F1 2012 chat thread

[Jazza]

Going to be a pretty shitty 2013 for me :(
Fingers crossed 2014 works out and they have a strong car! Will be good to see Rosberg go up against Lewis, I haven't rated him that highly for awhile now but this will show how good he is!

[TJ]

To be honest, not all is lost in 2013.

The rules stay the same (minus no double drs bs)

So Merc have the entire winter to improve this car.

McLaren Ferrari and RBR Lotus can only find so much from their current package.

[fourseven]

We don't know the rules will stay the same though do we? The FIA are due to release the calendar later today, but still no rules release other than flaps to cover stepped noses.

McLaren will continue to run 2nd or 3rd place, Ferrari will swap their development schedule again (shit first half of the year, great second half), Lotus will design something over the winter that would see them walk the field only to be banned before the first race, RBR will cheat, lie and steal.

Ahh me F1. She's a beauty.

[TJ]

Also, Nico turned down McLaren in 2010 because he wanted to avoid Lewis... oh dear.

[TJ]

From MSC

I have had three nice years with the team which unfortunately did not go as well as we all would have wanted on the sporting side," Schumacher said.

"I wish Lewis well and for the team to achieve the success we worked so hard for in the build-up. I would like to thank the team for their trust and all the guys for their unconditional commitment. I will now concentrate on the next races."

[fourseven]

LOL Lewis has unequivocal number 1 status in the team too.

Schumacher back to Mercedes 2013 or 2014? Kek.

[TJ]

Rhett - not a chance their will be major changes for 2013 - teams are already looping at 2014 coming. They will keep it 99.999999999% same.

[TJ]

http://www.mercedes-amg-f1.com/en/#/s/news/1802/lewis-hamilton-to-race-for-mercedes-amg-petronas-from-2013

Official statement.

[Buckets]

Come on Suzuka ! It will be interesting to see how the rest of the season plays out now the silly season is well and truly underway.

It sounds like Schumi is 100% out of the team and doesn't have any mentoring ect, ect role. Is this the end for him or where or what will he go to from here.
If Massa is booted from Ferrari who fills that seat now ? Di Resta ?

[fourseven]

Massa will get another year, because Ferrari are fucking idiots.

[Autopilot]

I found wally.


http://i46.tinypic.com/15qozo2.jpg

[Adr3naL1N]

Massa will get another year, because Ferrari are fucking idiots.

Masa is the fucking reason why ferrari wont win the wcc this year. Alonso is carrying them. If they had a decent number two they would of had it in the bag this year. Its a pity he cant do what webber/button has done for rbr/mclaren the last two years...and just simply scored consistent points.

I cant understand how they CAN give him another year.

[TJ]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s480x480/185290_422134224514181_2096264791_n.jpg

[satch]

Thought the writing was on the wall given his recent celebrations. Will be interesting to see.

Sad to see Schumi pushed out again, another win would have been nice.

[TJ]

It is well documented by now that his sadness at Monza was related to his Aunty dying of cancer during that week.

[Brockas]

Good call by Brockas on Alguersuari too.
;)


McLaren will continue to run 2nd or 3rd place, Ferrari will swap their development schedule again (shit first half of the year, great second half), Lotus will design something over the winter that would see them walk the field only to be banned before the first race, RBR will cheat, lie and steal.
And you'll no doubt be supporting somoene new :p

[Kaido]

Masa is the fucking reason why ferrari wont win the wcc this year. Alonso is carrying them. If they had a decent number two they would of had it in the bag this year. Its a pity he cant do what webber/button has done for rbr/mclaren the last two years...and just simply scored consistent points.

I cant understand how they CAN give him another year.

Yes because the Ferrari has been so easy to drive this year, When Ferrari have brought an update or got the setup right and the car is good Massa has got good results, look at Monza for example. I love how quickly people write off Massa but the sad truth is that Alonso is out performing the car and there are maybe only a handful of drivers on the grid at the moment that could do similar.

Its very easy to say Massa has done badly when you look at his team-mate but the fact is Ferrari have fail both drivers but not producing a race winning car... and in the last few races they have fail on improving the car, they have tested 3 front wings all which never made it onto the car beacuse they didn't work, in Singapore they had a new rear wing again which didn't see the race because it did not work

[esky]

Schumacher to Ferrari for a year then Vettel to Ferrari for the rumored 2014 already signed contract?

[fourseven]

I pay that!

[mjp]

I guess Lewis forgot that he wont get that McLaren F1 now that he was promised by Ron Dennis if he wins 3 championships with them.
End of an era i guess :(

edit: http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2008/03/f1-lm-front_opt.jpg
the car in question *drool*

[Sully]

Lewis just bought himself a zonda rs760 anyway didn't he? Don't think he'll be that upset about a mclaren f1.

Would be awesome to see Schumi at Ferrari for a year. Massa to Sauber :eek:

[Buckets]

Lewis just bought himself a zonda rs760 anyway didn't he? Don't think he'll be that upset about a mclaren f1.

The F1 Lewis was going to get I believe is the LM proto type... Whatever the Zonda's worth double it and then some, "normal" F1's are worth millions now the rarest "road legal" F1 would be worth mega bucks.

[beatle]

Would like to see Heiki at Sauber, or even Ferrari, even if just for a year. Would make a great second driver for Alonso.

[Brockas]

He had his chance in a top flight team and blew it.

[TheChad]

1 of 5 special F1s wasn't it? Each slightly different.
I'm sure merc will come out swinging in 2014, but I'll admit I am keen to see how Hamilton does if they don't perform next year. Will be interesting to see if he is like alonso and drag them up, or if he flounders. I'm almost hoping the car is shit so we can see how good of a driver he really is.

[TJ]

I hope its good so we can see how good he is vs vettel alonso and... but.. oh wait

[Kaido]

LOL Lewis has unequivocal number 1 status in the team too.

Schumacher back to Mercedes 2013 or 2014? Kek.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/102913

"Nico Rosberg has been assured of equal status alongside Lewis Hamilton at Mercedes next year, AUTOSPORT has learned."

[fourseven]

Interesting. That's not what the UK news is reporting.

[TJ]

Honestly - a team with the dollars and skillset should be able to give them both equal treatment in terms of equipment.

History shows Lewis can deal with Rosberg anyhow, so I dont think there will need to be much pandering.

[TJ]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/yTYqkVDaBiE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Good view of it

[SimonR32]

Interesting. That's not what the UK news is reporting.

UK news biasing a UK driver.... Never :P

[TJ]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Wj5LVav9wU0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Awesome.

[fourseven]

Rumours suggest Hulkenburg has signed with Ferrari.

[POH73]

Good view of it

very balanced

[Sully]

Rumours suggest Hulkenburg has signed with Ferrari.
Well that came out of fucking nowhere.

[TJ]

Hope he has - once again proving the field agrees with me - that Di Resta is over rated. McLaren and Ferrari and Merc not interested.

[Joe]

once again proving the field agrees with me

Formula One better recognise.

[Wrexter]

http://youtu.be/G_4e1CcrXdg?hd=1

[sdwz180]

Hope he has - once again proving the field agrees with me - that Di Resta is over rated. McLaren and Ferrari and Merc not interested.

It's only a romour.

Hulkenburg has only finished ahead of Di Resta 5 times so far this season. Or doesn't that count?

[ClevoCapri]

Fastest lap @ Singapore GP. Hulkenburg.

[TJ]

Fastest laps mean nothing these days.

[masTers]

http://www.f1-fansite.com/f1-news/ecclestone-pushing-to-scrap-v6-engines/

[Sully]

http://www.f1-fansite.com/f1-news/ecclestone-pushing-to-scrap-v6-engines/
That's going to be an awful lot of wasted money for the engine manufacturers. We know Merc and Ferrari are well into developing their engines. I think Merc and Lewis will be pissed hah!

I personally think the Formula needs to be thoroughly gone over and pointed in a different direction. All the manufacturers want things that are relevant to road cars so they can use it as a R&D test bed but the category is totally dependent on aero and managing the tyres now - the level that these elements operate at are totally irrelevant to road cars and if you get it wrong you're an absolute failure, the sport operates in it's own world. And enforcing green tech on F1 is laughable, if the category was a bit more open to innovation these ideas probably would have come through eventually anyway and possibly operate more efficiently in a drive to carry less weight in fuel.

