buying a house thread v561561

[Fukushima]

Hi kents,

Once again I turn to the collective wisdom of a hoon forum, specifically after property values but if anyone wants to chime in with any general advice I'm keen to hear it.

I'm pretty keen on a townhouse in East Freo that a colleague is selling. It ticks all the boxes and is pretty much the best we've seen in the price range for the area.

But it isn't listed with an agent yet, and they've said "make an offer". So my main drama is trying to work out what to offer. They've hinted that we can low ball a little bit as it'll save them agents fees and a quick sale is a good as they've already moved.

I know some people have access to historical property values and have offered to look them up for others in the past - but I couldn't find the threads where you did. If you are willing to help me out via PM that would be great.

[stumps.]

You need someone to look on RP data, i just purchased a house last week and got it for $70k cheaper than the owner paid 2 years ago excluding interest and stampduty. So we actually got a very good deal. Start LOW and work your way up.

[180SXTCY]

Shannon my sister works for land corp so might be able to get you the sales history or something?

Pm me if interested.

[AGIT8D]

email me: daniel@newglen.com I'll run it through RPdata and screen print you back all the info. Tomorrow.

[cplagz]

Ask Landgate for a 12month sales data report. I can run one for you but they cost monies.

As a developer there a a few main things we look at in regards to value.

Location, site area, zoning, built form and anything thats "extra" ie, laneway access. Then compare across 12months worth of sales data to find the closest property similarities and work it out from there.
I can lend a bit of a hand if you want to PM me address.

[Fukushima]

Ask Landgate for a 12month sales data report. I can run one for you but they cost monies.

How much monies for a report and what do you get out of it?

[RGVFAST]

www.oldlistings.com.au has some sales history for free. The downside is it that it only lists advertised prices, not what the property sold for.

Still, it's a good tool to start with.

[Lump]

realestate.com has a sold price search catergory which can be good. also search what similar properties are on the market for.

if its not green title, find out what strata fees will be need to be payable, some of those can easily be thousands of $ a year.

[Lmx]

realestate.com has a sold price search catergory which can be good. also search what similar properties are on the market for.

if its not green title, find out what strata fees will be need to be payable, some of those can easily be thousands of $ a year.
Really? have i got a setting or something wrong, that whenever i look at the sold pricings they are just P.O.A and don't even state what the asking was?
and as far as strata fees goes, i was told that these are just offset by you not needing building insurance as it's covered in the strata fees (no idea on costs of either)

[Lump]

not all of them are shown, but some are, its free so worth a look.

strata fees are not building insurance, two totally different things. im not all that clued up on strata titles, i have green title, the best way to go if you can.



another thing the op could try is get reports from local estate agents for free on the pretense they are looking to buy in the area.

[Fukushima]

I live in a block of three at the moment

my current strata fees cover building insurance (joint policy all three houses), water for the front lawn, and maintenace of the automatic gate

all stuff you usually have to pay, but they used to hire gardner and waste money on other stuff so I can see how it could get out of hand if the wrong person is in charge

[AGIT8D]

I've emailed you back Shannon.

[andrewp]

I'm an agent and can give you sales history of the local area if you want. PM me the address and your email address and I'll send you a report

[Fukushima]

Ok. I know what they paid in 2008 and we're pre approved and ready to make them a SilWA approved low ball offer. Do I just download an offer and acceptance form and give it to them to see what they come back with or should I contact a settlement agent first?

What are the usual conditions...?
Finance approval satisfactory to the buyer
Building inspection satisfactory to buyer
Pest inspection satisfactory to buyer
Outstanding rates and bills paid by seller?

[RGVFAST]

Be careful with the wording. Might be a good idea for a laywer to have a quick look over it before any one signs.

[Macca]

They take meth labs as payments....

[Lmx]

Rather then setup a new thread, can anyone direct me to a page, that will state the rules of first home owners grant, in terms of if the house is currently being rented, and you say extend the persons lease. The time before you have to move in to avoid paying it back/fees (i believe its 11 months?) but also when the 11 months starts ie, at settlement, approval of FHOG etc.
google fails me after reading through a heap of conditions on gaining the FHOG..

