American Elementary Shooting

[Poktrokt]

http://m.washingtonpost.com/politics/sandy-hook-elementary-school-shooting-leaves-students-staff-dead/2012/12/14/24334570-461e-11e2-8e70-e1993528222d_story.html

How the fuck does this keep happening??
27 dead as of an hour ago :'(
My condolences to all effected!

[game]

horrible act will never understand what drives people to do things like this, 20 young kids lost for no reason at all

[mr_mike]

because america

[Joe]

If America hadn't failed to implement the 2nd Amendment correctly, the kids would have had weapons to defend themselves, and this would have never happened.

[TheChad]

Aside from the horror for those poor kids that died, every young kid that witnessed that will be carrying that with them forever.


I am pleased with Australia's gun laws. People are allowed guns yes, but only after proving themselves and they have go adhere to very strict laws. Americas gun situation is a joke.

[Sebdullah]

seriously wtf america??
those poor kids had their whole lives ahead of them, heres hoping Obama puts in some decent gun control laws after this
condolences for all those lost

[shifted]

I am pleased with Australia's gun laws. People are allowed guns yes, but only after proving themselves and they have go adhere to very strict laws. Americas gun situation is a joke.

Isn't there a city with concealed and carry laws over there that has helped reduce crime, because no one knows who is packing a weapon?

There's a meme already going around comparing Israeli to American teachers - apparently they are allowed guns to stop this sort of stuff happening?

Condolences the many people affected by this regardless... appalling to see this sort of stuff in this day and age.

[TheChad]

Their situation is so fucked over in America. It's almost too far gone to fix. I think it has been proven that no matter how many guns people are allowed it only takes one person to flip out. The damage is done before most people can react.
Wasn't there a supermarket shooting less than a week ago?

[GTB Liberty]

Isn't there a city with concealed and carry laws over there that has helped reduce crime, because no one knows who is packing a weapon?

There's a meme already going around comparing Israeli to American teachers - apparently they are allowed guns to stop this sort of stuff happening?

Condolences the many people affected by this regardless... appalling to see this sort of stuff in this day and age.

25 Years murder free (http://www.wnd.com/2007/04/41196/)

I think you mean this one.

[DRKWRX]

Isn't there a city with concealed and carry laws over there that has helped reduce crime, because no one knows who is packing a weapon?

There's a meme already going around comparing Israeli to American teachers - apparently they are allowed guns to stop this sort of stuff happening?

Condolences the many people affected by this regardless... appalling to see this sort of stuff in this day and age.

thats a typical American way of viewing the situation, I wouldn't want my kids going to school knowing the teachers all have guns.

[Fozzy]

Its a tragic incident thats for sure.. But ~90 people will die on the roads in america today.. Most you you will still drive to work without a second thought or even consider banning cars..

Its not the guns that are killing people.

[RICEY]

Pieces of shit like this need to just kill themselves and leave innocents out of it.

[RICEY]

Its a tragic incident thats for sure.. But ~90 people will die on the roads in america today.. Most you you will still drive to work without a second thought or even consider banning cars..

Its not the guns that are killing people.

If the guns werent so easy to get this may never have happened.

[DRKWRX]

Its a tragic incident thats for sure.. But ~90 people will die on the roads in america today.. Most you you will still drive to work without a second thought or even consider banning cars..

Its not the guns that are killing people.

cant compare "accidents" with someone with intent going around shooting a bunch of kids, and Im fairly sure it is the guns killing the people..........

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2012/08/guns-in-america-a-statistical-look/

Violent crime rates have been falling in recent years, but the number of people killed by firearms in the United States remains high. According to the FBI Uniform Crime Report, between 2006 and 2010 47,856 people were murdered in the U.S. by firearms, more than twice as many as were killed by all other means combined.

[Phyber]

I'm always left with the question of "why" in these situations. I can't understand why he'd go after the kids just because his mother taught them, I assume he had it in for his mother for some reason and he somehow justified it at the time.

A terrible, sad event. My mother is American and was always glad she raised me here and not in her home state of California.

[RICEY]

And the fact guns are designed to kill people, cars are not. Not the best comparison.

[Joe]

Until the 1970s, cars were death traps.

There have been huge decreases in fatalities with seat belts, airbags, crumple zones, etc. People resisted wearing seatbelts at first but most wear them now.

Although deaths still occur on the roads, the level of fatalities are massively reduced since before these changes were made.

Same goes for guns. People and government in America need to first recognise there is a problem and then make incremental changes to achieve the goal of reduced gun violence, to reduce the level of fatal shootings.

Also before anyone says "laws won't do anything, because criminals don't follow laws anyway".. Harsh mandatory sentencing for possession, sale, or use of unlicensed assault weapons and semi automatic weapons would be a start.

[shifted]

cant compare "accidents" with someone with intent going around shooting a bunch of kids, and Im fairly sure it is the guns killing the people..........

It's not like a gun makes a conscious decision to go "oh hey, I'm going to shoot some school kids today" - it's the psychotic end user.

Out of an entire population there'll be some muppet who shouldn't be partaking in society, but how do you find them without them doing something to be caught for?

Guns may be easy to get over there, but if that guy had the thought to go and do such an appalling act, it wouldn't matter if there was a gun or not - he'd still go and commit something atrocious, he could have used any other weapon also. Guns just make it easier really.

[Joe]

Guns may be easy to get over there, but if that guy had the thought to go and do such an appalling act, it wouldn't matter if there was a gun or not - he'd still go and commit something atrocious, he could have used any other weapon also. Guns just make it easier really.

There are psychos in Australia too.. How often do such incidents occur here? Although we have 8 percent of their population, it only occurs in this country a tiny fraction of a percentage of how often it happens in the USA.

It's because a nut job here can't just get a baseball bat, or a knife, and take out multiple people in a small period of time like they could with an automatic or semi automatic weapon.

How many massacres have been committed without guns in the USA?

[Sebdullah]

just on the car subject, pretty sure it's still optional to wear seatbelts in america, at least it was last time I was there so the rule may have changed since then

[DRKWRX]

Agree with Joe, you can't defend guns with any logic they are designed to kill people and make it very easy to kill a large amount of people quickly, of course there are probably people who actually use guns for a purpose (farmers etc)

[DISTRBD]

How many massacres have been committed without guns in the USA?


Oklahoma bombings n twin towers ..

[DISTRBD]

Interesting video

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/sj9wahCTz08" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[1JZVL]

Ammmmerrrrrica fuck yeah!

[brynj]

Muppets contradicting themselves when they question why they were stopped under reasonable suspicion laws, then going on to say all these weapons could be fully automatic.

Too many internet lawyers, not enough common sense. Somehow American patriotism has progressed to a god given right to carry a weapon.

[Adr3naL1N]

RIP. My thoughts are with the families now :( such a tragedy.

From looks of obamas speech it sounded as if he would be planning to bring up gun control at congress. I hope he actually does and tries to do something. Time will tell. I know even after this there will still be alot of people against limiting guns. Its just in the americans nature just in the same way as peoples choice to have cigarettes. NRA etc will fight it if its bought up.

And this muppet here, one of the major things wrong with some people in america, blaming it on not having god in schools.....facepalm:

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/2012/12/15/10/48/absence-of-god-in-schools-to-blame-huckabee

[JBAE]

Agree with Joe, you can't defend guns with any logic they are designed to kill people and make it very easy to kill a large amount of people quickly, of course there are probably people who actually use guns for a purpose (farmers etc)

Yup that's exactly correct firearms sole purpose in life is to kill people....