I believe if there were minimal regulations but with a spending cap, the category would be amazing. Have a high spending cap but not astronomical so the big teams can still use big resources without being ridiculous, then apply regulations for areas like open wheels, driver safety, control tyres, and leave it at that. Open rules for engines, aero, materials, brakes, and everything else. Basically a modern open wheel can-am series. That'd really liven things up and I guarantee we'd see a load a new ideas coming though the series that can be useful to the rest of the world. Introduce the open regulations progressively and boom, amazing and relevant spectacle.

As if that'll happen lol.

[Butcher]

The whole making the cars greener angle is retarded imho, 24 cars out on the track for circa 3hrs every second weekend is barely a piss in the ocean compared to the logistics of flying the circus around the world, kinda like Australia trying to reduce carbon emissions when our footprint is fuckall compared to the global community. Understandably they are trying to encourage the smaller teams to have a go and stay profitable and occasionally one of the middle tier teams compete with the big dogs but still F1 is supposed to be the pinnacle of Motorsport so watering down the brand seems like bad business.
What made it so great was the technical innovation that each teams engineers brought to the opening race of each season then the other teams going fuck thats a good idea and using it themselves now its a case of that cant be within the rules it must be illegal. But in saying that there has never so many different race winners or drivers in with a shot at the title with a handful of races left.

[Kaido]

http://www.f1-fansite.com/f1-news/ecclestone-pushing-to-scrap-v6-engines/

interesting... the rumours i hear where completely different that both ecclestone and Montezemolo where happy with development of the engine and the way it was sounding. There is no point they suspending it for a few years... as Lotus have already said this year any more delays will cost the teams way to much dollars.

[TJ]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/kFk4f8nTFc8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Where did it all go so wrong.

[Buckets]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/kFk4f8nTFc8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Where did it all go so wrong.

We can only hope it DOES all go wrong for him when he leaves and goes to Merc. Hopefully he'll look back at his time with McLaren and appreciated what they did for him. Leaving will be the best thing for the twat one way or another, if he wins with Merc he made the right move. If he winds up still in the same position or worse off he might even grow up.

Be happy for him either way he wins.

[satch]

If he winds up in the same position, hes still winning, made a bucket load more money that Mclaren would have afforded him.


The whole making the cars greener angle is retarded imho, 24 cars out on the track for circa 3hrs every second weekend is barely a piss in the ocean compared to the logistics of flying the circus around the world, kinda like Australia trying to reduce carbon emissions when our footprint is fuckall compared to the global community. Understandably they are trying to encourage the smaller teams to have a go and stay profitable and occasionally one of the middle tier teams compete with the big dogs but still F1 is supposed to be the pinnacle of Motorsport so watering down the brand seems like bad business.
What made it so great was the technical innovation that each teams engineers brought to the opening race of each season then the other teams going fuck thats a good idea and using it themselves now its a case of that cant be within the rules it must be illegal. But in saying that there has never so many different race winners or drivers in with a shot at the title with a handful of races left.

In regards to new engines, its not about making the cars greener, its about making the engines/drivetrain more in line with road going versions to afford R&D and knowledge transfer. Its the manufacturers that have wanted this, all except Ferrari, now Luca is shouting the loudest in regards to cost savings, guess GFC has finally hit home at Maranello.

[Buckets]

Hamilton is a couldabeen. Doesn't matter if he's screwing Nicole or not he won't ever live up to the hype people had for him a few seasons ago. Button is a much more mature and talented driver. Lewis is lucky if he lasts his contract with Mclaren, so many more focused and less precious drivers who would give anything for his seat. He's got talent but no focus.


fucking lol.


LOL Buckets how drunk were you when you posted that.

Well... As pissed and hazy minded as I no doubt was when this was posted I was pretty close. Mclaren didn't try hard enough to keep him or Lewis dropped lip and left either way he's out.

Out of interest Wrexter / TJ does this mean you're both no longer a Mclaren fan's ?

[Jazza]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/kFk4f8nTFc8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Where did it all go so wrong.

I wish these two were still team mates!!

[Wrexter]

I have always been and always been a McLaren supporter.

I will also continue to support Lewis no matter what he does.

Its easy for us to sit here and judge his actions without knowing 90% of the true story. Im sure he had his reasons for the move and im sure it did not have as much to do with money as many people will like to beleive. Lewis has alot of people around him who genuinely care about his future and im sure if he was moving purely based on money, they would of convinced him otherwise.

I think his relationship with McLaren has been souring for quite some time now and alot of people crying that he should leave McLaren and find a real challenge and this is what he has done. Maybe he and Ross Brawn know something we don't. Im sure people though Alonso was crazy to leave Renault for McLaren after winning 2 championships (although that went wrong for various reasons).

I guess in terms of WCC i will be supporting McLaren, in terms of WDC i willl be supporting Lewis.

[TJ]

If he winds up in the same position, hes still winning, made a bucket load more money that Mclaren would have afforded him.



In regards to new engines, its not about making the cars greener, its about making the engines/drivetrain more in line with road going versions to afford R&D and knowledge transfer. Its the manufacturers that have wanted this, all except Ferrari, now Luca is shouting the loudest in regards to cost savings, guess GFC has finally hit home at Maranello.

1. Incorrect - McLaren matched Mercs offer, he still went. This is not driven by money.

2. Motor rules will not change - we are going v6 turbo in 2014. Renault promised they would walk if they wernt upheld. They supply 4 teams and can do up to 6 if needed. There goes the entire sport if they walk.

3. I until now havnt really made a comment about how I feel about Lewis moving. I am a McLaren guy through and through - I watched with joy as Mika won back to back titles, 4 years after he nearly died in one. I watched with pain as Kimis car failed time and time again, and cost him 2 titles in 05 and 06, I cried tears of joy at 4am one November morning in 2008 when one Lewis Hamilton won the title in the most dramatic fashion ever. However, I am probably Lewis Hamiltons biggest fan on these forums. From turkey Gp2 2006, when I first read of his awesome comeback, to now, I have upheld the belief that he is probably the out and out fastest guy out there. The best, the most complete? Not yet. But his raw speed is brilliant. I will continue to support him, as I will Perez at McLaren I guess. Button has never made me positive, especially after his actions with BAR/Williams in his early days.

[Tom]

Kimi is ready for the American GP

http://i.imgur.com/aTyY2.jpg

[Autopilot]

McLaren is a pingpingpingping of a team, I'm not a Lewis fan but I do consider him to be one of the three 1# seeded drivers and true champions on the grid right now. The fact that Money was an excuse for him to leave a team that is so restrictive in terms of earning potential I think is alright. He is the most marketable driver right now and he has to capitalise on that before his career ends. Mclaren take way too bigger slice of that endorsement pie. I mean the drivers don't even get to keep their trophies, Jenson got to keep his chassis that he won his WDC in. Can't see McLaren letting the drivers keep a wheel nut.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/formulaone/article-2210553/Damon-Hill-Lewis-Hamilton-quit-McLaren.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/formulaone/article-2210553/Damon-Hill-Lewis-Hamilton-quit-McLaren.html?ITO=1490)

I think it's alright to earn plenty of money at the top of your sport, Unless you're Kimi Räikkönen, then you should be broke.

[TJ]

The drive isnt money - but the freedoms, some of which, will allow him to make a few more dollars.

I think Whitmarsh would be one of the main drivers behind it.

[Autopilot]

That doesn't quite make sense, So the drive isn't the money but the freedom to make a bit more money, is?.

Seriously though I understand what you mean, I know the salary at Merc AMG isn't what made him make the move but the fact that he has greater control over his own brand and ultimately how much more money he can make from that.
Lets face it, winning certainly isn't the drive behind him leaving otherwise he would have stayed.

[TJ]

Yeah, I dont believe its either right now.

End of the day 1/2 million in personal sponsors means fuckall when you are worth 80 mill @ 27

Winning - well yeah, the Macca is top of the pack atm, and the rules for next year are pretty much the same, so no doubt they will be up there.

