World War II: The Holocaust [TheAtlantic]

[duste]

No words to describe these photos, just...yeah.

http://www.theatlantic.com/infocus/2011/10/world-war-ii-the-holocaust/100170/

[peter_piper]

Just incredible.

[Skitzo]

Shit's depressing :(

[Tre-Cool]

I remember seeing a video of people walking into a large ditch in an orderly line before turning around (back against firing squad) and being shot.

So personally, i give no sympathy. If your not willing to fight to the very end for your own life then what chance do you have. None just like the fool's in my first sentance.

Go out on your own terms, not some other pingpingpingpings.

[SSICK]

pull your head in Dave.

[shifted]

Having been to Auschwitz Concentration Camp on a family holiday to Poland a couple years back - I'd recommend anyone to go and check it out. Just can't describe the feeling really. They have a house for each place of origin for "residents" there. One for Hungary, one for Poland etc. and as you walk through you see dates, books full of names of those detained/executed, the firing squad, the cremation/gassing chambers etc. crazy shit. Hearing stories from family who survived the war was something else too.

You see the mass pile of hair, of shoes... it's pretty fucked.

@Tre-Cool, I'd like to think I would fight back too and at least take one fuckwit with me on my way out if I was going to go anyway - but reality is until you are in the situation you just don't know. Millions were killed...

Interesting photos, going through them now - good post OP!

[Mad_Aussie]

I remember seeing a video of people walking into a large ditch in an orderly line before turning around (back against firing squad) and being shot.

So personally, i give no sympathy. If your not willing to fight to the very end for your own life then what chance do you have. None just like the fool's in my first sentance.

Go out on your own terms, not some other pingpingpingpings.

Most retarded fucking post of the year award.


Extremely sad photos, closed them down only after a few.
So fucking horrible, and it's still happening now.

[magic1]

these images should never be forgotton

[urabus]

If you are ever in Washington DC the holocaust museum is truly amazing. It is free to enter but you need a ticket so go there first thing in the morning, get a ticket and come back later in the day. They have piles of things like nail clippers and shoes etc which just puts it into perspective.

The other thing that so many people forget is the number of people that died after liberation from overeating. I cant remember the percentages but it was massive.

Brendon

[Tre-Cool]

@Tre-Cool, I'd like to think I would fight back too and at least take one fuckwit with me on my way out if I was going to go anyway - but reality is until you are in the situation you just don't know. Millions were killed...

Interesting photos, going through them now - good post OP!

That's the thing, if you know your going to die, more to the point be murdered. why the fuck would you not a) atleast try and run or b) try and take one the people with the guns out with you.

Basic human instinct is Fight or Flight, they did neither.

[Mad_Aussie]

That's the thing, if you know your going to die, more to the point be murdered. why the fuck would you not a) atleast try and run or b) try and take one the people with the guns out with you.

Basic human instinct is Fight or Flight, they did neither.

Spend months being starved in a work camp, until you have zero muscle tone left and barely enough energy to lift your arms. Oh, and have your partner, your parents and your children murdered weeks before hand in front of you, just to keep your spirits up. Then see how you'd fare against a dozen Gestapo holding mp44's.

[TJ]

My Grandad spent 4 years in a camp after being captured whilst defending Serbia against the Nazi's and Croatians that had sided with them.

He was however, designated worthy of life. I never got to meet the man, but from the accounts I have read he was never the same after returning home at the end of the war.

The grim reality is that he got off much much lighter than some of these people. Dave it easy to say that 70 years later without a real assessment of how things happened in Europe during WW2.

[shifted]

That's the thing, if you know your going to die, more to the point be murdered. why the fuck would you not a) atleast try and run or b) try and take one the people with the guns out with you.

Basic human instinct is Fight or Flight, they did neither.

In the camps, you couldn't. Electric fences and more or less, being shot before you even reach them make that very difficult.

Out in the field you are facing a number of troops with weapons, possibly hundreds of troops - yeah you may get lucky to hit one before the rest shoot you or even luckier to take one out if you get his gun/a group of people think alike and attack a couple troops together - but still, can't judge it without being there yourself...