[Sebdullah]

Yup that's exactly correct firearms sole purpose in life is to kill people....

not sure if srs or sarcasm

[JBAE]

I say n do some silly shit but I'm not THAT retarded.

[Sebdullah]

I'm aware of this (more than most) just thought you might be implying a gun does have other purposes besides just killing people like feral animals, hunting, etc, that's all

[Niva]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Db0Y4qIZ4PA

Bullet controll - Chris rock.

/problem

[duste]

The Reuters story went on to report: “Since the Virginia Tech shootings, some conservative U.S. talk show hosts have rejected attempts to link the massacre to the availability of guns, arguing that had students been allowed to carry weapons on campus someone might have been able to shoot the killer.”


Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2007/04/41196/#dxyokzfPHJJrO5T8.99

Holy batballs, the thought and logic process of some individuals genuinely astounds me.

[DISTRBD]

Why wasn't there any talk last week about gun control and banning automatic weapons ?

[Brockas]

I wanna hear what Ja Rule thinks about this.

[DRKWRX]

Yup that's exactly correct firearms sole purpose in life is to kill people....

Pretty much, like I said apart from people using them on farms etc, there is no need for people living in Suburbia to own guns.

[Brockas]

Pretty much, like I said apart from people using them on farms etc, there is no need for people living in Suburbia to own guns.
Ever thought people enjoy shooting?

Not shooting people, but shooting as a sport.


Australia's gun control is perfect. We don't get nutjobs shooting 40 people 3x a year. If you want to tighten restrictions on Australians owning guns because of an event in the USA then you're logic is just as flawed as anti-hoon activists wanting a crackdown on burnouts after a drunk driver does 180km/h on the freeway and crashes.

[fourseven]

And yet as said, people living in certain towns in the US where firearm ownership is mandatory have the lowest crime rates in the country. I see a need for owning a gun in the suburbs, especially with the number and seriousness of home invasions in this state.

Gun control won't fix the problem, it'll simply stop a couple of extra massacres happening every few years. And at what cost? Criminals knowing that citizens can't use castle doctrine.

Knee jerk reactions.

[DRKWRX]

Ever thought people enjoy shooting?

Not shooting people, but shooting as a sport.


Australia's gun control is perfect. We don't get nutjobs shooting 40 people 3x a year. If you want to tighten restrictions on Australians owning guns because of an event in the USA then you're logic is just as flawed as anti-hoon activists wanting a crackdown on burnouts after a drunk driver does 180km/h on the freeway and crashes.

I think people should be able to shoot at gun clubs but the guns should stay at the clubs, I was talking about Americas gun laws not gun laws in Australia, its too late anyways to change Americas gun problem there are too many guns out there.

you want a gun because of home invasions but in how many home invasions you here about in Aus do the criminals have guns? looser gun laws would just make it easier for them to get guns aswell.

[Roobiks]

Pretty much, like I said apart from people using them on farms etc, there is no need for people living in Suburbia to own guns.
Are you forgetting it's a sport? A mate of mine shot F-class at an international level and lives in suburbia.. Should I tell him he should move out bush to legitimise his ownership?

Everyone is soo strung up on gun control laws in the US, what about fertiliser control laws in Pakistan? What about computer component control laws in Iran? Hell, these days they kill more people each year then guns ever did in the US!

At the end of the day, people will always want to kill other people, and will always find the most efficient or most devastating way to do it. Why not stop looking at the method of delivery as the problem and start looking at the people fucking employing that method.

[DRKWRX]

taking what I am saying to the extreme and my point seem to going over your head, read my post above.

[Fukushima]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=9jGtAcDefHg



still relevant 10 years later.

[JBAE]

I'm aware of this (more than most) just thought you might be implying a gun does have other purposes besides just killing people like feral animals, hunting, etc, that's all

Lol appologies for lack of italics ahaha being sarcastic mang you know I <3 my guns!

Office pop fo lyfe!

[fourseven]

Lol at Jim Jeffries.


People say that if you make guns illegal the bad guys will still get them anyway. The kid was autistic I don't think he had that many connections to the black market.

[RICEY]

America's fucked and beyond help. Changing laws will do nothing.

They will continue to kill each other and people will continue to ignore warning signs from faggots that end up going on killing sprees because they can't get it up.

Best solution would be to level the place and start fresh.

[DISTRBD]

They will continue to kill each other and people will continue to ignore warning signs from faggots that end up going on killing sprees because they can't get it up.

.

90 school shootings with over 200 dead before this event ..



If people think they will change then you are just as fucking stupid .. Fucking Americans can eat a dick , tragedys happen world wide on a daily basis yet the USA get the headline act :/ Fuck the pingpingpingpings

[OmEg_A7]

"It's also emerged that the weapons used in the massacre were registered to Nancy Lanza, who was found dead in her home - making her the 28th victim of the shooting spree."
Taken from Perthnow

Don't think tighter laws would have helped much in this situation.

[mehow2g]

Gun control isn't the problem guys who use them to kill people are.

Just like cars they don't kill people the driver does.

Gun control will just add another market people will start selling guns illegally etc.

[TJ]

America already has a rampant black market for guns.

The problem is so ingrained that any law would me a multi-generational issue to implement fully.

[TJ]

http://i.imgur.com/cW0hY.jpg

[DISTRBD]

America already has a rampant black market for guns.

.

LOL not only the USA , can buy weapons here quite easily :/

[summoner]

In state of CO where my best friend used to live it is beyond easy to get a firearm should you wish to do a mass shooting.

Go in to Dickies (it's a sport store, we went in at 9pm on a week night)
Go to gun counter
point at fire arm you want
present them your green card and they do a quick phone call
10 minutes later you can walk out with your firearm be it shot gun or assault rifle..

But I do find ownership of firearms to be a bit draconian in australia but at least civil ownership isn't completely banned. Somewhere there is a happy medium

[fourseven]

Colorado is a perfect example of how gun control doesn't work. Massive law changes after the Columbine massacre didn't stop Aurora!

I'll never forget reading about one of the survivors admitting that he has a carry conceal permit, and rarely goes anywhere without his firearm. But when he went to see The Dark Knight Rises he left it at home. Can't deny the fact that if he was armed he probably could've taken out the shooter and saved plenty of lives.

[Brockas]

Gun control isn't the problem guys who use them to kill people are.
Well duh, but it's impossible from stopping people being psychopaths.

I'm just glad I live in a country that ensures when some closet psycho does loop out all thats easily accessible is a kitchen knife!

[Rich]

This is a terrible tragedy! and with so many kids makes it so much worse. It makes me angry that people use tragic events like this to play political games and push their agendas.


I think it has been proven that no matter how many guns people are allowed it only takes one person to flip out. The damage is done before most people can react.

spot on. it just takes one person to flip out. this guy was obviously intent on killing a lot of people and himself today. do you think that if he was unsuccessful at obtaining a gun that he would have just given up and never thought about it again? I highly doubt it. if a nut case wants to kill a lot of people in a hurry then they will find away. He could of walked into the school and detonated a bomb. He could of plowed a truck into the side of a school bus. He could of poisoned the water. If you think that this only happened because a gun was involved then you are an idiot!

