The Cool Backyard / Design Thread

[j3rk]

Ok pingpingping's... multiple theory thread:
1) Keen to see really cool / baller backyards / peoples backyards as that shit is always cool to look at and steal ideas from
2) Want to hear about costs/benefits of doing certain things different ways
3) I want to re-do my backyard as I have too much space and want a pool.

There are a lot of Antilag residents having built/planing to build recently so I'm sure you've done your research! Especially Joe, keen for essay response please.
...and this is much more interesting then actually doing work.

This all started after I saw ThirtyTwo's parents place for sale:
http://images.reiwa.com/large/68/3254968-01.jpg
Love the pool/out-door area/dropped bar area. Need theories on everything from concrete vs. fibreglass pools to paving vs. polished concrete.

And as I said in point 3, I want to get something out of this thread as I think it will be a fun project to undertake next year. So here is my house dimensions:
http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee250/j3rk_2007/BackyardDesign2.jpg
As you can see, I have quite a bit of space to work with... anything white behind the garage is fair game. Ideas, K-go!

[TJ]

That backyard is worth more than my entire life.

may as well be dead

[Joe]

My scope of works is actually relatively simple, so no essay required :-P :

-Generously sized Alfresco with washed aggregate
-pizza oven
-grass strip for the kids to play
-7x4 rear access powered shed on its own pad for future 911 acquisition.

We have a separate side courtyard for kids toys, keeping the back yard clean and the laundry area is on the other side of the house too, keeping it out of sight.

We also have elevation changes but have limited it to the shed ie this is above house / yard level and is retained accordingly, as the road and rear right of way are about 40cm different in height.

Polished concrete is obscenely expensive and if you chip it you'll have to fill it in and won't ever match it to the rest.

Washed aggregate is nice, but don't discount tiling for your undercover outdoor areas.. This is a good alternative to decking (which can be a cost effective but fairly played out option.. Although it's a beautiful option around a pool as it's non slip and doesn't get as hot as aggregate) and can look baller if done with the correct materials. Keep in mind that tile choice is critical to safety too, as it can get slippery.

Forget paving, weeds suck.

[V70R]

My scope of works is actually relatively simple, so no essay required :-P :

http://images03.olx.com/ui/1/31/78/5832378_1.jpg

[Joe]

We are talking backyards here, not front yards.

[Turbo2.6L]

What Joe said... aggregate, poured limestone, tiles or anything really > paving.
If you have pets, stay away from the glass pool fencing. Will be forever filthy!
Make sure you have atleast some grass, unless you plan on changing your name to Luigi

[Sebdullah]

No lemon tree Joe??

yeah I need some ideas for my back yard as well, bumper tree on is looking a little lonesome

[matty12]

Cool thread, im trying to do my backyard/could be called a court yard. Ideas would be good but i have a fair idea of what i want to do. Mine sure as fuck wont be baller, its taken me over two months to dig a hole.

[INSINR8R]

There was a Celebrations display home we went to before we started building that had an awesome back yard. Apparently it cost $40k to do and they would do it if you built with them.

I would love to do something like that but I don't have much room at the back of my house.

You could do it and put a pool in between them, would be like a resort kinda thing.

http://www.celebrations2.cdn.dhmedia.com.au/sites/default/files/styles/gallery-image/public/designs/gallery/13395%20-%200262_R_flat_LR.jpg

This is the only pic I could find, there is another of those gazebos to the left behind the house.

[thrtytwo]

my parents backyard as above cost a fair bit. Not sure on exact figure but around $150k+, custom concrete pool, the 2 huts (one of which is a stock size, the other was custom made for the sunken bar), full paving, glass fence, speakers in the alfresco and both huts.

made for some good Australia days and summer sunday sesh's

[Kaido]

Topic is relevant to my interests.

What is the average cost of putting a pool in these days? And what is better fibreglass or concert?

[thrtytwo]

Topic is relevant to my interests.

What is the average cost of putting a pool in these days? And what is better fibreglass or concert?

fibreglass is just easier and quicker/cheaper. Better option unless you want something custom afaik

[[Jacek]]

Holding a concert in your backyard would probably be more expensive than fibreglass

[SSICK]

If you have pets, stay away from the glass pool fencing. Will be forever filthy!