Read some accounts of people who were there/survived - they speak of the malnutrition, the weakness...people dropping dead in the spot due to disease, starvation...

Poland was a mixture - some people harboured individuals and helped them out, some gave them up to protect themselves, some escaped by changing names and jumping ships, some led rebellious groups (particularly in Warsaw) etc. IIRC even Britain deported 2 Jews from Poland who were within their borders at Germany's request... My uncle survived by hiding in the shit chambers (and he was admitted in early 1940 from memory) and then became a cook for the SS from what I was told. Another survived as well though he was on the Russian fields...

Either way - don't judge the situation too quickly - shit is devastating either way! And the uncle that is still alive sits there everyday counting his blessings that he returned home and had a family after the war considering so many people couldn't including members of his family, and his friends.

[Tre-Cool]

Again you have missed my point. I wouldn't be waiting months. Kill or be captured would be my motto.

Also interesting to note in a lot of pictures of people being walked to camps, you have say 50-60 people being escorted by 10-15 soldiers.

As The Doors song goes, "you have the guns, we have the numbers".

as an fyi, my comments aren't in direct relation to the original link. just my thoughts on some the video's i have seem in regards to the whole nazi germany, ww2 era.

I also don't agree with the policies the ze germans had either but even england was in a piss weak militrary state at the time. (of which my ancenstry comes from).

[Buckets]

CSB.
http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/18371_294009597290_594167290_3522646_6002873_n.jpg

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/18371_294009602290_594167290_3522647_3298454_n.jpg

I visited 2 camps last year in the dead of the northern winter. It was freezing and bleak. I stood in a gas chamber for a few minutes and visited the rooms where the ovens were while touring one of the smaller less known camps, I'm not an emotional person but it made me feel sick. I don't blame people for deciding to go out with out a fight from what little I saw life was hell people were flogged until the last fiber of their being had been broken. Tre-Cool I don't know you but saying you have no sympathy for people in that situation is a bit off mate. Go there if you haven't, stand in a chamber for a minute or two, see what the living conditions were, think what it would have been like to be them and see if you'd still want to fight.

[Joe]

As everyone knows, I like to joke about the Jews.. but people need to realise that this is purely based on my humurous day to day dealings with them (as I live amongst them).

What happened to these peoples relatives during WWII is a completely different matter, and I don't believe race or religion should even be considered when it comes to attempting to assess what happened during WWII..

I can't even fathom the words to describe how I feel about seeing these photos. It's an atrocity, but even thats too soft a word to describe it.

It is a blight on the face and history of mankind, and I hope that no one EVER forgets this, even in thousands of years.

The worst thing of all though, is this act of genocide isn't limited to WWII Europe.. it happened in Yugoslavia and Rwanda, and is still happening in Cambodia.

[kurbn]

the factory for medical experiments was more disturbing I found. Injecting people with flesh eating diseases, having people hung on hooks for someone to come along "for fun" and torture them, cut out there insides and just leave them there to hang and die in pain. Plus keeping humans in small cages, impregnating woman only for them to give birth and the babys mutilated and killed in front of the mother. Shits out of hand. There is a detailed doco on youtube somewhere about it

[TJ]

Again you have missed my point. I wouldn't be waiting months. Kill or be captured would be my motto.

Also interesting to note in a lot of pictures of people being walked to camps, you have say 50-60 people being escorted by 10-15 soldiers.

As The Doors song goes, "you have the guns, we have the numbers".

as an fyi, my comments aren't in direct relation to the original link. just my thoughts on some the video's i have seem in regards to the whole nazi germany, ww2 era.


Like I said, you need to revisit the entire history to understand. No one knew what was happening. They were told "you are being moved out for your own safety" etc etc, then carted off. By the time they got to where they were going, it was too late.

[shifted]

Again you have missed my point. I wouldn't be waiting months. Kill or be captured would be my motto.

Also interesting to note in a lot of pictures of people being walked to camps, you have say 50-60 people being escorted by 10-15 soldiers.

As The Doors song goes, "you have the guns, we have the numbers".

as an fyi, my comments aren't in direct relation to the original link. just my thoughts on some the video's i have seem in regards to the whole nazi germany, ww2 era.