Personally if I ever find myself in a room with a nut case I would prefer they had a gun than a bomb. At least you would see it coming and you or someone else might have a chance in stopping it before they kill everyone.


Pretty much, like I said apart from people using them on farms etc, there is no need for people living in Suburbia to own guns.

that is a joke. you may as well go and join all the other misinformed today tonight believers on their band wagon with their anti-hoon campaign. Applying your logic there is also no need for anyone who lives in suburbia to own a modified car, or in fact any car that can travel at more than 110kph regardless of whether you use it legally on the track for sport. and there is also no need for anyone who lives in suburbia to own a ridiculous jacked up 4WD even if you do go offroading or camping. If you live in suburbia get a normal car like everyone else. fuck your sport, fuck your hobbies is what you are saying.

[Fukushima]

i'm with brockas on this one. you guys can whine about our laws but how many massacres have we had since port arthur?


there was that one chinese dude who looped out and managed to kill 2 people and wound 5. give him some 20 bullet clips or a semi automatic rifle and he would have done a lot more damage

[TJ]

Guns didn't cause this but they fucking enabled it and nothing you can ever say will change how most people feel about this.

[TJ]

coincidentally, a guy attacked 22 people at a primary school in China yesterday as well, he was only armed with a knife. Zero fatalities.

[Rich]

Guns didn't cause this but they fucking enabled it and nothing you can ever say will change how most people feel about this.

cant change that a lot of people are idiots. just life I guess.

[JBAE]

coincidentally, a guy attacked 22 people at a primary school in China yesterday as well, he was only armed with a knife. Zero fatalities.
being chinese the knife likely rusted away between being drawn from the sheath and attempting to stab....

[Rich]

while we are on the topic of over reactions and stupid ideas that wont solve problems....

time to ban golf....

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/south-australia/sa-man-beaten-to-death-in-mackay-queensland/story-e6frea83-1225790926089

time to ban cricket....

http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/woman-beaten-to-death-with-cricket-bat-9965

might have been able to defend herself if she was carrying a fire arm.

time to ban baseball....

http://www.azcentral.com/community/phoenix/articles/2012/10/12/20121012phoenix-man-beaten-death-baseball-bat.html?nclick_check=1

time to ban cooking....

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/boxers-death-man-found-guilty-of-manslaughter-20121105-28t5v.html

http://www.thisisdevon.co.uk/Newton-Abbot-man-beaten-death-frying-pan/story-16790888-detail/story.html

[JBAE]

should definently Ban busses! Drove past after some poor hombre made love to the front of one today in gateways... that shit turned fatal!

[Nic_A31]

Well duh, but it's impossible from stopping people being psychopaths.

I'm just glad I live in a country that ensures when some closet psycho does loop out all thats easily accessible is a kitchen knife!

You'd rather be stabbed than shot ?

[duste]

You'd rather be stabbed than shot ?

Lol?

Last I checked an assailant needs to be within arms reach to stab someone (not including ninjas throwing knives), yet a significantly larger distance is possible to shoot someone.

[DISTRBD]

Well duh, but it's impossible from stopping people being psychopaths.

I'm just glad I live in a country that ensures when some closet psycho does loop out all thats easily accessible is a kitchen knife!

I thought BLAAA had guns ??

[fourseven]

i'm with brockas on this one. you guys can whine about our laws but how many massacres have we had since port arthur?

Every major gun-related massacre Australia has had the guns used are still available to legally own today.
With the exception of Port Arthur the guns used in all of the killings were licensed and owned legally.
Martin Bryant had a gun licence and owned several guns legally but simply didn't have the right class on his licence for the rifles he had. All it would've taken was another piece of paper filled out to own them legally.

Of the buyback scheme, only an estimated 9% of firearms handed in were illegal under the new laws, the other 91% legal to own but owners looking for an easy dollar. We could have massacres tomorrow just as easy as back then. NONE of the killings in Australia were carried out using semi-automatic assault rifles. The laws here are flat out ridiculous.

My family invested hundres of thousands of dollars fighting and campaigning the state government when we ran WASP Paintball. You could still go out and register a shotgun that could kill someone instantly, but couldn't register a paintball marker. The cops would raid us, seize the markers, and the magistrate would give them back 2 weeks later realising how stupid the whole system was.

Our gun laws were a knee jerk response from a newly elected Prime Minister, pretty much the same as any new law in this country.

[Marti]

gun control wont do shit,if someone wants a gun bad ebnough they will get one(illegally), people should be screened a little better to prevent shit like this, conceal carry would have worked in this instence.If the teachers/ bystander were carrying they could have stopped this.But because the state doesnt allow it, innocent people were killed

[JBAE]

NZ is a good example they still have half decent laws... dont see them in the news every few months with firearm related sprees.

[fourseven]

gun control wont do shit,if someone wants a gun bad ebnough they will get one(illegally), people should be screened a little better to prevent shit like this, conceal carry would have worked in this instence.If the teachers/ bystander were carrying they could have stopped this.But because the state doesnt allow it, innocent people were killed

Connecticut have some of the toughest gun control laws in the US, but they do allow conceal carry and open carry with permit.

It's the "eligibility" that bends people over. It's expensive, labor intensive, and requires excessive time to get a permit to purchase a handgun. With the exception of conceal carry and open carry, the rest of their laws are pretty much identical to ours, and people still died.

Maybe we need even tougher gun control!

[esky]

Canada has more guns per capita then the USA. How many massacres do you hear of there?

[Fukushima]

Look I dont like the nanny state any more than you do.

But the fact is prior to 1996 we had plenty of shooting incidents where 10 or so people were shot, now there are significant barriers to that and it just doesn't happen.

You gun guys are the ultimate idealists. In your unlimited gun world someone will be around with a concealed weapon and save the day.
In our world the nutter cant get a gun easily and if they do get one magazine capacity, ammunition types, and lethality are all reduced and it shows in the fact we haven't had a proper shooting spree since 1996

[Madhav]

Add doctors to the list..


Doctors Are The Third Leading Cause of Death in the US, Killing 225,000 People Every Year.

ALL THESE ARE DEATHS PER YEAR:

12,000 -- unnecessary surgery
7,000 -- medication errors in hospitals
20,000 -- other errors in hospitals
80,000 -- infections in hospitals
106,000 -- non-error, negative effects of drugs


http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2000/07/30/doctors-death-part-one.aspx

See full article from of the Journal of American Medical association here: http://silver.neep.wisc.edu/~lakes/iatrogenic.pdf

[esky]

Yes, staying home and eating herbs would save so many more lives.

[Fukushima]

Oh. And I really enjoy shooting. When I was 15 every holidays I went out to a property near Ingham and we'd cruise around in a 100 series with a .410 a 22 scoped rifle and a 6 round 12 gauge semi auto (i think that might have been illegal). We'd shoot anything we could including birds, rabbits, cans, bottles, old washing machines and car bodies. Was the best and noone in their right mind now would let teens do what we did completely unsupervised.

When I go overseas I always want to go to a range. Never bothered here I imagine it would be expensive and shit and full of safety briefings.

But when I have kids I wont have to worry about someone shooting up their mums preschool class because they didn't feel listened to

[fourseven]

You gun guys are the ultimate idealists. In your unlimited gun world someone will be around with a concealed weapon and save the day.