I think he simply needs a change from the suffocating life of McLaren

[JME]

He only knows Mclaren, he's young and still has fearless potential to tap into. He's got another good 10years in him if he can keep himself 'fresh'. What he's doing makes total sense.

[TheChad]

Maybe I'm easily swung by the media, but I just don't rate Lewis that highly ATM. pingpingpingping can certainly turn laps but he hasn't felt that complete recently. Hopefully a sea change will get him back on track to his much lamented potential. I guess he did so well so young it seemed he could only get better, now he's a bit older it's more like people expected a lot more from him. But for me that's why f1 is interesting.

Also I'm biased towards button, I prefer his style, he isn't really delivering though. Maybe now hell have a bit more of the team behind him, being a senior driver in his prime as far as experience goes.

[TJ]

Are you serious?

Lewis's driving this year has been brilliant. Hes made tyres last when his team mate, the king of smooth, couldnt.

If it wasnt for his teams fuckups he would be leading the WDC, and probably have two more race wins under his belt.

[Kaido]

no surprises here really

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/102996

Don't understand how they are still not getting accurate results from their wind tunnel...

[Autopilot]

I don't think it's the tunnel itself but the instrumentation and equipment might have a fault in it throwing out wrong figures during testing.

[satch]

1. Incorrect - McLaren matched Mercs offer, he still went. This is not driven by money.

2. Motor rules will not change - we are going v6 turbo in 2014. Renault promised they would walk if they wernt upheld. They supply 4 teams and can do up to 6 if needed. There goes the entire sport if they walk.

3. I until now havnt really made a comment about how I feel about Lewis moving. I am a McLaren guy through and through - I watched with joy as Mika won back to back titles, 4 years after he nearly died in one. I watched with pain as Kimis car failed time and time again, and cost him 2 titles in 05 and 06, I cried tears of joy at 4am one November morning in 2008 when one Lewis Hamilton won the title in the most dramatic fashion ever. However, I am probably Lewis Hamiltons biggest fan on these forums. From turkey Gp2 2006, when I first read of his awesome comeback, to now, I have upheld the belief that he is probably the out and out fastest guy out there. The best, the most complete? Not yet. But his raw speed is brilliant. I will continue to support him, as I will Perez at McLaren I guess. Button has never made me positive, especially after his actions with BAR/Williams in his early days.

TJ was merely pointing out that from a commercial point of view, Lewis has won, plus he will get to keep the actual trophies at Merc.

[esky]

Pretty sure the Singapore DNF sealed the deal. Pretty sure Hamilton is sitting there thinking, i've been waiting for a fast car for the last few years, now i've got it Mclaren still fuck it up.

Lauda, Prost, Senna, Räikkönen, Alonso, Hamilton have all left the team. Thats a pretty impressive list of drivers that have packed up and moved on to race with other teams.

One WCC since 1991.

If Ross Brawn gets Merc into shape, they got at least a good as chance of winning titles as Mclaren.

[Jazza]

TJ was merely pointing out that from a commercial point of view, Lewis has won, plus he will get to keep the actual trophies at Merc.

Merc don't win any trophies to keep? :( lol

[Kaido]

Pretty sure the Singapore DNF sealed the deal. Pretty sure Hamilton is sitting there thinking, i've been waiting for a fast car for the last few years, now i've got it Mclaren still fuck it up.

Lauda, Prost, Senna, Räikkönen, Alonso, Hamilton have all left the team. Thats a pretty impressive list of drivers that have packed up and moved on to race with other teams.

One WCC since 1991.

If Ross Brawn gets Merc into shape, they got at least a good as chance of winning titles as Mclaren.

I remember reading somewhere that European Drivers were not treated great at Mclaren compare to British Drivers ... guess Hamilton is the exception

[EVLO]

One positive out of all this. Won't have to endure that Hamilton Tag ad 50 times a race since Mercedes is sponsored by Thomas Sabo.. :D

[TJ]

Pretty sure the Singapore DNF sealed the deal. Pretty sure Hamilton is sitting there thinking, i've been waiting for a fast car for the last few years, now i've got it Mclaren still fuck it up.

Lauda, Prost, Senna, Räikkönen, Alonso, Hamilton have all left the team. Thats a pretty impressive list of drivers that have packed up and moved on to race with other teams.

One WCC since 1991.

If Ross Brawn gets Merc into shape, they got at least a good as chance of winning titles as Mclaren.

Singapore may have well sealed the deal actually.

Lauda - He did not leave, he retired after a dismal 1985. Shit he only came back because his airline needed dollars.
Prost - He left because he couldnt/wouldnt/whatever deal with Senna.
Senna - He left because McLaren were getting 2nd rate engines, which meant they had no chance of being competitive - back then there was no homologation, so unless you were factory backed, you had to take what you got. Benneton vetoed McLaren getting the same up to spec engine as them. Senna always moved to where he thought he would be best. toleman to lotus to macca to williams..
Räikkönen - Frustrated by a constantly breaking car, and the need to be a pr machine - understandable
Alonso - He blackmailed the team after looping out due to a 22 year old black kid matching him. Also, the team failed, even I admit that.
Hamilton - Its soured over a couple of seasons from when Whitmarsh took over.

Every team has some sort of history with drivers leaving in negative ways

- Ferrari fired prost, Mansell walked, and they sold out Kimi
- Williams fired Hill as he was winning a WDC. They fucked over Zanardi, HHF, and JV, and the infamous contract stuff with Button (though that was Buttons fault)

Brawn fucked over Bruno Senna who pretty much had a done deal and kept Rubens on, then split with Button after he won a WDC

Torro Rosso tosses drivers left right and centre.

Geez - Red Bull are actually pretty clean in this regard, but have only a short history.

[satch]

Frank has always been a stickler for paying drivers bugger all, he was off the belief that the car made the driver, which might have been true to an extent back in the 90's. Now people pay Frank to drive for him, so I'd say not much has changed...

[maximus]

Hamilton testing the 2013 Mercedes:

http://i.imgur.com/Qy1s0.jpg

[TJ]

Just like the 11 and 12 cars its going to have shit traction

[Kaido]

only different is no step nose next year

[TJ]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/formulaone/article-2212378/Lewis-Hamilton-Ive-betrayed-McLaren--Japanese-Grand-Prix-2012.html?ito=feeds-newsxml


http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/103024

Interesting stories

For the money - myth. McLaren offered him more than anyones been offered before - so probably 20 or so million a season?

I think McLaren assumed Lewis would never go. But I also think nothing they did could of made him stay.

[satch]

They must of not have offered him something he wanted, whether that was more commercial freedom or trophies who knows.... might come out one day.

[TheChad]

Maybe he was upset they were still letting Jenson win the odd race?

But seriously, well never know, my guess is he just didn't get the wins he thinks he deserves. And was also upset with the team. Any of you had the same job for over half your life? Sometimes you just need a sea change to get in a better place internally.

[sdwz180]

Schumacher retires, again.

http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/284938/schumacher-announces-retirement-from-formula-1/

[fourseven]

Such a shame he didn't get a win. Still holds the most records in F1 by a long shot. Still the greatest to ever drive in F1 in my opinion.

[V70R]

Such a shame he didn't get a win. Still holds the most records in F1 by a long shot. Still the greatest to ever drive in F1 in my opinion.

Agree,
Also a shame his car always had such bad luck.

[sdwz180]

Could he have won races in his second F1 stint though. Gone are the days where he only had to contend with his team mate, 2 McLarens and the odd Williams/Benetton or Jordan if something went wrong.

[TJ]

Could he have won races in his second F1 stint though. Gone are the days where he only had to contend with his team mate, 2 McLarens and the odd Williams/Benetton or Jordan if something went wrong.

Name one team mate he actually had to contend with when he was actually good?

I will always remember him as a flawed genius.

[Jazza]

Been good to have him back just wish he had a competitive car to race at the front, sad he didn't win on his comeback.

[Kaido]

I am so happy i was able to witness one of the true great of the sport in the flesh! Heres hoping he can get some good results in the same few races of the season!

[fourseven]

TJ's just emo that Schumacher gave Senna a spanking.

[Buckets]

He was a good driver with a brilliant car. An F1 great for sure but not the "greatest".