[Macca]

you must reside within the 1st 12 months of property settlement. or 12 months of property completion

[Dom]

We are buying through a private sale and to make things easier we aer using a buying agent just to cover all the things that we don't know about or could miss. Not sure if its your first place but the government givea an extra $2000 on top of the FHOG if you use a registered agent hence all costs are covered.

[Fukushima]

Yeah cool Dom who are you using?

I was thinking of just hitting up a settlement agent on monday, then dropping them off a lowball as a formal offer taking off on holidays to give them 2 weeks to think about it

[Lump]

good luck dude, great area.

[andrewp]

Ok. I know what they paid in 2008 and we're pre approved and ready to make them a SilWA approved low ball offer. Do I just download an offer and acceptance form and give it to them to see what they come back with or should I contact a settlement agent first?

What are the usual conditions...?
Finance approval satisfactory to the buyer
Building inspection satisfactory to buyer
Pest inspection satisfactory to buyer
Outstanding rates and bills paid by seller?

If you're gonna low ball em might as well make the conditions in your favour.. the way you've put it there is the go, just leave it general and say 'to the satisfaction of the buyer' that way if you want out it's easy to do so..

If it's listed with an agent they'll want to sit with you and write the offer, using proper forms for the conditions etc...

[Dom]

I am buying out in beckenham so i dont know if it would be any help but in saying that i used chris daniels from Team spicy.

I worked out really well to be honest they were selling a friends house and they had originally had the contract to sell the house so they had delt with the lady before. She was a nutter a few questions about the place and seh sammed the door in our face.

Good LUCK :)

[AGIT8D]

Have you got a settlement agent?

I recommend Courtenay Burn
94011211
0413272032
www.burnprofessional.com

We recommend her to our clients as well, she does great work and always keeps everyone in the loop.

[stumps.]

Rather then setup a new thread, can anyone direct me to a page, that will state the rules of first home owners grant, in terms of if the house is currently being rented, and you say extend the persons lease. The time before you have to move in to avoid paying it back/fees (i believe its 11 months?) but also when the 11 months starts ie, at settlement, approval of FHOG etc.
google fails me after reading through a heap of conditions on gaining the FHOG..


you must reside within the 1st 12 months of property settlement. or 12 months of property completion

I am in this circumstance at the moment, you have to live in the house for 6 months minimum of the first 12 to be eligable

[Fukushima]

Went to vicki fillipof in west perth this morning purely based on professional website information and tracking, sms alerts etc etc

Got them to help my write the offer And conditions, no obligation to use them yet.

Pretty much same as I said above but Added a comdition that we need to be satisfied with information about the water corp easement that came up on title

[Simon]

A little off topic, But is anyone here a (or know a) Licensed Land Surveyor?

I'm going to build a brick front/side fence, before i can lodge an application for a building license i need to have the block surveyed.

Any other ways around that too?
Not too keen on paying $750 for some bloke with a tape measure.

[Fukushima]

Got a counter offer emailed to us in a pdf on tuesday

To paraphrase they've said 'local agents' think its worth the asking price in the current market and they are only prepared to knock off 10k they are saving on agents fees. This brings the price down to what they paid for it in early 2008.

Then they ask us to sign right away because they want to get a move on.

Now what I've read is that house prices for east fremantle / fremantle are down 5% for the past year, average time on the market is near 175 days, average discounting by vendors is 10% which is pretty much on par the offer we made

I'm not convinced prices have recovered to 2008 levels anyway, and from what my family have heard the local market is slow and their agent doesn't think they should advertise my grandads deceased estate until early next year.

On top of all of that a smaller place down the road dropped their price from 620 to 560 4 months ago and is still for sale.
Should I just email back and tell them if they want a quick sale with us they need to drop the price?
Or should I Play hard ball, include some of the above facts and say if they want to prove otherwise they should advertise with an agent...


Or has the market/prices picked up just recently and places are actually selling at 2008 prices?

[Jiblet]

The market hasn't picked up and it's supposed to be a "buyer's market". But it all depends on what the seller is willing to let their property go at.

If your not prepared to pay their counter offer, tell them no thanks and good luck with the sale. Or you can counter their counter with a similar price to your first offer.
There are plenty of other properties out there and you might find they will call back when they don't get any other offers.