I don't want anyone else around. I want the option of carrying a concealed weapon to protect myself and my family.

We've had 7 major shootings since 1901. The firearms I can go and buy this month are no less lethal and take no less ammunition than before Howard's gun control laws. I can still buy the same type of rifle Martin Bryant used!

If you think we don't have to worry about another massacre you're incredibly naive. The perfect example, BLAAA owns several firearms. Now I know we joke about this, but I've seen BLAAA lose the plot. It could easily be him wiping pingpingpingpings out tomorrow. The difference between you and me is I wan't to know I've got the capability to kill him if he loses the plot and starts firing at people, but I'm not allowed to apply for a carry conceal permit. All I can do is run away and hope to survive.

Fuck that.

[evo5aurus]

The difference between you and me is I wan't to know I've got the capability to kill him if he loses the plot and starts firing at people, but I'm not allowed to apply for a carry conceal permit. All I can do is run away and hope to survive.

Fuck that.

and what's to stop you from losing the plot and pulling out your concealed weapon that you carry everywhere? We don't live in the fucking wild west, you're incredibly naive if you think that every pingpingpingping carrying a concealed gun everywhere would solve more problems than it would create.

[Fukushima]

one of the benefits of our nanny state is that if Blaa starts looping the cops will be there emptying his safe touch wood well before he gets that unstable

[summoner]

since everyone seems to be able to easily get illegal fire arms, hit me up in PM thanks as I can't be assed going through the loops required just for a plinker kthx.

[fourseven]

and what's to stop you from losing the plot and pulling out your concealed weapon that you carry everywhere? We don't live in the fucking wild west, you're incredibly naive if you think that every pingpingpingping carrying a concealed gun everywhere would solve more problems than it would create.

What's to stop me pulling out my higher powered shotgun and doing the same thing?

Before you criticise, I'm not against gun control. But our gun control is back to front, and fucked up. The weapon of choice for all killers is a long gun, the easiest fucking thing to licence and obtain in this country.

I'm not suggesting allowing everyone to carry a concealed weapon either. But it would be nice to have the option. In terms of solving problems, Police open carry, they solve more problems than they create :)

[Phyber]

Re-reading this thread with mp3s on and what plays? Pumped Up Kicks by Foster The People. Wow. :/

There was a comment on how because it's the US it gets massive media coverage. Maybe we like to see shit go badly there because we resent their cultural influence. I know I do. Tall poppy syndrome if you like, though I only detest the trashy TV shows and mindless pop music. Oh and the general world police foreign policy.

Still fucking sad for the families though, and undeserved.

[evo5aurus]

What's to stop me pulling out my higher powered shotgun and doing the same thing?

Before you criticise, I'm not against gun control. But our gun control is back to front, and fucked up. The weapon of choice for all killers is a long gun, the easiest fucking thing to licence and obtain in this country.

I'm not suggesting allowing everyone to carry a concealed weapon either. But it would be nice to have the option. In terms of solving problems, Police open carry, they solve more problems than they create :)

Totally agree with the shotgun but you don't carry that everywhere like you (potentially) could with a concealed hand gun. IMO you probably can't stop a premeditated and carefully thought out massacre but most people who, in a moment of blind rage, feel like shooting someone would probably change their mind by the time they get home, open their gun safe and return to the scene - potentially a different story if all they have to do is unholster a gun they are already carrying.

Police undergo extensive training and checks to carry a firearm... (well presumably). I have no problem with someone carrying a firearm who is as qualified and regulated like the police.

[Fukushima]

Restricted access prevents stupidity.

My grandad was a catholic from northern Ireland but not really involved in the troubles. On his way home one day a group of british soldiers stole his bike at a roadblock. He was mega pissed and went home to get his gun.

Fortunately he'd run out of ammunition and calmed down by the time he'd bought some or I wouldn't be here today :-)





Before you criticise, I'm not against gun control. But our gun control is back to front, and fucked up. The weapon of choice for all killers is a long gun, the easiest fucking thing to licence and obtain in this country.

I have to admit I feel dirty posting this... but...

http://sphotos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/598613_10151208928408860_503600772_n.jpg


Also http://m.injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/12/6/365.full


In the 18 years before the gun law reforms, there were 13 mass shootings in Australia, and none in the 10.5 years afterwards. Declines in firearm-related deaths before the law reforms accelerated after the reforms for total firearm deaths (p = 0.04), firearm suicides (p = 0.007) and firearm homicides (p = 0.15), but not for the smallest category of unintentional firearm deaths, which increased. No evidence of substitution effect for suicides or homicides was observed. The rates per 100 000 of total firearm deaths, firearm homicides and firearm suicides all at least doubled their existing rates of decline after the revised gun laws.

[Marti]

We are a police state and as such, you have all these innocent people being bashed and robbed. an attacker is less likely to rob you if yo udrew your concealed weapon under life threatening situation

[Roobiks]

I look at banning guns for a reason like this with as much intellectual respect as I do the prospect of banning Big Macs because fat pingpingpingpings have heart attacks.
None.

Look into changing the shit people of contemporary times, not the products that have been around well before any of our or the last few generations were here.

[duste]

We are a police state and as such, you have all these innocent people being bashed and robbed. an attacker is less likely to rob you if yo udrew your concealed weapon under life threatening situation

And what happens when the attacker also starts concealing a weapon in anticipation of the victim having a concealed weapon? Quick-draw.

I'll also give you one guess as to who would be quicker to their gun. Hint: It's the one who knows what's about to happen.

As much as some of you would like to believe it, more guns is not the answer.

[Marti]

Youve just proven a main point, banning guns will not solve any problems.if a criminal wants a gun bad enough, wants to cause death and destruction. they will find away

[DISTRBD]

Youve just proven a main point, banning guns will not solve any problems.if a criminal wants a gun bad enough, wants to cause death and destruction. they will find away

Spot on , the pingpingpingpings will just keep raiding farms looking for guns to steal .

[Sully]

Yeah they'll always be able to get a gun but it'd deter a few if it was a bit harder for them get one. Like you've all said, by the time you go get your gun then traipse back to scatter brains you've usually had a rethink. I know we're talking about crazies here but it's a pretty simple equation, if there's more guns available then some simple multiplication will tell you that there's probably going to be more gun related violence.

How many of you lot have had a home invasion or been mugged/robbed/had an altercation with someone that would have definitely ended badly for either you or them if one or both of you had a gun on you?

[summoner]

I have to admit I feel dirty posting this... but...

http://sphotos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/598613_10151208928408860_503600772_n.jpg


West Germany eh... :p

[YOUR MATE]

I am honestly lost for words at anyone who can argue the point that being able to access handguns etc is the way things should be here. How many times have those people had a gun pulled on them? None. Fucking none. Where would it end? Someone stole a tank a few years back. I won't feel safe until I can have my own damn tank. To protect my loved ones... Get fucked. Criminals can and will get hold of things. You owning a gun won't change that. Having a gun won't make you a stone cold James Bond Call-of-duty motherfucker either. Talking about taking lives like it's business as usual.