LIES! my mate Adam runs Nanokote WA. They do a once off treatment of all things with a smooth surface. Glass pool fences, windows, stainless appliances, exterior light fittings. HIGHLY recommend them.

0439 952 278
www.nanokotewa.com.au

[SSICK]

Lighting.....go nuts with feature lighting. Garden up lights, deck lights, up down lights, LED strip lights.

[doriae86]

Decking. Lets build a deck!

[Halle Terry]

http://www.homedsgn.com/

http://www.architizer.com/en_us/

http://www.contemporist.com/

[Kaido]

fibreglass is just easier and quicker/cheaper. Better option unless you want something custom afaik

i know nothing about pools, but some people where telling me concert was better, less chance to crack? Looking at a standard design something like 25x20 or something along those lines... maybe add a water feature at one end like a waterfall

[thrtytwo]

i know nothing about pools, but some people where telling me concert was better, less chance to crack? Looking at a standard design something like 25x20 or something along those lines... maybe add a water feature at one end like a waterfall

dunno either tbh. but think about how many mates pools you've been in. chances are 90%+ of them were fibreglass. ever heard of many of them cracking?

[skidkid]

I have a fiberglass pool, is baller and was in the paper.. Bulk cheap too, get that shit.

[ssinister]

i do work for premier one homes and there back yards are always unreal. Should get a few ideas from there photo gallery.
http://premieroneconstruction.com.au/

[huggy_b]

We are talking backyards here, not front yards.

So concrete everything, then paint it green so it's "natural"?

[shifted]

You seem to have a similar orientated backyard...

a.) copy the design to suit your budget
b.) copy it and change the bits you don't want/add grass to suit your budget.

[Tocchi]

Lighting.....go nuts with feature lighting. Garden up lights, deck lights, up down lights, LED strip lights.

makes a huge difference at night with it
https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/310881_1814788348674_471282824_n.jpg

[Kaido]

Matt is that small section like a spa area?

[huggy_b]

Matt is that small section like a spa area?

rich people call them "hot tubs".

Spas are resorts overseas that they holiday at.


easy mistake to make

[Tocchi]

it's actually a turbulence tank, as it is a business tax writeoff

[huggy_b]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_QxlDyn9e4

You could spend a squillion $.

I like a lot the ideas, the island bar etc. But he spent over $100k IIRC.

[Kaido]

it's actually a turbulence tank, as it is a business tax writeoff

Haha... Assuming you can switch it off?

[Tocchi]

yes, need to be able to simulate no bottom current / minimal wind scenarios :P

anyways back on topic.


go for a LOW maintenance setup, go for evergreen plants, not decidious (leaves fall off each autumn), and such like that.
you will end up paying somebody to maintain it every fortnight, or spending a good day each weekend doing it.

[Poktrokt]

What's your budget?
Ripping up your concrete will cost a bit!
Pending budget I'd also knock down your garage an re build that! Needs more space lol
I'd also go for a pool, decked alfresco in the back corner and fence off the whole upper area!
build an out door kitchen too, inc pizza oven etc!!
I also love water walls and other water features with pebbles etc!!
If you don't go a pool, I'd build a lovely decked gazebo area with sun beds etc! I would half sink your spa and build a matching gazebo there too!! Then grass every where and plants along the back fence and inc a river bed from between the gazebos around back and end with large water feature!
You have do many options with your place! I'd send your plans to some Landscapers (I know a good one) give them a budget and see what they propose :)

[Buckets]

Do this and do everything over from the begining !!!

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*Skip to 20 sec's for the good part !

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[Fryman]

where's the outside kitchen? nonna would be disappoint

plus house smell like ding cooking even when the wife or mother or grandmother isnt cooking

[tinto]

Wood Decking is a nightmare around a pool.
Never gain.
Requires way too much maintenance.