If it were me, i wouldn't tell them squat about the research you have done and just continue to use that method when looking for other properties. Real estate agents these days know that the buyers are more savvy now and expect it. They would have told the sellers not to cave as they can get close to what they want.

But in the long run, that extra $20k or so doesn't make a huge difference (maybe $200 a month extra) when your paying it off over 25-30 years.

[cplagz]

Went to vicki fillipof in west perth this morning purely based on professional website information and tracking, sms alerts etc etc

Got them to help my write the offer And conditions, no obligation to use them yet.

Pretty much same as I said above but Added a comdition that we need to be satisfied with information about the water corp easement that came up on title

The watercorp easement will just be for access to the sewer/mains line that must run under the property. It's a pretty normal thing - I've looked at a lot of properties lately that have had them because they are on the older blocks.

[cplagz]

Got a counter offer emailed to us in a pdf on tuesday

To paraphrase they've said 'local agents' think its worth the asking price in the current market and they are only prepared to knock off 10k they are saving on agents fees. This brings the price down to what they paid for it in early 2008.

Then they ask us to sign right away because they want to get a move on.

Now what I've read is that house prices for east fremantle / fremantle are down 5% for the past year, average time on the market is near 175 days, average discounting by vendors is 10% which is pretty much on par the offer we made

I'm not convinced prices have recovered to 2008 levels anyway, and from what my family have heard the local market is slow and their agent doesn't think they should advertise my grandads deceased estate until early next year.

On top of all of that a smaller place down the road dropped their price from 620 to 560 4 months ago and is still for sale.
Should I just email back and tell them if they want a quick sale with us they need to drop the price?
Or should I Play hard ball, include some of the above facts and say if they want to prove otherwise they should advertise with an agent...


Or has the market/prices picked up just recently and places are actually selling at 2008 prices?

Agent fees will be 2-3% so it will be more then 10k they are saving I'd say.

Play hardball and just counter offer back at your original offer :) I bid on a place at auction over 4 months ago and the agent has pestered me 4 times since I wrote up our original offer (highest bid at auction bar vendor bids) and they still haven't sold the place. They had an offer 30-50k more then mine and it's fallen over again because it's a "subject sale".

Don't pay more then the place is worth just because you like it. It's worth what the market dictates and vendors need to remove their heads from their arses if they expect to get any more then that. I can see why they will only drop 10k - they don't want to take a bath on the property, but it's their fault for paying premium prices and not being able to afford it anymore.

[cplagz]

Oh and I can pull that landgate report still if you want it dude - I'd lost my password and only just got a new one yesterday. Just email me if you do.

[Fukushima]

The watercorp easement will just be for access to the sewer/mains line that must run under the property. It's a pretty normal thing - I've looked at a lot of properties lately that have had them because they are on the older blocks.

Yeah we've got one at our current place. No huge deal except one time TJs mates rocked up, dug in our garden bed for a manhole and spent the afternoon down there.

I'd just like to know where it is.

[cplagz]

Yeah we've got one at our current place. No huge deal except one time TJs mates rocked up, dug in our garden bed for a manhole and spent the afternoon down there.

I'd just like to know where it is.

It should be on the certificate of title - otherwise have a look at this website
https://www2.landgate.wa.gov.au/bmvf/app/waatlas/

It will show where the mains and sewer lines enter the property to give a rough idea.

One thing to check also is if the house has 2x RCDs fitted - as it's legislation for sales if you intend to occupy. See www.energysafety.wa.gov.au

[Simon]

It should be on the certificate of title - otherwise have a look at this website
https://www2.landgate.wa.gov.au/bmvf/app/waatlas/

It will show where the mains and sewer lines enter the property to give a rough idea.

One thing to check also is if the house has 2x RCDs fitted - as it's legislation for sales if you intend to occupy. See www.energysafety.wa.gov.au

+ Hardwired smoke alarms

[cplagz]

+ Hardwired smoke alarms

I believe that's only if you intend to rent? I may be wrong though.

[Simon]

99% sure it's a prerequisite for any property being sold regardless of intended use.