I personally don't think this tragedy is to be fixed by gun control as much as it is an attitude adjustment. In America it is the thing to do. You're the loner/reject/different kid. You don't have mates. You go rampaging. It is just expected. It's part of their culture. Just as much as offing yourself online and making sure the world knows, even over trivial shit. It all happens more and more and really, I think, only because it's what's expected. And the same things happen every time. People cry, rage, accuse others and point fingers at groups of people nothing to do with it. All of which solves nothing.

My rant has no suggestions on how to fix things because I have no fucking idea about it. I just consider myself lucky that I live here as whatever the laws are, them combined with the attitude of the people here, work.

Edit: Morgan Freeman knows what I mean. http://www.examiner.com/article/morgan-freeman-on-adam-lanza

[Rich]

need to level the playing field. either no one has guns or everyone has guns. so until they can work out a way to get every illegal unlicensed gun off the streets everyone should have the right to choose to own and even carry a fire arm. a lot of the anti-gun haters feel the way they do because they dont understand firearms, they have never used them and they are scared of them. should be more education similar to the whole young driver/hoon/attitude debate that comes up all the time. Start young and teach them how to safely handle handle a firearm.

http://www.guntrustlawyer.com/girl_with_silencer.jpg

also posted because shes a bit of a milf

http://backwoodshome.com/blogs/MassadAyoob/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/EOC_01.jpg

[Madhav]

. Start young and teach them how to safely handle handle a firearm.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-VDfL7Be75x0/ToX0fN8x6mI/AAAAAAAACGY/RRIvQojiaZ4/s1600/093011+kid+with+gun.jpg

[Tones]

I have friends I wouldn't trust with a bread knife and people are talking about guns for all. Are you all fucking retarded? That is seriously the worst idea!! Instead of Controlling the situation let's just make it a free for all and see who's left standing. I for one would most definitely not feel safe knowing that some of the degenerate Fucks of Perth could be carrying a weapon. We wouldn't be reading about glassings at nightclubs it would be shootings.

Leave laws as they are, especially in this country. Get pingpingpingpings into mental health clinics/beds and get shit sorted at the source of the problem. As said it's not guns killing others its the people behind the gun that are.

These people are fucked in the head and need help. Not easier access to weapons. That link to the Morgan Freeman quote couldn't speak more truth. These people are doing it to be remembered.

[Joe]

Great idea getting kids to learn how to handle weapons.




http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27399337/ns/us_news-life/t/boy-accidentally-kills-self-gun-show/

[mr_rotary]

Worst thread of the year.

We have people talking on here about their views on gun control in another country they don't live in, understand their culture, what freedom actually means or let alone able to recite the 2nd ammendment and understand it. We may as well start up a thread discussing how me are actually going to cure cancer.

What I feel sorry for just like all car nuts and the bashing we get is the 99.something percent of actual responsible gun owners.

[morgazmatron]

My views obviously don't count for anything. But just a hypothetical to people who think gun control isn't the answer...

Say USA change their gun laws to say something similar to ours (restricting semi auto and the likes). And by doing that, 1 persons life is saved in the future. By who ever is shooting at the time needing more time to actually pull the trigger. And the victims have more chance of escaping.

Would that persons life be worth it?.. That is worth more than the right to keep semi auto weapons.

Genuinely interested to know..

[RICEY]

need to level the playing field. either no one has guns or everyone has guns. so until they can work out a way to get every illegal unlicensed gun off the streets everyone should have the right to choose to own and even carry a fire arm. a lot of the anti-gun haters feel the way they do because they dont understand firearms, they have never used them and they are scared of them. should be more education similar to the whole young driver/hoon/attitude debate that comes up all the time. Start young and teach them how to safely handle handle a firearm.

http://www.guntrustlawyer.com/girl_with_silencer.jpg



also posted because shes a bit of a milf

http://backwoodshome.com/blogs/MassadAyoob/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/EOC_01.jpg

This everyone has the right to own a firearm bullshit is just that, bullshit.

Mentally unstable people should not own or have access to guns. Acquiring one should require a psych test and a clean criminal record.

And continuing to compare guns to cars is still retarded. But then again most pro gun arguments are. Im not anti guns by any means, Im simply anti everyone has the right to have guns.

[INSINR8R]

Can anyone name one person who was considered mentally unstable before they went on a shooting spree? Or had a violent criminal record? Majority of sprees, the guns were legally owned and purchased by the shooter. What does that tell you?

Every time it happens, what are the comments by people that knew the person? They were quiet and generally kept to themselves. Or they were a good kid, never looked to have a violent side.

Every. Single. Time.

That fuckwit that shot those people in Aurora, he was considered normal. Now, he's trying what ever he can to prove he's insane. Creeping out other prisoners. Banging his head on the wall. Biting his tongue. Spitting at officers. Talking to himself. He knows enough on how to "plead insanity".

I believe there truly are mentally unstable people out there. But unless someone points it out, you'll never know. You can't just assume it's those people who'll do it. Sometimes it can happen over an argument, or rejection, or social isolation.

There will never be a solution to the problem. No, we haven't had a mass murder with firearms here since Port Arthur, but what about the increase in shootings in NSW over the last few months? Not a mass murder, but now starting to hear about it more often.

[evo5aurus]

but what about the increase in shootings in NSW over the last few months? Not a mass murder, but now starting to hear about it more often.

because internet?

[RICEY]

Can anyone name one person who was considered mentally unstable before they went on a shooting spree? Or had a violent criminal record? Majority of sprees, the guns were legally owned and purchased by the shooter. What does that tell you?

Every time it happens, what are the comments by people that knew the person? They were quiet and generally kept to themselves. Or they were a good kid, never looked to have a violent side.

Every. Single. Time.

That fuckwit that shot those people in Aurora, he was considered normal. Now, he's trying what ever he can to prove he's insane. Creeping out other prisoners. Banging his head on the wall. Biting his tongue. Spitting at officers. Talking to himself. He knows enough on how to "plead insanity".

I believe there truly are mentally unstable people out there. But unless someone points it out, you'll never know. You can't just assume it's those people who'll do it. Sometimes it can happen over an argument, or rejection, or social isolation.

There will never be a solution to the problem. No, we haven't had a mass murder with firearms here since Port Arthur, but what about the increase in shootings in NSW over the last few months? Not a mass murder, but now starting to hear about it more often.

How many of them had psych tests? Proves my point doesnt it?

[Chivalry]

Face it, the only person in the world who should have guns is the guy from FPS Russia.

Gun control arguments on the internet give me migraines, it's like that whole import vs domestic bullshit 10 years ago.

[Marti]

All you who think guns are the evil. Then your all fried. Unstable people behind guns cause problems. Further more if anyone thinks that disarming people is a great idea then look at Britain. Britain has a no gun law yet pingpingpingpings are still being shot on a daily basis.if America did psych tests and a better back ground check into people then these problems would be very rare

[blackjack]

Unstable people without guns cause less problems.

[Tones]

Ricey hit the nail on the head. How many of these guys actually have mental health checks beforehand. How many had a friend or family member actually sit down and listen to what they had to say? Being "quiet, and kept to himself" isn't always a good thing.

It's when people look back without rose tinted glasses do we see the signs.
In the last couple years I've had 2 friends commit suicide and at the time we thought they were good. Looking back now shit stands out.

[INSINR8R]

In the last couple years I've had 2 friends commit suicide and at the time we thought they were good. Looking back now shit stands out.