[regi]

dont forget aboutdoing something with the house walls and fences, it can really finish off a backyard

[thommo]

And your answer to decking is mod wood. its plastic that looks like decking uv resistant etc etc

http://www.modwood.com.au/

When you do the pool area think of fencing, you want as little as possible! And there is some cheap ($250p/m) stuff you can get from www.balustradingwa.com.au thats semi frameless and looks good for the $$ or better yet get a channel poured into the ground and grout in fully frameless 12mm toughened glass

[Kaido]

And your answer to decking is mod wood. its plastic that looks like decking uv resistant etc etc

http://www.modwood.com.au/

When you do the pool area think of fencing, you want as little as possible! And there is some cheap ($250p/m) stuff you can get from www.balustradingwa.com.au thats semi frameless and looks good for the $$ or better yet get a channel poured into the ground and grout in fully frameless 12mm toughened glass

i like this http://www.balustradingwa.com.au///agpfgal04_image3111.jpg

[thommo]

thats a fairly straight forward deisgn and ive heard they've dropped the prices since i left about 18months ago. Also having a 90degree section makes the fence alot stronger.

Get a fibreglass pool mounted to the flat ground and sitting so its over 1.25m high. Then have it placed about 1200 away from a fence/concrete structure. build a decking around it and steps up into the pool between in that 1200 gap. You then only need a gate there and its pool safe. Ill find pics of a house in cottesloe that has done it, looks fkn amazing. Except it was all polished concrete

This is the example I had in my head. It is all mod wood and pavers that sit on spacers off the ground with drainage underneath

http://www.corporatehousing.net.au/media/property/70/im3.jpg

[Lukey]

Steer well clear of that mod wood shit

I've done 2 houses with it and the amount of shrinkage and expansion is crazy. And its not across the gaps where you wouldnt notice it. Its in the length. Decked the front porch on afternoon and came back the next morning and had 10~15mm gaps in most the joins. Couldnt work out until had another look about lunchtime and they had closed up again.

I'd reccomend getting a hardwood(jarrah marri kapur batu) and let it grey up with the weather. Heaps less maitenence. Wont be as slippery near a pool and its a different look that not many people will have.
Just take the top off with a sander every few years

[Poktrokt]

I actually wouldnt deck around the pool itself! pour limestone concrete or something.

[Rich]

Will be working on my outdoor area over the christmas break. The place I built has a fairly small outdoor area, 6x9m including the alfresco minus a little bit on one of the corners. Im looking at doing putting in a timber deck under the alfresco extending it right out to one of the fences to set up a bbq. The rest will be liquid limestone with the exception of a couple of small gardens. Will have enough room for a spa/hot tub/turbulence tank and a small outdoor setting positioned to view the outdoor cinema.

Im pricing up materials to do the deck at the moment. Steve put me on to this stuff http://www.futurewood.com.au/. Going to look at it this weekend. Its appealing because its low maintenance and I dont expect to be in this place for much more than a year. I cant expect that tenants will be out there oil a timber deck 3-4 times a year.

Definately dont do paving. As soon as it shifts a little bit it looks shit. and weeding is gay as aids! never will I ever use paving unless I put concrete down first.

[j3rk]

Keep the comments coming guys.

Budget: Sub 50k would be nice.
Definite Requirements: Pool, out-door kitchen (BBQ+Fridge+Pizza oven)

More ideas around: Fake Grass?
Infinite style pool walls (elevated pool with exposed wall I guess?)?
Integration of a spa into a pool (i have a rather large spa already)?
Pool heating?
Fencing? Definitely something I have to look into, especially boundary fencing to replace the old asbestos 'super-6' fence is a must! Not keen for huge costs though!
Outdoor showers? (washing off after pool/spa?)

Jess, check the first page drawing... where the garage is currently will be moved to the front of the house to make more room
Demolition the easy part, garage/concrete will be removed by drunken workers over a few weekends.
Tocchi, agree'd everything WILL need to be low maintenance. No real grass/plants. I'm still a lazy bloke after all, I also live opposite a park... enough grass there.

Now for some cool backyards, love how this pool looks flush with the ground:
http://www.homedsgn.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Jewel-of-Maui-00-0-750x499.jpg
http://www.homedsgn.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Jewel-of-Maui-00-3-750x499.jpg

Lighting and seating in the pool is a must:
http://southlake.ourgreatcity.com/files/u2/stone_crest_pools5.jpg
http://homedecorhousedesign.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Romantic-Luxury-and-Cozy-Poolside-Area-Design-Inspiration-View.jpg

Whats the deal with pool covers?
http://blog.savewater.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Vinyl-Safety-Cover-1_600.png

And buckets, the house may not be flash but it's fine for my needs at the moment... spend most of my time outside as it is!
The way the backyard is setup I can demolish the house and build a new one later, without effecting the backyard anyway.