I understand your point, but do you realise that the majority of the people at the start were conned before they even realised what was happening? They were led into chambers for a "shower" and only once the gas was dropped in they knew they were going to die? Women, children were in there....

One girl's account of surviving was she jumped into the sea of bodies in the massive ditch where they were being shot one by one and the SS troops couldn't identify who was who, so she laid still for hours and when it was all over she jumped back out and ran for it.

There were stories of people fighting back, and they didn't do much or didn't last long before being put down like wounded animals....

All I am saying is, until you are in the situation yourself - you can't really know what you would do. There would have been the people that did what you said you would do but end of the day - how is anyone going to ever know unless people lived to tell the tale...

In some accounts people speak of the mental anguish and insanity some suffered. Going to bed one night knowing the friend next to them wouldn't make it through and waking up next to that friend dead etc. it breaks people down to the point they can't fight back...

[Tre-Cool]

I can't even fathom the words to describe how I feel about seeing these photos. It's an atrocity, but even thats too soft a word to describe it.

It is a blight on the face and history of mankind, and I hope that no one EVER forgets this, even in thousands of years.

The worst thing of all though, is this act of genocide isn't limited to WWII Europe.. it happened in Yugoslavia and Rwanda, and is still happening in Cambodia.

I guess that's kinda where im coming from. Seeing pictures such as these either makes you feel sadness or anger. As i'm not one to feel sad it makes me angry that people, more so Humanity did not put up a bigger fight to stamp out such activities.

even to this day have we changed for the better? personally i don't think so.

[HANS YOLO]

terrible

terrible

terrible


alot of modern medicine and treatments were owed to Nazi doctors research...catch 22 right there!

[Tre-Cool]

alot of modern medicine and treatments were owed to Nazi doctors research...catch 22 right there!

and the japs too.

They did alot of similar medical experiments in the manchuria (sp?) regions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731


to bring up another saying. No side is ever innocent in war.

[Mad_Aussie]

The Americans did some horrible, horrible radiation experiments too. Lots of information floating around about it.
In fact a lot of the syphilis research and other disease research they did (and did up until very recently) is just mind-blowing.

[devilfish]

really sad hey, shame the Jews are now treating the Palestinians exactly the same.....

[shifted]

History only ever repeats itself when humanity can't bring itself forward...

"The future is just the past folded in on itself"

It's atrocious that acts like these still occur, let alone that there is so much poverty, genocide and immoral acts within society.

Saw the Japanese Unit 731 thing before, crazy stuff there too.

[disc0-dan]

really sad hey, shame the Jews are now treating the Palestinians exactly the same.....

WHat you said... How can the Jews be doing what they are doing to the Palestinians after experiencing similar horrific treatment during the second world war is beyond me.

[shifted]

I don't get how people say "Jews" when it is a religious belief - when did it become a race?

If I am mistaken and things have changed/I'm wrong - please correct me.

[disc0-dan]

I don't get how people say "Jews" when it is a religious belief - when did it become a race?

If I am mistaken and things have changed/I'm wrong - please correct me.

Israeli's obviously, but i generalise due to the fact the issue in the middle east has been caused by the partitianing of land and the creation of the independant state of Israel, which is majority Jewish. I just feel they should have a little more sense about them considering what has happened to their fellow believers in the past.

[Tre-Cool]

Israeli's obviously, but i generalise due to the fact the issue in the middle east has been caused by the partitianing of land and the creation of the independant state of Israel, which is majority Jewish. I just feel they should have a little more sense about them considering what has happened to their fellow believers in the past.

i think the problem here is they use the previous persecution during ww2 as an excuse to bomb and kill others.

[TJ]

Stupid posts deleted - have some fucking respect.

[Evman]

I remember seeing a video of people walking into a large ditch in an orderly line before turning around (back against firing squad) and being shot.

So personally, i give no sympathy. If your not willing to fight to the very end for your own life then what chance do you have. None just like the fool's in my first sentance.

Go out on your own terms, not some other pingpingpingpings.