I don't know the circumstances of how or why your friends committed suicide, and I'm sorry to hear it but that proves my point. Hindsight is a beautiful thing but unless they show any signs, what can you do? How were you to know that there was anything wrong until it was too late?

That is the case with a lot of the people who commit these rampages, not all, but most. Some people are so well at putting up a front that you didn't or wouldn't know there was a problem until it was too late. So how do you have someone's mental stability tested if they show no signs of instability at all or if they seem fine?

It's a tragic case of events, especially involving innocent children. I feel sorry for those who lost their children in this horrific shooting and I don't wish this for anyone. There isn't a quick or permanent solution. Banning or restricting guns won't help in the US.

I'm not against guns at all. I like them and I am fascinated by them. I would never think of ever doing what these people have done, I would not want to cause that amount of pain even if it was caused to me. But I don't think there will ever be a solution to the problem.

[jzx_andy]

feel so bad for the children and their families, no one deserves to go through this sort of experience in life..

re gun laws, everything that has been said has been said prior to the incident anyway.... overall, america is just a fucked up place to live - and it will be worse in 10 years.

[RICEY]

So how do you have someone's mental stability tested if they show no signs of instability at all or if they seem fine?



By taking them to a psychologist? It's pretty simple, you want a gun then you have to have the test.

[INSINR8R]

But the evaluation may not prove mental illness.

Anyone can snap at any time, having a mental health issue is not always the contributing factor the crime.

In Connecticut, persons under 21 are unable to obtain a firearms license at all. Adam Lanza's mum owned the guns. How he got a hold of them is what they are trying to find out. Were they locked in a cabinet, or were they easily accessible?

Here is a debate on the issue of Mental Health evaluations before purchasing a gun in the US.
http://www.debate.org/debates/Mental-health-evaluations-should-be-required-in-order-to-buy-a-firearm/1/

[Rich]

Great idea getting kids to learn how to handle weapons.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27399337/ns/us_news-life/t/boy-accidentally-kills-self-gun-show/

another terrible tragedy! but after reading the story it sounds more like bad parenting than a gun control issue. The story could have easily read:

Boy, 8, accidently kills self at car show... the boy lost control of the car while driving it under adult supervision.

If you let your kids do something stupid this is exactly what can happen. same reason you wouldnt let an 8 year old drive a car.

Teaching kids to shoot at young age is a good thing and it is very different from allowing kids to have their own guns unsupervised at a young age. There are a lot of examples around there world where kids have shot them selves accidently with guns because they didnt know how to use them safely. Their parents hid the guns away from them, they get curious so they go looking for the guns and experiment with them. I was taught to shoot at a young age. I understood guns, I knew how they worked, what all the parts did and how to handle them safely and we never had any problems with them. Gun education from a young age is a good thing! even if you dont own a gun yourself. do you think just because you dont own a gun that your kid wont go around to a friends place one day, and their friend says hey my dad has a gun want to play with it. Their friend might not know how to handle it safely because they were never taught, but if your kid knows how to clear a weapon, not hold it with their finger on the trigger and not point it at anyone even if its unloaded then it might just save their life!


This everyone has the right to own a firearm bullshit is just that, bullshit.

Mentally unstable people should not own or have access to guns. Acquiring one should require a psych test and a clean criminal record.

And continuing to compare guns to cars is still retarded. But then again most pro gun arguments are. Im not anti guns by any means, Im simply anti everyone has the right to have guns.

excellent idea that will do absolutely nothing to stop someone that cant get their own guns from stealing someone elses.

and I wasnt comparing owning guns to owning a car. I was comparing the stupid misinformed ideas that come out of the mouths of anti-gun activists to those comments made by the anti-hoon do gooders. Both types of people are idiots and simply hate on something they dont understand.

[TJ]

Anyone who compares cars to guns is more idiotic than can be described.

[31-EVO]

I have not read the whole thread, as the whole gun thing shits me to tears.

I will say one obvious thing.
Guns don't kill people, people kill people, but if you take away a majority of the guns you won't have such a widespread problem.
Sure, it may still happen, but it's a fact it will happen less often, or hey, here is a thought, fucking educate people. There are that many inbred and brain dead people in America, shit like this needs to be laid out in front of them in brail and size 40 times roman. It is sad, it is completely stupid, but sadly we all know it is part of American culture, and it will never change, the right to bare arms is something they love about their nation, we don't agree with it, lets all just be thankful we don't have to put up with it, apart from hearing about it.

[Stealthed]

Kid posted on /b/ that he was going to do something like this that'd break the news and the only clues he gave was that'd it'd be in Connecticut. I remember reading the thread not
thinking much of it at the time, this was about 2 days before it happened. Kind of a weird feeling really, it's certainly a very terrible situation.

RIP to all those poor kids, and their teachers that were unnecessarily taken away.

[Madhav]

There are so many factors that play a part. I think some forms of medication have side effects that could play a role in it...

See this list of shootings/violent crimes that went down with the offenders on their 'mental health' meds: http://ssristories.com/index.php

[Azrian]

If only he used some form of natural remedy instead of medication.

[Master D]

Guns dont kill people
People kill people........ But use guns as its a more effiecent manor in which to do so. We are optomising the killers choice by providing high round rate guns to help him get a rambo style body count!



The US is fucked.


Remember a victims name instead of the killer!
That fucker took his own life because he knew that if he didnt an entire nation would want him strung from the highest pole.

Selfish until the end.

[DISTRBD]

Well nothing has changed after the 90 odd shootings before this one , so why would you think this one will be any different ?

[SimonR32]

Guns don't kill people, people kill people... Nuclear Weapons don't kill people either, but I'd rather there were less of them around!

I really don't see the problem with restricting weapons that are only designed to kill humans (fully autos and hand guns). Finding the middle ground is the hard part, we in Australia probably went a little too heavy handed but hey, seems to be working.

[Adr3naL1N]

overall, america is just a fucked up place to live - and it will be worse in 10 years.

wow you really have no clue.

if americas a fucked place to live...cant imgaine what you think of poverty stricken africa nations, war torn middle east and the crime ridden south american nations.

ive spent alot of time in america and although it has its issues (a less then healthy economy, guns issue amongst a few others but dont most nations have some kind of problems?) it is far from a fucked place to live.

[esky]

All you who think guns are the evil. Then your all fried. Unstable people behind guns cause problems. Further more if anyone thinks that disarming people is a great idea then look at Britain. Britain has a no gun law yet pingpingpingpings are still being shot on a daily basis.if America did psych tests and a better back ground check into people then these problems would be very rare

lol.

There were 48 people killed last year in the uk by guns. There are 84 killed per day in the states by guns.

Better background checks...righto...lets look at the logic of that.
The FBI had 154,873 calls from firearms dealers for background checks on purchasers buying one or more firearms..........in one day.
The states purchase 4,500,000 new guns each year, on top of the 300,000,000 they already have.
90% of the adult population is estimated to own at least one gun, that's hundreds of millions of people. Now call me naive but how many hundreds of thousands of people would it take to do extensive background checks and psych tests on all these people?

The scale of the problem is huge. Simple oh do better background checks doesn't even come close to dealing with the issue.

[Fozzy]

http://sphotos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/64046_563487360332786_1838775109_n.jpg

[Fukushima]

There are so many factors that play a part. I think some forms of medication have side effects that could play a role in it...