[sdwz180]

Does that include checking his mirrors to see where Damon was and glancing right to turn into Villeneuve...

[Tocchi]

and rubens

[TJ]

http://i.qkme.me/3r436n.jpg

[TheChad]

Schumacher has said before that his favourite section of any track is the esses at Suzuka, if only we could watch him win there... Too late in the season for a low scoring team like merc to bother with development, save it all for next year. Guess we won't get to see him win one again.

[TJ]

On the day that Michael Schumacher's Formula 1 comeback with Mercedes was announced – 23 December 2009 – he spoke of his desire to fight for the world championship.

"I have won the title seven times and the team won both titles last year, so what do you expect," said Schumacher of his aspirations to fight for the title with, don't forget, what was then the world champion team.

"Now Mercedes are team owners, you cannot expect anything else other than the world title. That is what we aim for."

Almost three years later, he has announced that his second career has only six races left to run. And far from challenging for the title, he has just one podium finish to his name.


The start of Schu 2.0: It was all smiles at the launch of the new Silver Arrows team in 2010 © LAT
So it's an open-and-shut case. By his own standards, his comeback is a failure. A case of an old (in sporting term's) man's failure to realise that his time is past and a futile attempt to recapture past glories. But it isn't.

While many have revelled in the once all-conquering Schumacher's more embarrassing moments, such as rear-ending Jean-Eric Vergne in Singapore two weeks ago, it's not quite that simple.

Forget about Schumacher's PR-friendly comments on his return. Amid the white noise of platitudes and soundbites, what could realistically have been expected and how far did Schumacher achieve them?

First and foremost, it's unfair to use the quote about wanting to fight for the title against him. Mercedes hasn't had the machinery to do that.

So rather than using that as a stick to beat him, the real barometer is his performance relative to team-mate Nico Rosberg. Over the past three seasons, Rosberg has been the top points-scorer and the better qualifier, although taking 2012 alone it's Schumacher who has, on balance, been slightly stronger on Saturday afternoons. So we can conclude that, even if Mercedes did have the best car, it would be Rosberg leading the line. Perhaps that's the case, but was Schumacher's real mistake not in thinking he still had a title in him in the first place?

When he made his 'debut' in the 2010 Bahrain Grand Prix, he was already a 40-year-old. What's more, he was a 40-year-old who had been out of F1 racing for three years and who had suffered a very serious motorcycle accident that might have killed one with a weaker neck just over a year before.

He faced a sport that had been transformed, with no chance to accelerate his progress by the prodigious testing that would allow him to catch-up.


Neither the car, nor the man, were as consistently quick as expected in 2010 though both improved © LAT
There is a lot to be said for this, as shown by the fact that during the past three years, Schumacher has gradually crept up on Rosberg to the point where both are operating at a similar level in 2012, even though the points don't show it.

If those sound like excuses, they aren't. They are the correct terms of reference for evaluating his return.

Should we ever have expected him to lead the line for Mercedes at that age and having sat on the sidelines for so long? No matter how remarkable his previous achievements, should the ceiling of his ambition have been to be exactly what he has proved to be – a decent, middle-ranking a grand prix driver?

Arguably, Schumacher's real shortcoming was not to realise just how tough it would be. In an interview with AUTOSPORT that appeared in our 2011 season review issue, he admitted as much.

"A lot of people asked me if I would do the same [come back to F1] knowing what I know now and I have to say yes," said Schumacher. "I didn't expect the difficulties and would have expected a little more success. But the most important thing is how it ends. If you have to work hard to have a successful ending, I don't mind."

Schumacher was clearly referring to a much happier ending than today's, when in the wake of Lewis Hamilton signing for Mercedes he was forced to accept that "it's time to say goodbye."

But let's just look at what he has achieved.

On the plus side, he has been a consistent points scorer. His 52 races with Mercedes to date have yielded 30 points finishes – one podium, four fourth places and a trio of fifth places the highlight.


Schumacher has found the winning smile hard to come by, though has derived pleasure from other aspects of the sport © LAT
Despite what the record books might tell you, he did take pole position at Monaco this year and it was only when the five-place grid penalty, given to him for rear-ending Bruno Senna in Spain one race earlier, was applied, that he was relegated to sixth. Anybody who claims that taking pole position at Monaco is the achievement of a failure as a driver is, frankly, an idiot.

Ranged against that there is the fact that Rosberg has, judged over three seasons, comfortably beaten him. It's the first time that any team-mate has had the better of Schumacher during his F1 career. Then there are the blunders, with Nick Heidfeld, Vitaly Petrov, Senna, Vergne and Sergio Perez among his victims on-track, not to mention Rubens Barrrichello, who was apoplectic when he found himself being shoved towards the pit-wall by his old Ferrari team-mate in Hungary two years ago.

The idea that this is because of a lack of reflexes or poor eyesight in his hold age is nonsense, this was Schumacher failing to anticipate situations ahead of him and showing a lack of savvy in battle and it is only right that he be slated for it.

That all adds up to a mixed bag as a grand prix driver. And that's exactly what you tend to find in the middle ranks of the field. Here, among the promising up-and-comers, reside the nearly-men. Drivers of huge ability, but not necessarily those who tick all of the boxes needed to be a champion.

Schumacher was the gold standard back in the day, but now he's just another of those flawed men who flit between good days, bad days and indifferent days. He's a good grand prix driver, but not a great one.

That's why he has chosen the right time to walk away.


Errors like the one in Singapore, when Schumacher crashed in to Jean-Eric Vergne, were perhaps a sign © LAT
Had Hamilton not signed, chances are he would have gone on for another season or two. He would have continued to do the same decent job and maybe he'd even have claimed the upper hand over Rosberg, had his trajectory continued along its current path. If the Mercedes is as good in 2014, when the new engines come in, as Hamilton expects it to be, then winning a race was eminently possible. But no way is he championship class anymore and days like Monaco this year could only ever have been occasional.

But while Schumacher was keen to carry on, it wasn't at the expense of his dignity. Scrambling around to piece together a commercially-driven deal to drive for, say, Williams or Sauber would have smacked of desperation.

There will be those who use this three-year second career as evidence that Schumacher led a charmed life first time round and never let him forget it. Certainly, he needed a fair wind on his side to win seven world championships, but so would any driver no matter how great. And there were unquestionably black marks on his record.

But far from tainting his legacy, he's shown us another side to his character. He came back for one reason – to race. And all the indications are that he has loved it.

When he could have sat back and rested on his laurels, he risked his neck, literally, to take on the top guys who age meant he couldn't realistically beat. And he did pretty well. If that's any kind of failure, it's one of misplaced expectation rather than achievement.

Schumacher 2.0 is not as good as his predecessor. He didn't win the championship and, save for a miracle in the final six races, he won't win a race. But he has competed and done so credibly when he probably shouldn't have been able to.

The great driver of the past might be gone, but a decent and determined one remains, even at an age where most have long since packed their helmet away for good. He can still do it, just not anywhere near as well as he used to.

For that, he deserves a huge amount of respect. Perhaps even more than he gained for all of those great victories and championships first time around.

[Jazza]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/103055
LOL at Alonso's comments about McLaren!

[fourseven]

Spot on comments though.

I'll never forget that video where Ron Dennis gets up in front of McLaren sponsors and partners and criticised Prost, after Senna and Prost collided. Both Prost and Senna were driving for McLaren and he called out his own driver, then criticised the FIA for not punishing Prost.

McLaren, and in particular Ron Dennis, can get fucked. Too bad it wasn't someone like that cock who hit a wall in San Marino instead of Senna. Couldn't have happened to a more deserving bloke.

[EVLO]

Reminder that Quali is on at 12:30pm tomorrow and the race from 1:30pm Sunday being in Japan....

[TJ]

Vettel pole

RBR Front row

Horrid Q3 for Hamilton, Kimi spun off, yellow killed his run

[fourseven]

Lewis locked up in S1 before Kimi came off. Don't think he would've moved up the grid much.

[Jazza]

What a boring quali session!!

[bjohnson]

LOL

All of a sudden Hulkenberg has started following Alonso on Twitter and Alguersuari has started to follow Force India...