That's the thing, if you know your going to die, more to the point be murdered. why the fuck would you not a) atleast try and run or b) try and take one the people with the guns out with you.

Basic human instinct is Fight or Flight, they did neither.

Well I think you should just be thankful that you've never seen your sisters and mother raped, brothers and father tortured for information then murdered, had your home and belongings either stolen or burnt, been starved nine tenths to death, worked until you're also nine tenths dead, often burying the bodies of your friends, family and countrymen in mass graves with no dignity, and a whole lot more that we can't even imagine.

I can see where you're coming from Dave but almost everyone in the world would say they'd fight to the death to protect their family, including most if not all the people captured and killed in the Holocaust. The difference is we've never had to try and make that decision from the inhumanely deprived state that these victims were in.

[Lozzle]

I visited the Dachau concentration camp earlier this year. I recognise the moat area in one of the photos from the website.

Entering the camp, even walking up to it, you're enveloped in the heaviest feeling and know your mind is about to be blown and not in a good way.

Looking through my own photos from the camp again - layout maps of the gas chambers, pictures of the ovens, the 'living' quarters, the barbed wire fences, the artefacts and memorials - have made me feel so sad for all these people and their families.

[JasonSS]

Fucking pure disgrace.

Pics like that cant even be put into words.

[ELUSIV]

That's the thing, if you know your going to die, more to the point be murdered. why the fuck would you not a) atleast try and run or b) try and take one the people with the guns out with you.

Basic human instinct is Fight or Flight, they did neither.

Actually no, there is acknowledged to be three primary functions now; Fight, Flight and Freeze. A lot of the research came out of rape cases where they found that people would often become paralayzed and dissociate mentally during periods of extreme trauma. Kind of sum's up the holocaust really. I can try and empathise with what happened to these people but no matter what I feel it would be insignificant compared to emotionally what these people went through. I dont think there is any point in saying would's, could's or should's because none of us actually know how we will react within a situation despite all the talk. The fact is they were unbelievably opressed, demoralised, traumatised and weak both physically and mentally. They may not have had the strength, physically or mentally to fight back even if they had wanted to.

Cheers to the original poster. Whilst its hard to see these things i think its important to be reminded from time to time of our history, what we are capable of and what we are moving away from as a race. It is dissapointing to know this stuff still happens today, but on a positive note its nowhere near as bad as it used to be, so we are making progression just slowly. It also makes you appreciate how good we've got it and puts our own lives and experiences into perspective.

[schnoods]

Some very powerful images there.

Coming from a German background, its still is quite hard to fathom how something like that could happen on such a large scale and how it still happens. My father was telling me how my grandmother was always telling him my grandfather was never the same after the war, felt so ashamed to be a german and had thought of migrating several times if it wasnt for the backlash that would've been encountered. He never had a direct dealing with any of the genocide (he was a "light" horseman) so he was thankful there. Even years later, my father had spent a few years in the 70's travelling the world after his national service and a short stint peace keeping in Angola, he said he never feared for his life more than when he visited Israel. He had nothing to do with what had happened but a hint of his accent was enough to spark alot of hatred.

Anyways a good movie i have watched recently that has a good insight into the camps was a movie called The Counterfeiters, basically how talented jewish artists got spared their lives in provided that they worked on forging and counterfeiting the pound and later on the US dollar to fund the german campaign.

[TheChad]

RE: Jewish race vs religion.

from what i see, having a few jewish friends, they identify as a jewish person. the younger ones often, like most of us, arent to psyched about religion. but its more about what it means to have your entire extended family persecuted and destroyed on the bounds of religion or upbringing. they are all very resilient people.

one good friend for instance, is fine with me making fun of him if he owes me money or something like that, like haha jew joke. but i know, and as a result would never, push things or genuinely say something derogatory about the holocaust etc. not that i have or would ever do anything like that. They are a very resilient people, maybe they arent a "race" per say, but the feeling of being a "jew" is stronger than being "australian" etc.


as for the rest of the world, its sad that we havent learned more from this. we are truly horrible creatures.



and seriously, tre-cool, i dont know you, but sometimes you say the most retarded stuff, its pretty sad actually. you seem genuinely well educated yet i see you spill more rubbish than diamonds.


i hope humans collectively never have to witness such a large scale disaster again, it is unlikely, as history shows, but there's hope.