NEED MORE OUT OF THE BOX IDEAS! Cool things that aren't the standard!

[XT43]

50k won't get you much. I did a 6x4 concrete pool in my front yard before last summer ( shell starts ~30k then start adding for colours in the plaster, water feature, lighting etc ), then you've got the fencing, flooring..

http://i389.photobucket.com/albums/oo331/XT43/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_0283.jpg

Day of handover
http://i389.photobucket.com/albums/oo331/XT43/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_0335.jpg

Personally concrete > fiberglass, you'll spend good money trying to get a fiberglass pool to sit in nicely but its never 100%

[Sebdullah]

NEED MORE OUT OF THE BOX IDEAS! Cool things that aren't the standard!

skatepark

[Kaido]

http://i389.photobucket.com/albums/oo331/XT43/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_0335.jpg

Personally concrete > fiberglass, you'll spend good money trying to get a fiberglass pool to sit in nicely but its never 100%

what did the water feature cost you? looks fuckign awesome!

[yeahlow34]

50k won't get you much. I did a 6x4 concrete pool in my front yard before last summer ( shell starts ~30k then start adding for colours in the plaster, water feature, lighting etc ), then you've got the fencing, flooring..

Agreed $50k won't get you much at all in a backyard.
But $30k for a 6x4 concrete pool shell sounds rediculous!
Granted I know people in the industry, but could get that for well under a third of that price.

[R31 POWER]

Three sections:
1.
Infinity pool with limestone paving, swim up/floating bar with cabana over top. Also something that you can jump off into the pool.
Tropical grass plants along the fence line, pebbles too. Lots of pebbles.
2.
Patch of fake lawn to look pretty. Sunken conversation pit with fireplace in the middle.
3.
Outdoor kitchen. Raised wooden decking, BBQ/spit/pizza oven, glass front drinks fridge, lots of stainless steel for wank factor.
Big ass Balinese style ceiling fan to keep you cool. Table & chairs, outdoor lounge.

Add a bunch of funky lights and invite all the girls around.
Profit.

-Grace

[j3rk]

What do you mean by fiberglass won't sit properly? Many people have said concrete, many other said fiberglass... none pointing out many real reasons beyond personal preference!

As this progresses I can re-assess budget, as you note yeahlow34 several people have given HUGE differences in prices for pools/everything.
Keen to hear what various installs of people cost however, for now more interested in awesome design ideas!

[Turbo2.6L]

208sqm airconditioned workshop with hoists, tools & dyno. Will blow budget, but will gain you lots of 'friends'

[XT43]

Agreed $50k won't get you much at all in a backyard.
But $30k for a 6x4 concrete pool shell sounds rediculous!
Granted I know people in the industry, but could get that for well under a third of that price.

By shell I meant basic 6x4 pool with basic filter system, plaster, shit pavers for trim around pool, etc. Start ticking the option boxes for coloured crystal stuff in plaster, self chlorinating system, pick the best pavers, LED lighting yada yada yada and it adds up quickly.
Great if you know people in the idustry, I don't, but got the quote off a referred pool builder and then got another 2 and they all come back with the same sort of figures.
My guy did the lot though, pool, paving and the big limestone boundary wall. Others would only do the pool etc so it was a no brainer.
Kaido, the water feature was another 2-3k, I cant remember if that included the lit water blade. Its cool though, can be adjusted to pour out or trickle over the cladded stone. it looks a bit shit there in my opinion but I have now added a few big pots and plants around it so it doesnt sit there like a set of dogs balls.
j3rk, what I mean is go and have a look at all the displays. All the pictures you have posted are of pools with the sharp edging, which is the look I love ( great for when the kids crack their skulls ), which can only really be achieved with the concrete pools. Sure, you can lay the pavers over the edge of a fiberglass pool or have a raised one an build up around it but its not as good which would end up shitting me to tears, hence why I went concrete.

[yeahlow34]

I recommend speaking to a landscape architect.
For the relatively small $$$ commission, they can give you far more accurate costs, and some very cool ideas.
In particular, they can point you to some of the latest lighting products.