I'll check up on it now.

[Simon]

Stolen off FESA website:

Mains powered smoke alarms within existing properties

From 1 October 2009 mains powered smoke alarms must be fitted in all existing residential buildings prior to sale and when a new tenancy agreement is signed for rental properties. If there are no tenancy changes in residential properties, then mains powered smoke alarms must be fitted by 1 October 2011.

These requirements are mandatory under the Local Government (Miscellaneous provisions) Act 1960 section 248 and the Local Government Act 1995 section 9.60, and the Building Amendments Regulations 2009.

While mains powered smoke alarms are the preferred alternative, smoke alarms with a non-removable ten year battery life are permitted in dwellings where the construction of the building does not permit a space to conceal the wiring and there is no other suitable alternative location or where mains power supply is not available.

All elements of the smoke alarm program are consistent with the Australasian Fire and Emergency Service Authorities Council (AFAC) guidelines and installation will be required to meet BCA requirements.

The development of these regulations has involved extensive consultation with key stakeholders including Local Government, Western Australian Local Government Association (WALGA), Real Estate Institute of Western Australia (REIWA), Department of Commerce (Consumer Protection - Tenancies) and the WA Division of National Electrical Communications Association (NECA). These regulations will form part of each of local government's building law.

While it is anticipated the regulations will be self policing, local government are a key element of the compliance regime and will have the capacity to issue infringement notices or fines up to $5,000 for non- compliance.

[cplagz]

Homes for Sale from 1st October 2009

Vendors must ensure that hard-wired smoke alarms are installed by a qualified electrical contractor prior to the transfer of the property to the new owner. In the circumstances where the vendor fails to do so the new owner must install the compliant smoke alarms and may recover the cost in court.

(Penalty for non compliance $5000)


Rental properties from 1st October 2009

Landlords must ensure that hard-wired smoke alarms are installed by a qualified electrical contractor prior to the commencement of a new lease and must also ensure that the smoke alarms are maintained and be in working order at all times. Dwellings being made available for hire must also have hard-wired smoke alarms installed. Please Note! (The owner has 14 days after the new tenant takes over the dwelling to fit the smoke alarms.)

(Penalty for non compliance $5000)

[cplagz]

hahah... what he said :p

Unless you are demolishing the house - you just sign a letter stating it will be demolished within 6 months of purchase and give that to the vendors to negate any liability on their behalf.

[Fukushima]

Correct me if I'm wrong but is that something a settlement agent needs to check? Or is it like the car immobilisor rule and noone really enforces it.

It's 10 years old, reasonably sure it'll have RCDs and hard wired smoke alarms but that can be final inspection stuff.

At the moment there is a 60k gap between their offer and my offer so we are a long way from that stage!

[Simon]

LOL +rep for same post same time and good info! :D

[Simon]

Correct me if I'm wrong but is that something a settlement agent needs to check? Or is it like the car immobilisor rule and noone really enforces it.

It's 10 years old, reasonably sure it'll have RCDs and hard wired smoke alarms but that can be final inspection stuff.

At the moment there is a 60k gap between their offer and my offer so we are a long way from that stage!

Correct, the Settlement agent is required to confirm or altleast notify you of the RCD/Smoke alarm legislation, During the early stages of settlement you will be required to sign a document of acknowledgement regarding the two.

You can call the estate agent and ask him to confirm the requirements, He/She will contact the owner and ask them to provide proof in installation.

FYI i would confirm it's installation before anything else goes ahead with settlement. From memory, i paid out around a grand to have them installed in my old investment property. That was a cashie through a mate though.

[Lump]

Correct me if I'm wrong but is that something a settlement agent needs to check? Or is it like the car immobilisor rule and noone really enforces it.

It's 10 years old, reasonably sure it'll have RCDs and hard wired smoke alarms but that can be final inspection stuff.

At the moment there is a 60k gap between their offer and my offer so we are a long way from that stage!
the seller has to sign a bit of paper stating the rcd's, hardwired smoke alarms & other things are to current standards/approved.
if this is not done you cant go to settlement.
'10' yrs old is right on the limit - i think they were made law for new houses is 2001

sounds like you need to agree on a price first tho :P

[AGIT8D]

Play some Benry hard ball, go back at your current offer or make them sweat. You have plenty of wild cards in your hand telling you why you shouldn't overpay for the house just because it is in a nice area etc.