[DRKWRX]

Makes you realise how lucky we have it now!

[Brett_J]

RE: Jewish race vs religion.

from what i see, having a few jewish friends, they identify as a jewish person. the younger ones often, like most of us, arent to psyched about religion. but its more about what it means to have your entire extended family persecuted and destroyed on the bounds of religion or upbringing. they are all very resilient people.

one good friend for instance, is fine with me making fun of him if he owes me money or something like that, like haha jew joke. but i know, and as a result would never, push things or genuinely say something derogatory about the holocaust etc. not that i have or would ever do anything like that. They are a very resilient people, maybe they arent a "race" per say, but the feeling of being a "jew" is stronger than being "australian" etc.


as for the rest of the world, its sad that we havent learned more from this. we are truly horrible creatures.



and seriously, tre-cool, i dont know you, but sometimes you say the most retarded stuff, its pretty sad actually. you seem genuinely well educated yet i see you spill more rubbish than diamonds.


i hope humans collectively never have to witness such a large scale disaster again, it is unlikely, as history shows, but there's hope.

Considering the flack they cop they are genuinely happy people.
I attended my daughters naming at the Shul right next to Joe's house as her mother is Jewish. Everyone there despite the fact they didn't know me, knew I wasn't Jewish or religious still treated me as if I was a family member to all of them, They never forced anything on me and we're nothing but polite and happy.
As it was also a normal "church service" as well, it was intriguing to see how this particular shul went about, each member nearly took turns singing the passages from the main scroll and even the young blokes enjoyed it.
For the way they are treated as a religious group they still cop it with a grain of salt these days.

[mr_rotary]

I suggest to watch a Polish movie called "Katyn" which is basically a movie on the Katyn massacre conducted by Russia (only came to light recently). This occured at the very beginning of the war when Germany split Poland with Russia. There is a scene at the end of the movie that goes for a good solid 20 minutes. I have never seen such a graphic portrayal of killings where they lined them up by a pit one by one. Another part they brought the Polish officers into a room one by one where they ticked off their names. They where then marched into another room where the door was quickly closed and a shot to the back of the head. The room quickly cleaned and the next marched in unsuspectingly.

Do watch the movie and then make your comments.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre

[Halle Terry]

I was seeing a Jewish South African girl when I was visiting there, and while they didn't approve of her seeing someone that wasn't Jewish they did make a sincere attempt to get along with me and let me stay with them for some time.

Humanity never ceases to amaze me, we are both capable of some of the most incredible and beautiful things yet also very capable of genuinely horrific acts.

[Georgina]

I went to birkenau and auschwitz, it's so strange being there.. It's just quiet and eery.
There's huge glass containers filled will tonnes of hair still with the hair clips, and a container of glasses.

It's definitely a place worth visiting, something you'll never forget !

In a meeting after the trip I met one of the survivors, and the stories he told were unbelievable..

[Torquen]

I went to birkenau and auschwitz, it's so strange being there.. It's just quiet and eery.
There's huge glass containers filled will tonnes of hair still with the hair clips, and a container of glasses.

It's definitely a place worth visiting, something you'll never forget !

In a meeting after the trip I met one of the survivors, and the stories he told were unbelievable..

Also done this. very very eerie places, no birds even roost in the buildings.

[TJ]

Humanity never ceases to amaze me, we are both capable of some of the most incredible and beautiful things yet also very capable of genuinely horrific acts.

Well said.

[mr top hat]

i must admit that ive made some holocaust jokes in the past and giggled at a few but i just feel terrible now i had no idea how bad it was.

[Lozzle]

Coming from a German background, its still is quite hard to fathom how something like that could happen on such a large scale and how it still happens. My father was telling me how my grandmother was always telling him my grandfather was never the same after the war, felt so ashamed to be a german and had thought of migrating several times if it wasnt for the backlash that would've been encountered. He never had a direct dealing with any of the genocide (he was a "light" horseman) so he was thankful there. Even years later, my father had spent a few years in the 70's travelling the world after his national service and a short stint peace keeping in Angola, he said he never feared for his life more than when he visited Israel. He had nothing to do with what had happened but a hint of his accent was enough to spark alot of hatred.