[Poktrokt]

As mentioned above, fencing will cost a fortune and the neighbours may not wish to help with costs, pool will also set you back a good wad, pebbles are fantastic looking but will cost you the earth, fake grass will sting you like no tomorrow (we just had that done).
As for things like decking you can do this yourself (although a head ache) and save a fair amount, same goes for water features, you can find many build threads online for water walls like that one above and river beds (I already looked into this), you can also save a lot of money with the above things by either doing it yourself, coughing up a few cartons of beer or cash jobs etc
your plans (the above pretty pictures which will cost a fuck load more than your budget) will immidiately over capitalise your property but thats a call only you can make! :)

I cannot wait to see your finished product! :) :) will be fantastic either way!

[huggy_b]

We? What's this we business? Should I bill you for half shall I? :D

But yeah Paul, think $100/m2 for fake grass. The piddly little bit down the side of my house was in excess of $2k.

[j3rk]

Ok, following the trend... anyone have landscape architects to recommend?

[Sebdullah]

fuck that, will take real grass, prefer the feel of it it anyway

but all this talk has me thinking of putting an above ground spa in

[cactus]

Where are you guys getting quotes for fake grass lol?

You can pick up high quality shit for $40 sq/m laid ...

I had my front yard done (best decision ever) 55 sqm was $2,700 - it looks amazing and you never have to touch the shit. The stuff I have is relatively soft, 25mm high and has that under-thatching stuff so it looks thick and super green. At my next place, I will definitely be laying it myself as it looks quite easy (and consider myself pretty handy around the house).

Some of the pics in this thread are make me emo - I would love to have the cash to go nuts on back yard. I guess with my second house I'll go crazy.

Awesome thread.

[Alt_F4]

skatepark
The dream:
http://sitedesigngroup.com/img/uploaded/374_orig.jpg

The reality:
http://media.skateboard.com.au/forum/images/20070814_205409.jpg

[Kickit]

don't forget the burnout pad!

[Jazza]

I haven't read the thread just skimmed it but a few things that might help.
1 - Don't have large amounts of fake grass if you want to use the area, I've seen heaps of it and even the expensive stuff seems to get very hot in summer! If it's just for aesthetics in an area then no big deal (also note dogs/cats will ruin it eventually).
2 - Look at the Northern part of your roof space for pool heating, bare in mind you will lose the ability to have solar power or domestic solar hot water if you do this unless you use a Western roof and lose efficiency. It takes up A LOT of space on your roof (obviously its in direct relation to your pool size) and can leave rubber sh*t all over your roof as it slowly breaks down over years. Make sure you research it properly and buy from the higher end of the market.
3 - There are diff types of pool covers, some intended to heat the pool others intended to simply cover it. I would look towards the later as the Daisy/Elite pool covers that sit on top of your pool warm it well but break down after years and leave more sh*t everywhere as well as looking like rubbish if you leave them in place for awhile. Lastly if you have any pool that isn't a square/rectangle they can be a pain in the arse to get off the pool and you can't really use a roller.
4 - Don't buy cheaper pool lights anything manufactured from China. Their stainless steel (ie 316 grade etc) is different and will break down in your pool after a few years causing damage to the pool as well. The slightly higher price for better quality is worth it here too.

[urabus]

Ok, following the trend... anyone have landscape architects to recommend?

I can tell you all of the commercial guys we deal with but one we deal with that does some high end domestic stuff is Linda at Hidcote Landscapes. She has done some small commercial stuff for us.

linda@hidcote.com.au

Brendon

[Rich]

just received a quote from Collie hardware today for all the materials for my timber deck and it works out to about $90 sq/m just to supply. DIY install ;)

[Halle Terry]

Seriously Paul, I'd talk to some uni students at Curtin/UWA.

Approach the lecturer of the department and see if they're interested, it gives the students real world experience and you'll probably pay them fuck all for it.

[Azrian]

I paid around the $3.3k mark for a concept design and planting plan from an award winning landscape designer with many magazine features. Unfortunately they are not in business any more due to starting a family.