I personally think its a great house, but it is a buyers market. Why are the owners selling up? They have tried to place some urgency on the sale, and I think they are hoping they might have caught someone off guard who has money to spend and won't bother doing the research. Which probably means they know they want to upgrade/get out now and might have to wear a small loss to do so, and are trying to minimise that. Agree with Marc re: agent fees, way over 10k unless they've cut another deal somewhere, in which case they should've taken it to maximise exposure on the property.

So I reiterate, flick them back the same offer, or add on a dollar and put a troll face as your signature. And definitely let them sweat on it, you'd be surprised the amount of times all lines will be silenced and then the offer is accepted haha.

[stumps.]

Agreed with Dan above, my seller was going I wont go any lower than x said it multiple times. We got within 7k of each other and I told the agent he knows my number. Next day he rang. We got 30 k off the asking price and 60k off his buying price.

Play them hard, they are just trying to get you to crumble to bigger agent commissions

[AGIT8D]

Agreed with Dan above, my seller was going i wont go any lower than x said ti multiple times. We got within 7k of each other and i told the agent he knows my number. Next day he rang. We got 30 k off the asking price and 60k off his buying price.

Play them hard, they are just trying to get you to crumble

And don't get too attached to the house, you may lose a couple finding the sweet spot. For every house you miss there's another 10 beauties that will become available.

[Joe]

the seller has to sign a bit of paper stating the rcd's, hardwired smoke alarms & other things are to current standards/approved.
if this is not done you cant go to settlement.

Didn't happen with our purchase... didn't even come up in the settlement, and I don't care either way because I'm planning on hiring someone to drive a front end loader through it.

That being said, the house does have hard wired detectors.. but yeah, nothing was ever mentioned by the settlement agent.

[esky]

Got a counter offer emailed to us in a pdf on tuesday

To paraphrase they've said 'local agents' think its worth the asking price in the current market and they are only prepared to knock off 10k they are saving on agents fees. This brings the price down to what they paid for it in early 2008.

Then they ask us to sign right away because they want to get a move on.

Now what I've read is that house prices for east fremantle / fremantle are down 5% for the past year, average time on the market is near 175 days, average discounting by vendors is 10% which is pretty much on par the offer we made

I'm not convinced prices have recovered to 2008 levels anyway, and from what my family have heard the local market is slow and their agent doesn't think they should advertise my grandads deceased estate until early next year.

On top of all of that a smaller place down the road dropped their price from 620 to 560 4 months ago and is still for sale.
Should I just email back and tell them if they want a quick sale with us they need to drop the price?
Or should I Play hard ball, include some of the above facts and say if they want to prove otherwise they should advertise with an agent...


Or has the market/prices picked up just recently and places are actually selling at 2008 prices?

the market is shit.

counter offer even lower.

[cplagz]

Didn't happen with our purchase... didn't even come up in the settlement, and I don't care either way because I'm planning on hiring someone to drive a front end loader through it.

That being said, the house does have hard wired detectors.. but yeah, nothing was ever mentioned by the settlement agent.

WHS. Our settlement agent has never mentioned it - caveat emptor

It's not the settlement agents job to do it for you. Due diligence is up to the purchaser.

As Dan said and I showed you in my emails - it's definitely a buyers market unless emotions get involved.

[Lump]

yeah our settlement agent never mentioned it either - its in the standard reiwa sale of land or strata title by offer & acceptance contract.

"the seller warrants that upon settlement, the property shall be compliant with state laws in regard to the installation of RCD's and hard wired smoke alarms"

[cplagz]

yeah our settlement agent never mentioned it either - its in the standard reiwa sale of land or strata title by offer & acceptance contract.

"the seller warrants that upon settlement, the property shall be compliant with state laws in regard to the installation of RCD's and hard wired smoke alarms"

Yeah JFGC has that and that's why you can be reimbursement from the seller. It still has nothing to do with the settlement agent.

[Lump]

yeah, i know - i never mentioned the agent either.