Mercedes to enter v8 supercars

[Floyd]

sorry if reposted also wasn't sure whether to place this into Nissan thread
taken from here
http://www.caradvice.com.au/191998/mercedes-benz-amg-racers-enter-v8-supercars/


A trio of Mercedes-Benz E63 AMG race cars will compete against Holden Commodores, Ford Falcons and Nissan Altimas in the 2013 V8 Supercars series.

Mercedes GT racing team Erebus Motorsport has announced today that it has formed an alliance with the Stone Brothers Racing outfit to take the three-pointed-star into the local touring car championship.

Erebus, which races the Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG GT3 in Australian GT racing, has taken advantage of V8 Supercars’ new Car of the Future rules, which have been specifically created to broaden the number of participating brands beyond the long-established Ford and Holden.

Mercedes-Benz Australia, however, is stressing it hasn’t joined Nissan as the latest manufacturer to enter the series from 2013.

“This is purely and totally a privately funded effort,” said Mercedes-Benz spokesman David McCarthy. “There is no official backing from AMG or Mercedes-Benz Australia.

“There will be no Mercedes-Benz sales or marketing activities based around [the V8 Supercar entry].”



There have been long-standing rumours that Mercedes-Benz would become one of the new brands to expand the V8 Supercar series but the company has continually denied any intention to become involved.

Mercedes maintains the series is not yet right for the brand, though says it has given Erebus its blessing to enter with its cars owing to a long-standing relationship.

“Erebus is a good and loyal customer. That relationship is important to us and that’s why AMG and Mercedes-Benz Australia has agreed to what they are doing and giving them our blessing.”

The Erebus entrants will be Mercedes-Benz E-Class shells based over the Car of the Future platform that will also underpin the Commodore, Falcon and Altima racers.

The Mercedes touring cars will be powered by a modified version of the 5.0-litre V8 currently used in the SLS AMG GT3 race cars. Erebus is paying AMG to develop the engine and other parts of the car.

Insiders familiar with the Mercedes project claim the E-Class V8 Supercars contender will set a new benchmark in terms of engineering and safety, and be highly competitive.

“This will probably be the best-funded team [on the grid],” a source told CarAdvice. “Erebus is investing significant amounts of money [into the V8 Supercars project].

“Erebus, SBR [Stone Brothers Racing] and AMG have lots of [motor racing] experience and knowledge, and that’s all going to be brought to bear [in 2013] to be competitive within the rules.

Stone Brothers Racing is currently running Ford Falcons in the 2012 V8 Supercars championship, with drivers Lee Holdsworth, Shane Van Gisbergen and Tim Slade.

Nissan announced earlier this year that it would return to V8 Supercars in 2013, teaming up with Kelly Racing. Its contender will be based on the new mid-sized Nissan Altima due to be released into showrooms in the second half of 2013.

Nissan recently unveiled its V8 race engine for the 2013 championship.

The Japanese brand famously dominated the championship in the early 1990s with the GT-R before it was banned from the sport, effectively making way for the long-running Ford and Holden duopoly.

discuss

[mehow2g]

Fantastic v8 super cars going to be a lot bigger.

[Damo 69]

this is awesome news for the sport, looking forward to it.

[Stef]

definitely good news... will be interesting to see how that goes!

[ben351]

were originally meant to be behind DJR but it fell through and SBR snapped it up.

[adrenalin]

Thank fuck !!!

Might be worth watching now.

Hopefully few other makes join in. Needs BMW , Toyo , Audi etc to all join in.

[Madhav]

Yes I think with these two new contenders two things will likely happen:

1: Ford and Holden will get an absolute ass whipping

2: Ford and Holden will change the rules somehow so they don't become humiliated over and over again

[cactus]

I think everyone is under-estimating what Holden and Ford are capable of.

[Damo 69]

maybe V8 supercars is locking in new marques to ensure the longitivity of the cash cow long after the falcon and commodore are no longer produced.

just saying

[sdwz180]

Nice! Has anyone seen the v8 Superstars series in Europe? It would be good to get a mix of cars like that in the Australian form of the sport.

Heres a C63 from the superstars series.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Fnn3-IKmgI4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[TJ]

were originally meant to be behind DJR but it fell through and SBR snapped it up.