[jedi_luke]

this is a pic of my DIY backyard, spent around 10k on everything you see as well as the pond/water feature that has a bio filtration system for the coi in it, never done anything like it before, no experience on the tools, just thought id give it a go, hammer, nails, bit of wood, nek minute =

http://sphotos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/464649_10151252070548559_1263083668_o.jpg

[YOUR MATE]

I'm in the same boat at the moment. Building a house and looking for ideas for the back yard, but don't have stacks of room to work with. The idea I had was having a deck extend out from the alfresco to the fence on the side, then maybe some grass behind the house and a pool on the side. Between the garage and the fence will be something to park cars on behind the front fence. Or at least that was the only real ideas I had. After looking into pools I was more into concrete ones, much prefer the look. But the cost seems to be huge, around $25k up.

Here's a pic of my block plan. Open to ideas on what to do with it. After seeing some pics I do like the idea of a sunken area with seating. Also my brother being a chef is keen for a big flashy outdoor kitchen. BBQ/pizza oven/sinks/fridges, the works. We have gas/water/power points on the side of the house in preparation for this.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d28/Nthn_suss/SitePlan.jpg

[VRX]

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii314/antilagGTR/outdoor-home-theater-4.jpg

[millzy_88]

Fuck, thrtytwo's parents place is baller! My favourite one in the thread.

[mxracer]

i have a dog so sadly my tiny backyard is always going to look like dog shit

[findingnewo]

Looked better with skimpys


this is a pic of my DIY backyard, spent around 10k on everything you see as well as the pond/water feature that has a bio filtration system for the coi in it, never done anything like it before, no experience on the tools, just thought id give it a go, hammer, nails, bit of wood, nek minute =

http://sphotos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/464649_10151252070548559_1263083668_o.jpg

[j3rk]

Thread bump, rather than create another thread.
Those who were building last year will probably have better ideas now!

Long story short, the above got too hard... and I bought a different house that has a much better starting point:
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/t31/1602074_10151859956921621_26210671_o.jpg

So I'm now mainly interested in hearing peoples thoughts on:
1) Outdoor BBQs - What to have what not to have?
- I don't think I'd need a sink, What's the use of a sink outside?
- Definitely want BBQ/Fridges/Pizza Oven... anything else?
2) Outdoor Lighting/pool lighting - This place has none... who has hookups? Shops to go see etc?
3) Polished concrete - Who has a good hookup? What's it worth?
4) Plastic roll-down wind protection?! Or alternatives?
5) Random other ideas!

Back right corner of the above photo is a ~8m x 4m area with sheds currently to be replaced with the an alfresco + outdoor kitchen.
I have discussed with a designer but always keen for other opinions/ideas.

Style/aim currently is to be similar to the ones show below, as they look good to me...
http://australianoutdoorkitchens.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/1-865x382.jpg
http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/dc/24/b9/dc24b98a644f03215bc629071f166b61.jpg

[magic1]

you will need an engineer.

[j3rk]

To help me test drinking in the backyard? Agreed!

[DRKWRX]

interested to hear about polished concrete hook ups/price, want the same in my alfresco and honed for my driveway!

[Wrexter]

This thread is also relevant to my interest

Did my front landscaping DIY last year and cost me $6.5k, did everything except paving and rendering planter boxes.

Currently designing backyard, gonna have:

- Timber deck alfresco (DIY)
- washed aggregate alfresco extension (by others)
- brick rendered planters (DIY - render by others)
- pizza oven and bench (DIY) - Pomei pizza oven
- lighting and sub surface irrigation for gardens, sprinklers for grass (sir Walter or EZ)
- keen for a herb garden, line tree, couple of frangipanis.

I'm comfortable giving most things a go but the only thing I just can't be bothered trying due to skill required and effect of good finish is rendering.

Budgeting ~$10k to $15k

Want to finish it by Christmas

[S13]

Thread bump

So.... who is the resident landscaper here ? Anyone ... or any legit suggestions ?

Decent budget but have to have a talk to people to see if my version of 'decent'..... Is well in fact .. 'decent'

Very basic design - some earth moving, limestone walls, fences, shade sail, retic, plants, fake grass

or just part of it to be honest Id even be happy with the earth moving / limestone walls done - the rest I can organize separately if needed

[Fozzy]

I highly recommend Garth at Multiwest Paving 0414792864 he does all facets of landscaping. Tell him Scottie M recommended him and im sure he will look after you