will be a good thing. I like them both as much as I hate single pegging.

[mr_rotary]

Fortnight ago before this thread I have also been looking at the Torsen vs Clutch aurguments and have settled on going for clutch for track duties for my RX-7 (S3 Diff). If going for Tosen I was heading towards the Quaife.

In my searches, have found this website that is well priced compared to other places for Quaife LSD's:
http://www.motorsport-tools.com/quaife-atb-lsd-diffs-c-19446_19452.html?zenid=1a981f799a48ef4134d11866961 b66ea