Yup. 2 things swung it though

a) DJR still get some Ford dollars.
b) Jim Beam were going to pull their funding if DJR went Merc. Ford and Jim Beam dollars > This deal


Yes I think with these two new contenders two things will likely happen:

1: Ford and Holden will get an absolute ass whipping

2: Ford and Holden will change the rules somehow so they don't become humiliated over and over again

Haha you dont know much about the sport do you?


maybe V8 supercars is locking in new marques to ensure the longitivity of the cash cow long after the falcon and commodore are no longer produced.

just saying

Mercedes is not involved in this deal in any way shape or form


Private entry

"Mrs Klimenko is the property developer daughter of Hungarian immigrant John Saunders who co-founded Westfield with Frank Lowy.

With her eye-catching blast of blonde hair with pink highlights (this week), bold and obvious body art and a preference for making an all-black fashion statement, Mrs Klimenko doesn’t fit the usual stereotype of a race team principal or perhaps even a Mercedes-Benz owner. But she’ll match or better bank accounts with most along pit lane and is reportedly ready and able to throw money at achieving her goals in Australia’s most popular motor sport category."

This is effectively Erebus racing buying out SBR because they are already running a CLK GT car at huge cost in a series that gives them no exposure, so why not buy into the most popular motorsport series.

[Madhav]

Haha you dont know much about the sport do you?

Ummm... No. Pretty much stuff all about the rules either.

My opinion was primarily based on the idea that Aussie standards of engineering and technology are a little behind compared to the Japanese and German. Whether this counts on the track, or can be applied in this sport, I don't know...

[ClevoCapri]

My opinion would be that Australian race teams have beeen out engineering Japanese and German teams for along time.
Two examples from grpA days. DJR's Sierra's and Gibsons GTR's. Both world class.
The same development has gone into the V8's for alot longer. And the engines used by ford and holden are by no means lo tech, even though they have pushrods.....

[TJ]

Ummm... No. Pretty much stuff all about the rules either.

My opinion was primarily based on the idea that Aussie standards of engineering and technology are a little behind compared to the Japanese and German. Whether this counts on the track, or can be applied in this sport, I don't know...

Not in any way shape or form really.

DJR Sierra and Gibson GTR are 20 year relic's where loose rules allow big budgets to dominate.

Not to talk down two of my favourite racing cars of all time.

[ClevoCapri]

If that was at my reply.
My point was more of the teams ability to make the cars competitive on the world stage. Atleast that style of racing you could compare teams internationaly, as they had the same rules. And the aussie teams did well.

[TJ]

DJR made the best Sierras in the world

Gibson had no competition at all.

But the rules wernt quite as tight as they are these days.... there is plenty of stories about interesting mods to Gibson cars.

[RRob]

What is stopping Holden and Ford de-stroking the latest release engines available?

[DISTRBD]

What is stopping Holden and Ford de-stroking the latest release engines available?

Easier to stroke the 253 block

[TJ]

What is stopping Holden and Ford de-stroking the latest release engines available?

Nothing - but why would they when they had off the shelf nascar stuff virtually ready to go.

[DISTRBD]

Nothing - but why would they when they had off the shelf nascar stuff virtually ready to go.

What size block Nascar use ?

[Tocchi]

5.87L

[TJ]

Ford blocks are a Motorsport item you can buy
Heads are 'D3' and supplied by Ford Motorsport as a semi finished casting that is also used in Nascar and Comp Eliminator drag racing. They are machined and expertly finished to a maximum port height and relatively small inlet valve size (2.125") for Aussie V8's
Rods are minimum weight transparency items from various vendors and pistons are the same. Cranks come from Bryant and others and are also regulated for weight and journal minimum diameter. The rest of the gear is pretty straightforward. You could go out and order everything you need, probably off the shelf for a Windsor. The HMS/GM engine is a direct Windsor copy but not an interchange and not quite so easy to get stuff for.

With a few more freedoms to reduce friction- 'our' 7 mm valve stems and 2.25" crank journals are big (6 litre Nascars use 2" mains, 6 mm stems) and the reciprocating parts are quite heavy- I have a souvenir Ford Carrillo rod that is no longer legal, that weighs a bit over 400 grams- and porting/valves/cams, but not an increase in RPM, they would probably be up around 680 hp.