See this list of shootings/violent crimes that went down with the offenders on their 'mental health' meds: http://ssristories.com/index.php


I have to tell you I am getting fucking sick of the number of admissions we are getting because the naturopath told them to cease antipsychotics. Coming off drugs with huge side effects must sound wonderful to you guys but then the patients lose limbs trying to kill themselves, threaten their parents with a machete or report their husband as a pedophile because they are acutely unwell.

Guess that's what you get when your patients live in Fremantle. They'll most likely be given painful fortnightly injections with increased side effects on a community treatment order because some crackpot thought he knew better and thought we were prescribing them for fun.

[Madhav]

I have to tell you I am getting fucking sick of the number of admissions we are getting because the naturopath told them to cease antipsychotics. Coming off drugs with huge side effects must sound wonderful to you guys but then the patients lose limbs trying to kill themselves, threaten their parents with a machete or report their husband as a pedophile because they are acutely unwell.

Guess that's what you get when your patients live in Fremantle. They'll most likely be given painful fortnightly injections with increased side effects on a community treatment order because some crackpot thought he knew better and thought we were prescribing them for fun.

As far as I'm concerned Naturopaths that directly advise their patients to come off antipsychotic meds should loose their license and be sued for negligence. We were taught to never recommend it under any circumstance, and if they absolutely insist on it, then we have to work in close collaboration with either their GP and mental health professional, or their psychiatrist. It is a very slow weening off/replacing with products like St. Johns Wort/SAMe treatment that requires close attention from all parties...

Naturopaths who take it on alone are asking for trouble and like I said it is considered in my eyes malpractice

[Fukushima]

Glad to hear that. Unfortunately there are a whole bunch of quacks around here no doubt not registered or accountable to anyone.

Here is an interesting perspective going back on topic


http://anarchistsoccermom.blogspot.com.au/2012/12/thinking-unthinkable.html?m=1

imagine your 8 year old pulling a knife on you?

[Sleepy]

I don't think there should be an argument that banning guns will reduce murders.
But will banning guns stop this kind of killing? Probably not, as it sounds like a bit of planning went into it.

Guns are great for people that don't want to get their hands dirty, take away the guns (or at least make them harder to get) and people might think twice before trying to kill someone.

[Roobiks]

I have to tell you I am getting fucking sick of the number of admissions we are getting because the naturopath told them to cease antipsychotics. Coming off drugs with huge side effects must sound wonderful to you guys but then the patients lose limbs trying to kill themselves, threaten their parents with a machete or report their husband as a pedophile because they are acutely unwell.

Guess that's what you get when your patients live in Fremantle. They'll most likely be given painful fortnightly injections with increased side effects on a community treatment order because some crackpot thought he knew better and thought we were prescribing them for fun.

Going off topic for a second but I completely agree. Fuck I hate hippies.
You know what they call alternative medicine that works? Medicine.

[stumps.]

Kid posted on /b/ that he was going to do something like this that'd break the news and the only clues he gave was that'd it'd be in Connecticut. I remember reading the thread not
thinking much of it at the time, this was about 2 days before it happened. Kind of a weird feeling really, it's certainly a very terrible situation.

RIP to all those poor kids, and their teachers that were unnecessarily taken away.

http://i.imgur.com/H2Zbs.jpg

SO sad

[TJ]

Guns are great for people that don't want to get their hands dirty, take away the guns (or at least make them harder to get) and people might think twice before trying to kill someone.

This - how many of these wannabe heros would have the ability or balls to go and kill 27 people face to face with a knife or bat?

[MadDocker]

That's fucked.

[Jumanji]

http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/yeah-quick-question.jpg

seriously that shit needs to be torn up. Although it never will be.

RIP to those that passed. They had their whole life ahead of them and had done nothing wrong. More so to the kids who witnessed this, as their innocence has now been taken from them.

Still reckon Chris Rock had a point in one of his movies that bullets should have a monumental tax on them. Maybe then people wouldnt be able to load the guns in the first place. It'll never happen but /csb.

[Fukushima]

Got to be shopped? I

[Stealthed]

http://i.imgur.com/H2Zbs.jpg

SO sad

I know, it's very sad and a tragic event. I read that thread when it started before and thought nothing of it, I mean it's not like anyone could know or do something about it but still..

[mr_rotary]

This - how many of these wannabe heros would have the ability or balls to go and kill 27 people face to face with a knife or bat?How do you think it happened before guns where invented?

[Fukushima]

How do you think it happened before guns where invented?

In those days misfits would have been taken out to the forest and abandoned. Or burned at the stake as witches.

[TJ]

How do you think it happened before guns where invented?

You seriously arnt comparing the 1700's to modern society?

[jzx_andy]

wow you really have no clue.

if americas a fucked place to live...cant imgaine what you think of poverty stricken africa nations, war torn middle east and the crime ridden south american nations.

ive spent alot of time in america and although it has its issues (a less then healthy economy, guns issue amongst a few others but dont most nations have some kind of problems?) it is far from a fucked place to live.

actually it is a fucked up place to live.. with the way things are, and the way they are headed over there, i'd never want to live there.

go compare it to other 'western' nations. pretty much the whole western world - canada, australia/NZ, northern europe, western europe, even eastern europe in some cases, and, more recently, china, are miles ahead of the US...

[esky]

The vast majority of America is virtually the same as Australia. Endless suburbs of middle class christian white people.

[yeahlow34]

actually it is a fucked up place to live..

So I take it you've lived there?

People might have thought Hobart was a fucked place to live, shortly after Martin Bryant's massacre. Would have thought it very naive to evaluate it based on an isolated event.

[jzx_andy]

So I take it you've lived there?

People might have thought Hobart was a fucked place to live, shortly after Martin Bryant's massacre. Would have thought it very naive to evaluate it based on an isolated event.

no, i know enough people that have and still do though.

it would be naive to evaluate hobart based on a single event, although ive had my own perception of living in the usa for a couple of years now, and nothing has changed it - its just made it worse...

[Adr3naL1N]

your perception could not be more wrong or further from reality

[DRKWRX]

This is a terrible tragedy! and with so many kids makes it so much worse. It makes me angry that people use tragic events like this to play political games and push their agendas.



spot on. it just takes one person to flip out. this guy was obviously intent on killing a lot of people and himself today. do you think that if he was unsuccessful at obtaining a gun that he would have just given up and never thought about it again? I highly doubt it. if a nut case wants to kill a lot of people in a hurry then they will find away. He could of walked into the school and detonated a bomb. He could of plowed a truck into the side of a school bus. He could of poisoned the water. If you think that this only happened because a gun was involved then you are an idiot!

Personally if I ever find myself in a room with a nut case I would prefer they had a gun than a bomb. At least you would see it coming and you or someone else might have a chance in stopping it before they kill everyone.



that is a joke. you may as well go and join all the other misinformed today tonight believers on their band wagon with their anti-hoon campaign. Applying your logic there is also no need for anyone who lives in suburbia to own a modified car, or in fact any car that can travel at more than 110kph regardless of whether you use it legally on the track for sport. and there is also no need for anyone who lives in suburbia to own a ridiculous jacked up 4WD even if you do go offroading or camping. If you live in suburbia get a normal car like everyone else. fuck your sport, fuck your hobbies is what you are saying.

Yeah because a modified car or 4x4 is designed to kill people, my logic is logical... People who defend guns are hilarious.