How saddening, I never really considered of how things would've been for people in such a position.

[Ryan1080]

Again you have missed my point. I wouldn't be waiting months. Kill or be captured would be my motto.

Also interesting to note in a lot of pictures of people being walked to camps, you have say 50-60 people being escorted by 10-15 soldiers.

As The Doors song goes, "you have the guns, we have the numbers".

as an fyi, my comments aren't in direct relation to the original link. just my thoughts on some the video's i have seem in regards to the whole nazi germany, ww2 era.

I also don't agree with the policies the ze germans had either but even england was in a piss weak militrary state at the time. (of which my ancenstry comes from).

I've been to Auschwitz few years ago, learnt a lot. People were brought there under belief that these were just labour camps, and they'd be released eventually. They were never told that this will be the end of the road, they were given hope. There was even a big fucking sign above the gates that said "work will set you free'. Ask yourself, if you were jailed for X amount of years, would you wait it out, or would you "fight or flight" knowing (albeit falsely in their case) that you will be released eventually. Having a diet of stale bread and water, and working hard, takes a toll on your body. Look at those pictures, by the time they found out that they'll die, they were in no condition to fight back.

[Tre-Cool]

Whilst its hard to see these things i think its important to be reminded from time to time of our history, what we are capable of and what we are moving away from as a race. It is dissapointing to know this stuff still happens today, but on a positive note its nowhere near as bad as it used to be, so we are making progression just slowly. It also makes you appreciate how good we've got it and puts our own lives and experiences into perspective.

the following is not directed at you elusiv, but you brought up a good discussion point.

I reakon for most of us on this forum due to our age group and current state of world politics. We Will see something like this happen again and it may affect us directly. While it might not be a raced base massacre due to the inter-breeding of humanity thanks to modern transportation but we (humanity) really haven't grown mentally/spiritually? i.e to this day what are wars fought over? resources. when one could argue the real limited resource is humans.

thanks to expansions in technology our down fall will come from polluting the earth with chemicals, manipulation of plant dna (gmo foods) etc etc humanity is on the down fall. One only has to hear about all the problems people have concieving, birth defects, kids with multiple allergies.

There are also plenty of articles/studies showing that males are dropping in testosterone levels, while women are going up. The Y chromosome itself is breaking down over each generation etc.

Human's as a species is getting weaker (geneticially speaking)

[Tre-Cool]

I've been to Auschwitz few years ago, learnt a lot. People were brought there under belief that these were just labour camps, and they'd be released eventually. They were never told that this will be the end of the road, they were given hope. There was even a big fucking sign above the gates that said "work will set you free'. Ask yourself, if you were jailed for X amount of years, would you wait it out, or would you "fight or flight" knowing (albeit falsely in their case) that you will be released eventually. Having a diet of stale bread and water, and working hard, takes a toll on your body. Look at those pictures, by the time they found out that they'll die, they were in no condition to fight back.

I guess from the past to now, it's a taught us all something, atleast for me, it's a great distrust in what i read,hear,watch. I.e how often do you read, listen or watch something on the news and go.. what a complete load of shit (i.e you believe the story is false). look what our own government has done to us with the carbon tax. Saying that their doing it to protect us all and it's for the good of the nation.

I guess what im getting at in a long winded way is, what would you do if the army, police came down your street and asked you to leave your house and they were telling you they were going to move you to a "safer" area. If it were me, i would politely decline and see what their reaction would be.

If it's a forced evacuation in a threatening manner, straight away that would ring alarm bells in my head that something legit was not going on.

[Madhav]

Kind of hard to fathom things like this occurred, that people are capable of such acts.

Even more disturbing were rulers like Mao and Starlin. Mao was supposed to be responsible for 70 million deaths in his time, and Starlin not far off. Although surprisingly you don't hear that much about this.

[schnoods]

How saddening, I never really considered of how things would've been for people in such a position.