Nothing suss.

[fourseven]

Alguersuari has apparently signed with Sauber (this has been confirmed by multiple "insiders" but no official announcement)
Hulkenberg has apparently signed with Ferrari.
Schumacher's people have been spotted meeting with Sauber regularly since the Lewis announcement.
Kobayashi has hinted that he doesn't have a seat next year.

Sounds like there could be some serious seat swapping coming up.

[TheChad]

Kobakazi with no seat next year?
But who will the cameras follow at Suzuka then?

[Douche Bag]

aaaahhah


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0TQUcvqNFc

[Autopilot]

Kobakazi with no seat next year?
But who will the cameras follow at Suzuka then?

Jessica Michibata

http://www.flagworld.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Jenson-Button-Jessica-Michibata.jpg

Dunno who that fag washing her down is.

[TJ]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/QkfsiMXwIDo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Great interview

[TJ]

FRED gone!!!+

[Frenchy]

Holy shit! BIG start....

[ELUSIV]

Fred :(

[Douche Bag]

YESSSSSSS NANDO OUT!

Go Kob!!

[Buckets]

Come ooooonnnnnnn Jenson !

[Adr3naL1N]

Fucking grosjean you aare useless!!

[TheChad]

Next race lotus to try out a new front wing. Less aero more snow plow...

Kimi wasn't his fault so much, Romain on the other hand... useless...

[ELUSIV]

Rumour Mill: Grosjean and Maldanado to go to NASCAR for 2013

[manna_85]

Eat shit Grosjean u karnt...

[Frenchy]

Perez made a nice move on Hamo

[bjohnson]

Lol @ Rosberg burning Grosjean.

I imagine he is going to have a very unpleasant conversation with the FIA when the race is done.

[Frenchy]

Perez you silly Mexican

[TJ]

Perez made a nice move on Hamo

hahhahahahhaha

[masTers]

Perez made a nice move on Hamo

Couldn't do it twice

[Adr3naL1N]

perez a little over excited

grosjean seriosuly potato will be loving him now, drawing all the attention away from him. I think the drivers want him out!

[TJ]

one time i will retaaaaaaaaaaaaaaard

next time maybe vettel will retaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaard

-fernando alonso

[TheChad]

I had a chuckle at that

Be nice if Ricciardo can score a point or two. He's beating his teammate once again.

What's that, 7 add breaks? Bullshit!!! (I'm streaming, but 1 is much clearer)

[Kaido]

Massa doing well would have been interesting to know where alonso would have been.
Going to be interesting to see how ferrari go if they have any working updates

[Adr3naL1N]

come one dan!!! hold off the old man!!

[Lonewolf]

good to see kamui get on the podium at home
points for danny

alonso would have been right up there considering massa's pace, cant do much when you retard though.

[TheChad]

That was great driving by Dan!

[ALEX.]

Well done to Dan for holding off Shuey. Some nice defensive driving with good car placement.
And Massa in P2! He's not as shit as we think

[Frenchy]

Really enjoyed that race and the results. Some big moves through the field also!

[fourseven]

Hate to think where Alonso could've finished. Was actually cheering hoping Button would take Kamui.

Was Lewis in Japan? xox

[Alt_F4]

Great to see Kobayashi on podium!
Funny to see Alonso be a potato and Massa take 2nd.

[Adr3naL1N]

great drive by dan, showing why he deserves a decent seat in formula 1. Cant wait for him to be in a championship winning car. Closes to within one point of the frog, although he has had 4 points finishes to vergnes two and in every other race bar 1 or 2 has beaten him. Dominating him.

Grosjean you are a muppet had a massive laugh on his fan page on facebook, so many pingpingpingpings giving him shit!

[TJ]

Hate to think where Alonso could've finished. Was actually cheering hoping Button would take Kamui.

Was Lewis in Japan? xox

Shame he cant even get to turn 1 without hitting another car, who is he, Grosjean?

xoxo

The crowd going mental for Koba so good to see

[Tocchi]

CHHHHAMMMMMPPPPAAGGGNNNEEEE

[TJ]

Top 4 - 42 points.

5 races.

Lotus cant win it without bringing something to the car.

Fernando in the same boat.

Lewis would need cards to fall his way.

Vettel 3 in a row.... fml.

[TheChad]

Translation of kamuis speech:

"We attack pearl harbour tomorrow at dawn."

[TJ]

LOL

"first lap nutcase Grosjean"

"maybe he needs another holiday"

"its quite embarrassing at this level"

-Mark Webber

[fourseven]

Lol at Hamilton still having a WDC chance. McLaren are going to give him broken parts.

By year end it will be Alonso or Vettel with 2 or 3. Lewis with 1 xox

[Kaido]

Interesting people thinking was alonso fault? don't think it was kimi fault just not enough room, racing incidents. Its game on if Ferrari can up there gain and bring something that works to the car. or else sorry to say Vettle will be taking his 3rd championship

[Butcher]

Was spewing when the telemetry showed MSC pass Daniel on the last lap but keep the camera on vet just cruising around, glad that he was able to retake 10th

[Kaido]

sum up ferrari atm ""Yesterday we qualified sixth and eleventh. We have had the same car for six races, without adding any new bits, and it's a bit thanks to the circumstances..."

every time has made progress and ferrari hasn't and didn't they say new package update for the redbull at Korean

[mischief1]

LOL

"first lap nutcase Grosjean"

"maybe he needs another holiday"

"its quite embarrassing at this level"

-Mark Webber

as above, stupid french fuck.

[Jazza]

Obviously I was following Lewis's progress and it was incredibly strange. His seemed to lose his tires through too much understeer at the start of the stints but then look after them better later in stints and begin to get stronger as everyone else was falling off.. I've never seen that happen! Shame they messed up the set up for the car, was very boring race at the front. Hope RBR isn't going to walk it now, that double DRS is pretty decent for quali!
Alonso was terribly unlucky, Massa.. WTF, I wonder what the odds were on him getting a podium haha. Awesome stuff for KK!

[SimonR32]

Interesting people thinking was alonso fault? don't think it was kimi fault just not enough room, racing incidents. Its game on if Ferrari can up there gain and bring something that works to the car. or else sorry to say Vettle will be taking his 3rd championship

Please explain the difference between this incident and the Grosjean/Hamilton incident where he banned for one race?

[satch]

I think the grosjean hamilton incident was just the straw that broke the camels back, it was a string or errors.

He has obviously still not learnt.

[Kaido]

Please explain the difference between this incident and the Grosjean/Hamilton incident where he banned for one race?

I don't see the big deal? FIA didn't investigative because it was a racing incident, Kimi was trying to go round the outside, Alonso move over there was no room for kimi so his front wing touch Alonso rear wheel... puncture and alonso spun?

you can see Kimi try to move over but he was right on the grass, equally Alonso had button on his right where was he meant to go?

I am a Alonso supporter but that is just racing and don't blame Kimi for it.


Alonso luck had to run out sooner or later

[SimonR32]

I don't see the big deal? FIA didn't investigative because it was a racing incident, Kimi was trying to go round the outside, Alonso move over there was no room for kimi so his front wing touch Alonso rear wheel... puncture and alonso spun?

you can see Kimi try to move over but he was right on the grass, equally Alonso had button on his right where was he meant to go?

I am a Alonso supporter but that is just racing and don't blame Kimi for it.


Alonso luck had to run out sooner or later

You did not answer my question

[fourseven]

LOL watch some replays. If you can't tell the difference, stop watching F1.