[shifted]

The scale of the problem is huge. Simple oh do better background checks doesn't even come close to dealing with the issue.

Reminds me of Lord of War... "how do we arm the other 10"

If the system was setup properly initially (though I assume people didn't foresee such issues) it wouldn't be hard to maintain it. However implementing a system now that involves psych tests and the like will be difficult, will take a lot of time, and will piss a lot of people off. Leaving it to continue without implementing it now just makes it more difficult in future.

There just comes a time when they need to make the change regardless of how difficult it may seem...


Yeah because a modified car or 4x4 is designed to kill people, my logic is logical... People who defend guns are hilarious.

I'd happily own a gun at home as a tool for protecting my property and household. I don't find that hilarious, I find that as a logical way to deter some fuckwit from breaking in.

Would the outcome be different if the schools had a deadlock system which locked once an alarm was set off? No one can get in or out until the alarm is turned off, it could stop a gunmen reaching multiple classrooms?

[DRKWRX]

yeah you would happily own a gun but im sure the criminal would like to have a gun when he breaks in too? could go on for thousands of hypothetical questions, was more comparing guns to a modified car or a lifted 4x4 I found hilarious.

[Marti]

If you shot someone after braking Into your house then you would get done seeing as you didn't use equal force(in Australia)the only way you can get a gun on Australia is either in sport or killing vermin on a Propety. But that is a completely different topic

[shifted]

If you shot someone after braking Into your house then you would get done seeing as you didn't use equal force(in Australia)the only way you can get a gun on Australia is either in sport or killing vermin on a Propety. But that is a completely different topic

I understand that, I meant more if it were legal like in the states - to protect your property.

Unfortunately in this country, the whole equal force thing is ridiculous. You should have a right to use whatever force is necessary to get someone off your property if they are trespassing. A huge win though was when a guy got let off on self defense after killing a burglar during a scuffle with the very knife the killer brought along (pretty sure this was a few months back?)

The laws probably won't ever change though, our society isn't ready for something like that, I can only imagine idiots shooting each other recklessly if it happens judging by the problems so far occurring everywhere over something as simple as not being given a smoke. Shit, people can't even tolerate booze.

PS. I wouldn't obviously shoot to kill if hypothetically I had a gun and someone was breaking in. I'd happily shoot to wound though (limbs) as a deterrent after sufficient warning was given.

[Marti]

I would only shoot to kill if they Person was going to cause harm to my family, if they just broken in and trying to steal shit, then a beating is in order not death

[bmgtz]

I would only shoot to kill if they Person was going to cause harm to my family, if they just broken in and trying to steal shit, then a beating is in order not death

it is a commendable thought..shoot to wound...not kill. Unfortunately hydrostatic shock will normally do the killing regardless of the intent to only wound unless you are using a very small calibre. In which case you run the risk of just pissing the attacker off! Also it is much harder to target something small in the heat of the moment on a moving target such as an arm or lower leg than the greatest area of mass such as the torso. Not only that but the time taken to do this aiming can be the difference between shooting the baddy.....or getting shot...stabbed etc. IF you pick up a gun and fire it at a person....be prepared to have their life on your conscience

[Rich]

Anyone who compares cars to guns is more idiotic than can be described.

as is suggesting that a psych test prior to obtaining a license could have prevented this when the guns were stolen from someone who might have been able to pass such a test.


Yeah because a modified car or 4x4 is designed to kill people, my logic is logical... People who defend guns are hilarious.

good to see that we agree that guns aren't the problem, its the people using them that are the problem.


yeah you would happily own a gun but im sure the criminal would like to have a gun when he breaks in too? could go on for thousands of hypothetical questions, was more comparing guns to a modified car or a lifted 4x4 I found hilarious.

was not comparing guns to owning a modified car, was comparing your attitude towards guns to that of people that don't like hoons, 4wd's in the city etc.

[SircatmaN]

I'm not going to comment on whether guns should be illegal or not but looking at it from another perspective in the early 1920's they banned alcohol which led to the rise of many crime syndicates/gangs etc. They then started the war on drugs which has so far cost more money and lives than any world war AFAIK (I have read this in some books and on the net, I may have gotten this wrong and can't back this up however im sure a quick google search will show that it has not been cheap) and again fed easy cash to criminal organisations.

Judging by history if they decide to ban guns or even cigarettes it will just lead to people paying more for guns or cigarettes or whatever. I mean they are still waging the war on drugs but if you really wanted something its not that hard to find.

I honestly don't know what they can do about it if they wanted to change things.

[31-EVO]

So I'm channel surfing this morning, and I land on "sunrise' I don't usually watch it as Koshi and that other Mel hoe get up my goat so far you'd think it was a cigar tube. Anyhow, two days after the shooting, an Australian school took their students to a shooting range for either a sport activity or gun safety, I'm not sure which it was, as it was planned prior to the shooting, but I personally believe that it should have gone ahead, who gives a fuck what happened in America, people crying out that it's in poor taste and it should of been cancelled etc.
I understand how other people would view this, but myself view it as just another day, why cancel something just because something happened on the other side of the globe. They don't cancel swimming carnivals after many children drown each year.
Fuck America

[MadDocker]

http://www.news.com.au/world/the-other-school-attack-and-why-you-never-heard-about-it/story-fndir2ev-1226539419806

22 injured in knife attack in China...

[31-EVO]

The fact that the Chinese story was not covered also, sickens me, due tot he fact that the media were more focused on the bigger story. Fucken pathetic to be honest, it's utter bullshit.

[shifted]

Oh oh, gotta ban knives!!!

[31-EVO]

Gotta ban you, everything in moderation, guns, knives, illegal immigrants etc

[Syncope]

On April 28, 1996, a gunman opened fire on tourists in a seaside resort in Port Arthur, Tasmania. By the time he was finished, he had killed 35 people and wounded 23 more. It was the worst mass murder in Australia's history.

Twelve days later, Australia's government did something remarkable. Led by newly elected conservative Prime Minister John Howard, it announced a bipartisan deal with state and local governments to enact sweeping gun-control measures. A decade and a half hence, the results of these policy changes are clear: They worked really, really well.

At the heart of the push was a massive buyback of more than 600,000 semi-automatic shotguns and rifles, or about one-fifth of all firearms in circulation in Australia. The country's new gun laws prohibited private sales, required that all weapons be individually registered to their owners and required that gun buyers present a "genuine reason" for needing each weapon at the time of the purchase. (Self-defense did not count.) In the wake of the tragedy, polls showed public support for these measures at upwards of 90 percent.

What happened next has been the subject of several academic studies. Violent crime and gun-related deaths did not come to an end in Australia, of course. But, as The Washington Post pointed out in August, homicides by firearm plunged 59 percent between 1995 and 2006, with no corresponding increase in non-firearm-related homicides. The drop in suicides by gun was even steeper: 65 percent. Studies found a close correlation between the sharp declines and the gun buybacks.

Robberies involving a firearm also dropped significantly. Meanwhile, home invasions did not increase, contrary to fears that firearm ownership is needed to deter such crimes. But here's the most stunning statistic. In the decade before the Port Arthur massacre, there had been 11 mass shootings in the country. There hasn't been a single one in Australia since.



Source: http://www.star-telegram.com/2012/12/18/4494154/australia-got-tough-reduced-mass.html