From the Book:

7.3.10 The minimum deck height of all Ford and Holden Motorsport Cylinder blocks is
207.0mm. It is permitted to use components that do not comply with this dimension
during Rides and Testing only.
7.3.11 The camshaft lifter bores must remain in the same location as specified by the
manufacturer and the samples held by V8 Supercars on the Ford M 6010 Boss 302
and the Holden Motor Sport 22534350 cylinder blocks.
7.3.12 Cylinder Block Weight
7.3.12.1 The Minimum weight of any cylinder block used in the VCS will be 70 kg.
The weight of the block will include any Core/oil gallery and Rear Cam
tunnel plugs Cam Bearings and any internal oil feed or scavenge lines
and removable rear main seal carrier.
© V8 Supercars – 2012 Division “C” 1st UPDATE Page C25
7.3.12.2 A block that is less than 70kg is permitted to have ballast weight to bring it
up to 70kg placed on either:
(a) on the Chassis rail no further rearward than X+ 1855, no lower than
the underside of the front Chassis rail and must not protrude more than
25mm from the inner face of the Front Chassis rail and be equally
distributed side to side of the vehicle; or
(b) on the block itself in a position approved by the CTM that does not
lower the centre of gravity of the block.
7.3.12.3 The maximum relative density of any material used as ballast is twelve
(12).
C7.4 Cylinder Head
Subject to the Rules contained in Division C and the dimensions contained in the relevant
VSD.
7.4.1 Modifications to the cylinder head are free, save for the following:
7.4.2 It is permitted to add material to the cylinder head provided that the integrity of the
original casting is respected and that no attempt is made to vary the basic design of
the approved component beyond the permitted modifications and that it must
always be possible for the cylinder head to be identified as the approved part.
7.4.3 The original spark plug location must be retained in all respects.
7.4.4 It is permitted to use valves, valve spring retainers and collets manufactured from
Titanium alloy.
7.4.5 Valves must only be opened by mechanical action and closed by means of coil
springs.
7.4.6 For all Ford, and Holden Motor Sport engines, the maximum inlet valve diameter is
53.97mm (2.125 inches).
7.4.7 The minimum inlet and exhaust valve stem diameter is 7.0mm
7.4.8 The inlet and exhaust valve heads and stems must be solid.
7.4.9 Cylinder Head Weight
7.4.9.1 The Minimum weight of any plain bare Cylinder Head used in the VCS
will be 13.5 kg. The weight of the head will include valve seats, valve
guides and rocker cover studs.
7.4.9.2 A head that is less than 13.5kg is permitted to have ballast weight to bring
it up to 13.5kg placed at the rear of that head attached by bolts or studs.
7.4.9.3 The maximum relative density of any material used as ballast is twelve
(12).
C7.5 Pistons
7.5.1 No part of the piston may protrude beyond the cylinder head face of the cylinder
block when the piston is at TDC.
7.5.2 The minimum weight of each piston including the piston pin, but not including the
piston rings or retainers is 500 grams.
C7.6 Connecting Rods
7.6.1 Connecting rods must only be made of Ferrous Material.
7.6.2 The minimum weight of each connecting rod including the connecting rod bolts, nuts
and washers but not including the ‘big end’ bearings is 500 grams.
C7.7 Crankshaft
7.7.1 The crankshaft must respect the approved crankpin phasing and throw angles as
detailed in the relevant VSD.
7.7.2 The stroke of the crankshaft must be a maximum of 77.22 mm and a minimum of
75.18mm.
7.7.3 The minimum crankshaft ‘big end’ journal diameter is 47.45 mm.

[MrSparkle]

Keen for variety on the track !

[shane]

The holdens use a Chevrolet Aurora block, basically a short deck SBC from Chevs IRL engine program. It was originally an Oldsmobile Aurora 4.0L but later re-badged Chevrolet Aurora after GM dropped Oldsmobile from its line up. V8 supercars is the only reason they still make the block as Chevrolet dumped the IRL engine program in early 90's.

[adrenalin]

Lol at ford and holden being up there with other manufacturers in terms of racing technology.....

Has any v8 Supercar ever done a lap at Nurburgring ? would be keen to see how it goes.

[Lmx]

Lol at ford and holden being up there with other manufacturers in terms of racing technology.....

Has any v8 Supercar ever done a lap at Nurburgring ? would be keen to see how it goes.
http://www.thesupercarexperience.com.au/press8.html
Finishing order of SP (Class) 8

1. 3 Dodge Viper GTS-R Huisman Duncan , Coronel Tom , Simon Patrick , Bouchout Christophe

2. 16 Lamborghini Gallardo GTR Rösler Stephan , Kitzerow Andreas , Scholze Florian , Silbermayr Georg

3. 23 VW Golf 5 R32 HGP Schlee Bernd , Christoffel Marc , Keltsch Peter , Tenchini Giampaolo

4. 6 Aston Martin V8 Vantage N24 Herreman Arnold , Dujaroyn Kurt , Gonnissen Anton , Herreman Jean-Paul