[Butcher]

<object width="640" height="390"><param name="movie" value="http://videa.hu/flvplayer.swf?v=f0BiG7raA5QxjJwN" /><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always" /><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true" /><embed width="640" height="390" src="http://videa.hu/flvplayer.swf?v=f0BiG7raA5QxjJwN" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" /></object><br /><a href="http://videa.hu/videok/sport/f1-2012-japan-grosjean-webber-alonso-crash-kobayashi-f0BiG7raA5QxjJwN" title="F1 2012 - Japan - Grosjean &amp; Webber Crash">szólj hozzá: F1 2012 - Japan - Grosjean &amp; Webber Crash</a>

<object width="640" height="390"><param name="movie" value="http://videa.hu/flvplayer.swf?v=kjisl3OKeQa7sIqP" /><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always" /><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true" /><embed width="640" height="390" src="http://videa.hu/flvplayer.swf?v=kjisl3OKeQa7sIqP" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" /></object><br /><a href="http://videa.hu/videok/sport/f1-2012-japan-alonso-crash-kjisl3OKeQa7sIqP" title="F1 2012 - Japan - Alonso Crash">szólj hozzá: F1 2012 - Japan - Alonso Crash</a>

[Butcher]

From that second video it looks to me like alonso had room to move right he just didnt want kimi to pass

[fourseven]

There's 2 issues with the collision. The first is where Alonso moves to block Kimi, leaving him just enough room to continue. Kimi probably has half a tyre off track at this stage, but Alonso moves right heading to the middle of the track by which time Kimi is completely back on track. Alonso then moves to the left again to avoid a mid track collision with Button who is cutting across from the right hand side and also heading to the middle of the track. As a result Kimi has wheels off track again, loses control and clips Alonso's wheel sending Alonso off.

The Grosjean v Hamilton incident is very different. Grosjean cut across half the track to block Lewis, causing the collision. He had no one on his left at the time but continued to drive into Lewis while Lewis was half way up on Grosjean's car.

I don't really have beef with blaming Alonso. He lost the most today of anyone, so punishment served.

[SimonR32]

LOL watch some replays. If you can't tell the difference, stop watching F1.

I watch with two eyes, not one :)

Both incidents happened before the first corner.
Both times front wheels hit rear wheels.
Both times the cars in front didn't leave a car widths room.
Both incidents the car in front moved over and hit the other car.
Both had enough room on the other side to leave enough room.

The result was different but that's out of their control, Alonso spun across the track lucky to not hit anyone. Same infringement... Not leaving enough room causing a crash :)

[fourseven]

The videos right there mate. Try again.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/lBM4KpxfsPc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Very different.

[SimonR32]

The Grosjean v Hamilton incident is very different. Grosjean cut across half the track to block Lewis, causing the collision. He had no one on his left at the time but continued to drive into Lewis while Lewis was half way up on Grosjean's car.

Alonso started on the right of the grid, he cut across half the track to block Kimi. I put it to you that if Kimi didn't hit the grass when he was half way up Alonso's car that the impact could have caused the exact same result.

PS. Button was on his right, but nowhere near him realistically. There was almost a full car's width between them at all times...

[fourseven]

Which he's entitled to do. The original block didn't cause the accident, Alonso reacting to Button is what caused the accident. Alonso blocked, moved right, Button moved left, Alonso reacted to Button, Raikkonen reacted to Alonso.

But that's not what you asked. You asked what the difference is between this and Grosjean's race ban incident. Do you honestly think it's the same?

[SimonR32]

Which he's entitled to do. The original block didn't cause the accident, Alonso reacting to Button is what caused the accident. Alonso blocked, moved right, Button moved left, Alonso reacted to Button, Raikkonen reacted to Alonso.

But that's not what you asked. You asked what the difference is between this and Grosjean's race ban incident. Do you honestly think it's the same?

My point was Kaido was saying it wasn't Alonso's fault, I was comparing to another incident (which I agree is much more severe and worse) but similar to be deemed at "fault".

Alonso had more than enough room on the right (about a car's width at all times between him and Button) to leave Kimi room but he didn't which caused contact.

Usually Alosno is almost infallible in events like this but today he fucked up.

I just knew Kaido had no evidence to back up his pro-Fezza opinion :)

Alonso suffered enough as a result. I'm happy as it helped with my WDC bet on the Nazi!!!

[SimonR32]

In other news, go Dan!

Another points finish, fingers crossed he keeps this up and their car is a bit more competitive next year

[Brockas]

Bloody commentary / telemetry toying with my emotions... Last lap Ricciardo's place dropped twice, and then he appeared in 17th. Sad. Then he reappears in 10th. Happy. Then David Croft makes his 172nd fuck-up of the race and announces Schumacher in 10th. Sad. Then corrects himself and announces Daniel in 10th. Happy.

[[Jacek]]

I stayed sad until the 6o'clock news mentioned 10th, then became happy

[urabus]

I know they have different engines but why the hell doesn't Toro Rosso just get one update old parts from the Red Bull? Surely there are massive economies of scale. My guess is that the FIA says you cant have 4 car super teams but I am sure there are ways around it. Would be better for everyone IMHO.

Brendon

[fourseven]

http://www1.skysports.com/formula-1/news/12433/8147784/

FUUUUUUUUUU

[fourseven]

I know they have different engines but why the hell doesn't Toro Rosso just get one update old parts from the Red Bull? Surely there are massive economies of scale. My guess is that the FIA says you cant have 4 car super teams but I am sure there are ways around it. Would be better for everyone IMHO.

Brendon

Can't share parts or development at all. The questions from last year on RBR's spending, and how close they apparently got to being raped by the FIA, I doubt they'll ever take the risk.

[Brockas]

I know they have different engines but why the hell doesn't Toro Rosso just get one update old parts from the Red Bull? Surely there are massive economies of scale. My guess is that the FIA says you cant have 4 car super teams but I am sure there are ways around it. Would be better for everyone IMHO.

Brendon
'Customer cars' were banned a few years ago. You're not allowed to share anything at all chassis related.

You are however able to sell mechanical parts to other teams (kers, engines, gearboxes, etc)

[MGR]

http://www1.skysports.com/formula-1/news/12433/8147784/

FUUUUUUUUUU

Well at least this keeps Alonso happy. We all know how cranky he gets with a competitive team mate.

[MaTMaN]

http://imageshack.us/a/img507/2779/imagebtb.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img198/9369/imagecokg.jpg

PS not my images, no i dont follow Julia haha

[fourseven]

Yeah all over the web. Stupid twat.

[mehow2g]

pingpingpingping is full of himself, sounds like a attention whore explains his gf's really.

[MadDocker]

Must be because he's bl.... oody arrogant.

[Kaido]

http://www1.skysports.com/formula-1/news/12433/8147784/

FUUUUUUUUUU

All Bullshit aside, who could Ferrari have gotten to replace him other than Lewis, and maybe Kimi. There isn't anyone who isn't lock into a team that i personally could do a better job than Massa, Yes he hasn't had the best run this season but really at times the Ferrari was very much a dog of a car.

I don't think Massa is a bad drive, he might not be at the level of Alonso, Vettle or Lewis but he is skill none the less and has been putting in good results for the team recently

[Kaido]

My point was Kaido was saying it wasn't Alonso's fault, I was comparing to another incident (which I agree is much more severe and worse) but similar to be deemed at "fault".

Alonso had more than enough room on the right (about a car's width at all times between him and Button) to leave Kimi room but he didn't which caused contact.

Usually Alosno is almost infallible in events like this but today he fucked up.

I just knew Kaido had no evidence to back up his pro-Fezza opinion :)

Alonso suffered enough as a result. I'm happy as it helped with my WDC bet on the Nazi!!!

haha... has nothing to do with my Pro-Fezza opinion. It was a racing incident ... yeah alonso could of done things differently but so could have kimi or even button... None of the drivers where at fault it just something that happen racing. Hence why i do understand people blaming Alonso

[Jazza]

It's pretty obvious Lewis doesn't think before he tweets and I don't think he's very smart with what he writes but as Brundle said "Yes saw Lewis's tweets. He's being honest + thinking aloud to you. Prob not wise on Twitter but he could otherwise BS or disappear so relax"

[Douche Bag]

All Bullshit aside, who could Ferrari have gotten to replace him other than Lewis, and maybe Kimi. There isn't anyone who isn't lock into a team that i personally could do a better job than Massa, Yes he hasn't had the best run this season but really at times the Ferrari was very much a dog of a car.

I don't think Massa is a bad drive, he might not be at the level of Alonso, Vettle or Lewis but he is skill none the less and has been putting in good results for the team recently

Really want to see Kobayashi in a fast car. His overtakes alone make him great lol.

[TJ]

LOLLLLLLLL @ defending Massa.

Are you for real?