By no means they are the vicitims, but they alot of the orders that were to be undertaken were certainly enough to scar anyone. I dont think most people ever desensitize from seeing or living those images and the ones that do are generally dont have a regard for human life.

The whole just following orders saga plays a large part in turn, Not following orders is/was basically considered treason and seeing the camps and treatment of human beings there, refusal wasnt an option.

But at the end of it all there is no excuse for it all.

[ELUSIV]

the following is not directed at you elusiv, but you brought up a good discussion point.

I reakon for most of us on this forum due to our age group and current state of world politics. We Will see something like this happen again and it may affect us directly. While it might not be a raced base massacre due to the inter-breeding of humanity thanks to modern transportation but we (humanity) really haven't grown mentally/spiritually? i.e to this day what are wars fought over? resources. when one could argue the real limited resource is humans.

thanks to expansions in technology our down fall will come from polluting the earth with chemicals, manipulation of plant dna (gmo foods) etc etc humanity is on the down fall. One only has to hear about all the problems people have concieving, birth defects, kids with multiple allergies.

There are also plenty of articles/studies showing that males are dropping in testosterone levels, while women are going up. The Y chromosome itself is breaking down over each generation etc.

Human's as a species is getting weaker (geneticially speaking)

If anyone wants to that its still happening can read up about Darfur. Thats the first that comes to mind but plenty of other examples out there that are within our generation.

Humanity isnt a limited resource though. We can reproduce as much as we like, our survival is dependent on external factors, food, water, air, etc... Whilst you are correct in that some species do not have recessive genes (e.g. aboriginal Australians) most other's do so there is unlikely to ever be any degradation within our race. In fact evolution is still taking place and is increasing somewhat with the inter-breeding between races. Only have to look at the hot eurasian birds to see that they are a clear sign of evolution :D

Havent read those studies but testosterone is only a minor factor and i wouldnt see it as being the doom and gloom of our race. If anything it will result in an asexual race at some point may be tens of thousands of years from now but who knows. I understand what you are trying to say about our the chemicals in the foods, but at the same time this is leading to an increase in reslience which is ultimately passed down genetically. Our immune system is far stronger than our ancestors and our ability to fight off the common cold is effective compared to our predecessors who would have died from it. This can also be seen in the current worry that is strains of anti-biotic resistant super flu's. Each time our bodies fight off and adapt to a contagen the result is that the contagen eventually will adapt itself and present in another form. They believe that we are becoming limited in the variety of anti-biotics we have and at some point the flu could have changed to a point that we have no effective medication against it.

As for what appears to be a greater prevalence of birth defects, the evidence doesnt support it. In fact with the advances of medical science we are reducing these on a regular basis. If you take into account underreporting and a statistically larger sample size, it would appear to some that we are having more birth defects, but in reality - per capita there seems to be a reduction. A good example of this was mandatory reporting for child abuse. When it was introduced there was a huge rise in child abuse cases...the thing was there was no actual rise in the cases, they were there to begin with but now that people were forced to report it the stats suddenly rose. The media however couldnt grasp this basic concept and reported that we are having a huge rise in child abuse which simply wasnt true. We are living longer, and retaining mental functions to a later stage in life so again that would suggest that as a species we are doing far better than what we used to. It is clear even when you compare us to aboriginal Australians, on average white males live some 15-20 years longer. Of course drugs, alcohol, lack of medical care and poor diet play a role in that but even the ones who have an affluent life still do not have the same life expectancy of a white male.

Better stop before I get some /tl dr hate :P

[1JZVL]

WW2 is one of the most disgusting events in human history (and around that period of time, Stalins rise to power in Russia etc etc).

I sure hope that nothing like this happens again.

Even now, there are still nations starving...so life hasn't really gotten any better for some. Life sure is bad and shows that we have it pretty easy here :(

[Gr3mlin]

Makes me feel rotten to know we have that kind of history.

Though saddest part was my girlfriend looked at it and didn't care much. How far can we disconnect ourselves from our past and think nothing of it.

Guess we are in that day and age where the death of hundreds and thousands is nothing more then a footnote, what kind of monsters have we become.