5. 44 Holden Commodore Rose Mal , Wallis Adam , Robson Anthony , Burton Kevin

6. 21 Audi V8 D11 Ahlers Keith , Kubik Manfred , Sedlmaier Markus , Undorf Helmut

7. 9 Aston Martin V8 Vantage N24 Mathai Oliver , Meaden Richard , Lemeret Stephane

8. 20 Mercedes Benz 126 C Dr. Schenzle Matthias , Kammerl Andrea , Derichs Erwin , Turebrand Gunnar

9. 8 Aston Martin V8 Vantage N24 Bez Ulrich , Porritt Christopher , Schuhbauer Wolfgang , von Saurma Jeltz Horst

Aston Martin DBRS 9/8 Ludwig Klaus , Fässler Marcel , Bert Sascha , Lechner Robert DNF

Lamborghini Gallardo Tilke Hermann , Adorf Dirk , Oberndorfer Peter , Großmann Markus DNF

Audi RS4 Kohlhaas Christian , Fisch Sven , Riebensahm Dirk , Tenchini Gianpalo DNF

Dodge Viper GTS-R Dr. Huppert-Nieder Hans-Peter , Feidt Toni , Mohr Werner , Klein Michael DNF



Here is a link for the entire field (it is in German);
http://adac.24h-rennen.de/en/databas...-database.html

[Buckets]

Mal Rose has raced an old GRM VY in the Nurburgring 24hr.

http://www.ausringers.com/2011/06/08/mal-rose-is-bringing-v8-thunder-back-to-the-ring.html

Not sure on the lap times though.

EDIT: Beaten

[YOUR MATE]

People need to stop thinking they are racing VN Commodores around. The new boys will get schooled hard the first season I think, which will only drive things further. I cannot wait for next season.

[anton]

the amount of work that went into those VN's to get them to drive the way they did is just awesome, what i wouldn't give to get some seat time in one

[DISTRBD]

This should be next :P

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/CXSHb-7BPMA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[BOSS 290]

I think everyone is under-estimating what Holden and Ford are capable of.

Ford are capable of pulling out. Let's see if they demonstrate this capacity next year.

[Lmx]

Rather than start a new thread,
inc volvo
http://www.carsales.com.au/news/2013/v8sc-volvo-commits-6-million-37126

[TJ]

Good news - one less Holden team and more investment in the series with the looming reduction of Ford involvement

[anton]

who knows what the current ford teams will be doing. i mean they may abandon ship early get their development over while everyones still adjusting

[TJ]

who knows what the current ford teams will be doing. i mean they may abandon ship early get their development over while everyones still adjusting

What development? All the chassis and bits are virtually identical - changing some body panels wont change that.

It is likely most of them will run the falcon beyond 2015 anyhow

[anton]

its more about the engine TBH and getting one developed that is on par with the established teams

[ED40]

Ford will probably run the Taurus.

I hope Volvo use there own motor not another fukin LSx.

[TJ]

Ford will probably run the Taurus.

I hope Volvo use there own motor not another fukin LSx.

No cars in V8's run a LS?

[ED40]

I have heard rumours from a few websites that they will most likely use an LS based engine de-stroked to 5L.

[anton]

the link said volvo plant to stroke one of their v8's as opposed to those rumors

[duste]

Hopefully won't be long before Toyota jumps on the bandwagon, would also be good to see Mazda throw a 6 in to the mix.

[Lonewolf]

would make sense, but not sure if volvo have a performance based V8 (used in motorsport currently) that they can slot in?
Merc's v8 already had runs on the board in SLS cup cars and stuff, be a big ask to start from scratch on a road-going engine

[DISTRBD]

Ford will probably run the Taurus.

I hope Volvo use there own motor not another fukin LSx.

Didn't think any one was using the LS in V8SC , always thought the blocks were made just for the teams only ..

[ED40]

I didn't say anyone in V8sc was using Lsx motors, I was just speaking in general with everyone putting lsx motors into everything.

[Master D]

would make sense, but not sure if volvo have a performance based V8 (used in motorsport currently) that they can slot in?
Merc's v8 already had runs on the board in SLS cup cars and stuff, be a big ask to start from scratch on a road-going engine

Apparently development of their own 5L is in the works.
They are throwing 6mil at their campaign, one can only imagine with that investment that the cars are going to be filled with alot of their own development parts ( from what they can change/add)

[YOUR MATE]

Merge this thread with the Super Taxi one? I was just about to post this up having seen it on facebook. Fucking stoked at where this series is going.