[TJ]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/K2zk7fzBW1s" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

And yet.. as a Lewis fan, I fell pretty empty.

20 grand prix wins, countless moments of joy. But you look back, 2011 was shocking, 2009 the car was a dog. He has driven brilliantly this year.

But it really should be 2 titles, and a chance at a 3rd now. Maybe even 4.

[fourseven]

He's ALWAYS had the advantage of a McLaren F1 seat... a HUGE advantage! We've not seem him come up with a shit car, we've not seen him have to struggle for funds to keep a seat. He's had more and better opportunities than anyone to excel in this sport bar none, and really has nothing to show for it. I honestly don't believe he will win another title in his career.

Alonso is in his prime, and with a decent car will win another 1 or 2. Shortly after Vettel won his first WDC I said to friends at the following Melbourne GP that if anyone in the future of F1 will break Schumi's 7 world championship's record, it will be Vettel. Kimi's back, surely another championship coming this way. If Lewis couldn't get it right in the last 2/3 years with every advantage he's had I don't think he's got a hope in hell over the next 5.

[TJ]

Alonso had a decent car in 2010.

Kimi... maybe. Lotus are low on dollars, who knows what they have put into the 2013 car atm. If its shit, Kimi will bail. Where? Well, ironically if Vettel goes to Ferrari, there will be a nice seat at RBR....

Last 3 years.

2010 - broken box, and an innocent touch to Massa at the 2nd chicane in Monza ruined that.
2011 - no one got near Vettel
2012 - if the McLaren hadnt broken, and had the team not fucked him on several occaisons he would be leading the title easy.

[Brockas]

Kimi... maybe. Lotus are low on dollars, who knows what they have put into the 2013 car atm. If its shit, Kimi will bail. Where? Well, ironically if Vettel goes to Ferrari, there will be a nice seat at RBR....
Why do people keep suggesting that Vettel may go to Ferrari?


The only reason that would even get talked about is so Vettel can use it in contract negotiations with RBR to get more money out of them. I would bet my car on the fact that he will not leave RBR while they are producing a title-challenging car.

Think of the organisational structure as well? At RBR, Seb is the golden child. The whole team revolves around him and I'm sure his suggestions for development are what Newey would focus on. At Ferrari he will never get that treatment while Alonso is there.

[Kaido]

LOLLLLLLLL @ defending Massa.

Are you for real?

Who on the grid which doesn't have a drive next year would perform better than him? At best it would be a guessing, since driving for Ferrari 2006 he has not finish lower than 6th in the driver championship (bar 2009 when he had his accident). I would not class his as one of the best drivers on the grid but he does what is needed, If Ferrari was to sign anyone else they can not be sure that driver would perform. Look at the 2009 season when Giancarlo Fisichella step in for Massa.

As i have said many times before yes his results this year haven't been great but look at the Ferrari, He is starting to come good now and his race results are showing that. Sure there could be better drivers taking his spot but remember Ferrari need to keep Alonso happy they have his 5 year deal and there best chance at winning a championship comes from him


Why do people keep suggesting that Vettel may go to Ferrari?


The only reason that would even get talked about is so Vettel can use it in contract negotiations with RBR to get more money out of them. I would bet my car on the fact that he will not leave RBR while they are producing a title-challenging car.

Think of the organisational structure as well? At RBR, Seb is the golden child. The whole team revolves around him and I'm sure his suggestions for development are what Newey would focus on. At Ferrari he will never get that treatment while Alonso is there.

I guess because Vettel himself said he would like to drive for Ferrari one day, But i do tend to agree with you that unless Ferrari start upping there game in car development Vettel won't leave RBR why would he when its his best chance at winning a championship.

[TJ]

It should not take a driver of his experience 3/4 of a season to start getting results.

He has been nowhere near Alonso is virtually every qualifying and race.

Who would do better than him in that car?

-Koba
-Hulk
-Pastor (yes, pastor)
-Kova

[[Jacek]]

Pastor on every 5th/6th race between destroying other cars and being a potato

[Brockas]

TJ is right though. Pastor actually has a LOT of natural pace.
Yes, he's a bit down-syndrome, but once he starts to control his aggressiveness he will consistently score points and put the car in good positions after qualifying.

Koba - well, even Sauber aren't happy with him.

Hulk - Probably going to Sauber, but naturally wouldn't pass up a Ferrari drive. Is he good enough? Not sure.

Heikki - He's already had a shot in a big seat and failed. Do you really think he'll get another one or will he be confined to the lower teams like Timo Glock etc?

[POH73]

TJ is right though. Pastor actually has a LOT of natural pace.
Yes, he's a bit down-syndrome, but once he starts to control his aggressiveness he will consistently score points and put the car in good positions after qualifying.

Well summed up, as much as it pains me to say it! Needing to learn self control is much better than insufficient speed




http://i.imgur.com/VtRID.jpg

[Brockas]

L

O

L

[batmat]

http://i.imgur.com/d5lRp.gif

The poor guy on the left had a drs malfunction just as it was his time to shine.

[schwarz]

The poor guy on the left had a drs malfunction just as it was his time to shine.

Poor guy couldn't get it up

[pgc]

Interesting list here for those on Twitter.

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2012/01/19/fake-f1-twitter-accounts-unfollow/

[Jazza]

The Alonso information on that site is bullshit, I've seen him take photos at the race and it appear on twitter within seconds, don't know about any of the other drivers listed there though

[fourseven]

Yep both Ferrari drivers are on Twitter, and Alonso is on Facebook.

I follow Alonso, Button, Massa, Hamilton, Perez, Grosjean, Buemi, Hulkenberg, Senna, Rosberg, Kovalainen, Ricciardo and Webber on Twitter. Most of them are verified accounts (meaning they need to submit verification it's really them).

This is a much better and more frequently updated list: http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/f1-information/f1-twitter/

[TheChad]

So what's the go with Melbourne tickets next year?

Seems like its only package deals on sale ATM? We are really only interested in buying say and sun, well just get general admission for the Friday if we want. Where do you guys buy your tickets, and when do the day by day sales become available?

[pgc]

This is a much better and more frequently updated list: http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/f1-information/f1-twitter/

Thanks Rhett.

And no-one probably cares:


Baton change at the Sauber F1 Team


Hinwil/Yeongam, 11th October 2012 – Some time ago, Peter Sauber announced that he did not wish to be on the pit wall when he turned 70. The company founder is proving true to his word: in two days’ time – on 13th October – he will turn 69 and is now stepping back from the day-to-day running of the team. Monisha Kaltenborn (41), CEO of Sauber Motorsport AG and responsible for business operations at Hinwil since early 2010, will additionally take over the role of Team Principal at trackside with immediate effect. Peter Sauber will continue in his capacity as President of the Board of Directors of all Sauber Group companies and remain responsible for the Group’s strategic direction.

“We decided a long time ago that Monisha would take over from me,” explains Sauber, “but we left the timing open. Now is a good time for both of us, so this is the right moment to pass on the baton. After all, there have been a number of races I’ve been unable to attend – most recently the Japanese Grand Prix, where the team put in an excellent performance. I’m in no doubt that Monisha has all the necessary skills to be an outstanding Team Principal, and I’m equally certain she will ensure that the values underpinning the company live on. That is very important to me.”

Monisha Kaltenborn, an Austrian of Indian origin, joined the company in 2000 to run the legal department, was appointed a Member of the Board of Management not long afterwards, and took over as CEO in January 2010. In late 2011 Peter Sauber transferred a third of the company’s shares into her name.

“Naturally I’m very aware of the major responsibility I have for Peter Sauber’s racing team,” says Kaltenborn. “He founded the team over 40 years ago, and in the spring it will be 20 years since Sauber lined up for its debut Formula One grand prix. We are the fourth-oldest team in Formula One. To build up a project like this and keep it alive in a difficult environment is a tremendous achievement. I have set my sights high and am committed to taking the team forward as Peter Sauber would want and leading it on to success.”

Note to media:
Peter Sauber and Monisha Kaltenborn will be in the paddock at Yeongam at 17.00 hrs today (Thursday) for photos and joint press interviews. Pictures will then be available for download from media.sauberf1team.com.

[Adr3naL1N]

http://sphotos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/424651_3902522404068_1278334020_n.jpg

[TJ]

Karl I care. Peter has been wonderful to f1

[pgc]

Karl I care. Peter has been wonderful to f1

That's why I posted it - I had hoped that someone would.

[Brockas]

What is the level of Frank Williams involvement these days?

Don't see him too much in the pit lane (for obvious reason) but I take it he's still in controll?

[fourseven]

He went the other way. Stepped down from Williams board, but still team principal. You still occasionally see him sitting in his wheelchair looking like Mr Burns from the garage.

[Brockas]

Early indications for Korea are that the Red Bulls are 3 tenths faster than the Ferrari's, and 4 tenths faster than the McLarens.



Nice.

[Kaido]

Early indications for Korea are that the Red Bulls are 3 tenths faster than the Ferrari's, and 4 tenths faster than the McLarens.



Nice.

doesn't look like that from FP1 and 2 so far.

RBR looks like they have the qualifying pace , but other teams seem to have alot better race pace

[TJ]

Lewis was p1 in fp1 on 23 lap old tyres. Fp2 was race runs..

[Brockas]

Vettel 0.5 seconds faster than the field on tyres that are 3-4 laps old. Game on khunts.

Hamilton looks like the best of the rest, however Webber didn't get to put a time in due to an engine problem.

[Brockas]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/103355

Will FI make it to the grid next year? If Vijay goes down they may not...

[Adr3naL1N]

Vettel 0.5 seconds faster than the field on tyres that are 3-4 laps old. Game on khunts.

Hamilton looks like the best of the rest, however Webber didn't get to put a time in due to an engine problem.

was wondering about this just pulled the fp3 results up and notcied he only put in 7 laps, i was thinking something must of been wrong. Do you know what the issue was? i hope they get it sorted before quali!!

otherwise seems like a rbr dominated weekend!

[satch]

Mallya will not get arrested, however he has been in serious financial strife for the last few months now. You might remember he sold part of the team to his competitior Sahara (another airline) some months back.

[TJ]

He owns 42.5 % so no one can take the team, only his share.

[Brockas]

TJ and Jazza were shitting bricks I'm guessing. Pity Senna is a chump.

[TJ]

LOLLLLLLL Button

[Buckets]

LOLLLLLLL Button

Yeh because Hamilton wasn't lucky to make Q2 @ all.
I wouldn't be surprised to see him in the top 10 after a few penalties get handed to people who ignored the yellow's.

[Adr3naL1N]

YES!!!!!!!!!

[Frenchy]

Nice work webber!!!!

[Autopilot]

Go Wibbah

[Brockas]

YESSSSSSSSSSSS

[bjohnson]

Vettel's radio..

He mad!!

[bjohnson]

I can't imagine that RBR will be super happy with Webber starting P1 and Vettel P2.
If Mark can stay in front of Vettel during the race it will be interesting to see how they handle it.

I know they say their drivers are free to race but Vettel needs max points, I guess it depends what happens to Alonso.

[Adr3naL1N]

im nervous about webber even getting vettel off the line even with webber ahead, his starts are still useless, kobi got him last week

[beatle]

not as good as Grosjean got him though...

[NoOg_sTaR]

I'm soooooooo happy Webber got pole!

[TJ]

Great lap by Mark

Keen to see Alonso into the back of Vettel into T1.

[fourseven]

Has Alonso ever driven into the back of anyone? Keen for Vettel and Hamilton clash at turn 1.

[TJ]

Has Alonso ever driven into the back of anyone? Keen for Vettel and Hamilton clash at turn 1.

To be fair on Fred, no he is very clean. Grosjean is 7th, probably close enough?

[TJ]

LOL at this piece of Radio comms -

Wookie: Why did you not tell me about Massa?
Engineer: What was I supposed to say?

LOLLLLL

[Jazza]

He was having a massive sad. Typical spoilt brat Vettel crap!

[Kaido]

fuck i hope Webber doesn't move over for Vettel!

[Wrexter]

http://www.formula1.com/wi/enlarge/1000x800/popup/sutton/2012/d12kor1004.jpg

[Autopilot]

http://wtf1.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/DrunkPressConference.jpg

http://cliptheapex.com/community/attachments/gapthatexists-jpg.1749/

http://www.formulaf1.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/how-tall-is-takuma-sato.jpg

http://fotos.subefotos.com/3206c4511c9d9a45a674874890e3b2d5o.png

http://cliptheapex.com/community/attachments/black-flag-2011-06-08-parking-for-winners-jpg.3189/

http://cliptheapex.com/community/attachments/fernando1-jpg.2793/
http://cliptheapex.com/community/attachments/fernando2-jpg.2794/
Fernando is faster than you.

[Brockas]

He was having a massive sad. Typical spoilt brat Vettel crap!
LOL that's rich coming from a Hamilton fan.

Read the autosport article, Vettel didn't blame Massa at all, he was just annoyed that Rocky didn't tell him that he was going to catch traffic in front of him at that pace.

How is that spoilt brat crap? I'd be annoyed too.

[Skitzo]

Yeah, cause you're a spoilt brat.

[Jazza]

I guess you missed him having a go at Rocky on the radio? Hamilton often asks what happened etc but never blames his team, esp not over losing pole to his teammate! Vettel knows he was a cvnt its why in his interviews he's backpedaling so hard saying its his fault, even he knows he was a douche bag!
P.s. he also knew he was too slow to beat Webber through the first two sectors anyway

[Frenchy]

Ricciardo with gearbox penalty.
Probably a given after qual yesterday, but still :(

[mehow2g]

Anyone got a stream friend from overseas wants to watch?

[Frenchy]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/A5JCogpCAAEyFwB.jpg:large

Oh god.....

[Kaido]

Anyone got a stream friend from overseas wants to watch?

www.vipbox.tv quality isn't the best but i found it doesn't lag for me

[Adr3naL1N]

I hope they dont miss the start of the race because of the fkn moto gp!, no pre race at all on one, better load up a stream now to watch a bit of pre race stuff

[TJ]

been watching sky since 12.30. Good pre race.

[Brockas]

I guess you missed him having a go at Rocky on the radio? Hamilton often asks what happened etc but never blames his team
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

You're SO one eyed.


I heard Vettel's radio.. He said "why didn't you tell me about Massa"... At least he didn't post his teams telemetry to try to explain why he was slower than his team mate.

[fourseven]

LOL at Hamilton never blaming his team.

I love you Jazza but you know that's rubbish xox

[Frenchy]

Nice start to the race!

[fourseven]

Beautiful start by Alonso, Massa's going to get Lewis too. Pole starting position should be on the other side of the track.

[Adr3naL1N]

ffs webber!

but yes i hope they change pole position to the other side of the track next year

[Frenchy]

Keen to see if webber can keep the gap close, and if RB will allow him to under cut on a one stop

Edit - well 2 stop it is then...

[masTers]

Poor JB!

[MGR]

DR up 12 spots and still going faster than the 4 cars immediately in front of him (including Hamilton).

[Adr3naL1N]

great for DR, absolutely showing up his teammate, lets just hope it continues!!

alonso gaining on webber fast! why is webber so sloow!!!

[Frenchy]

Haha now webber is smashing lap times

[mehow2g]

GO DAN! HES GONNA GET HAM!

[fourseven]

Hamilton's car is fucked. Retirement time?

[Alt_F4]

LOL @ Ferrari team orders, not very subtle

[fourseven]

They'd be crazy not to keep Massa behind.

[mehow2g]

Bad Luck to Massa if it was one of the first races of the season he'd be an ok chance.

[KAL SPL]

DR up to 8th that's awesome !

[Adr3naL1N]

nearly lost it DR!!

come on! hope he can hold 8th!! will jump the frog in points finally!

[mehow2g]

oh god..

[Autopilot]

Hahaha Lewis!

[MGR]

LOL at hamiltons new aero package

[Adr3naL1N]

fml @ riccairdo. that run off has cost him 2 points and the lead on vergne. now his gonna fall further behind :( overall though i guess his done well to come from 21st.

LOL at lewis!

[Autopilot]

psy waving the flag WTF?

[mehow2g]

DR doing very well.