Do you believe in god?

[Niva]

At first glance this may seem like a shit stirring thread, but honestly as a complete and utter none believer I am genuinly interested to try and see into the mind of someone that believes in a higher power, a creator, a heaven and hell.

Personally the origional (or not so as the case may be) story that is peddled seems to be to full of contradictions and so on, but even if you look past that in my opinion the idea of a single god that created and controlls everything all just seems far to man made.

devine plan.. yet still we pray? why? to ask god to change something that isnt in the plan? just for you and your selfish needs?

the fear of hell drilled into people from an early age in the hopes of installing some sort morals into them through fear of an eternity in a godless world (not fire or eternal pain etc, even the bible doesnt actually claim that)

Be interested to see some info / clips / books from people from both sides

Personally I look up to the likes of dawkins


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[Niva]

carlin <3

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[Jiblet]

What do u believe in?
I think that those who choose to believe in god are free to do so, just dont cram it down my throat.

Evolution is logical and evident and thats what I believe. So far I have seen no evidence of a "higher power".

[dstyle]

i believe in the fact, that this thread is shit

[Niva]

your face is shit pingpingpingping. Have the balls to to pick a side in a debate that has ruined more lives than oil or stay the fuck out

[dstyle]

i am sensitive about my shit face you shit bloke.

[TheChad]

Zero + Zero = ?

How is ANYTHING possible, how did anything start?

[INSINR8R]

Yeah nah, religion is a crock of shit.

If every religion is the right one, how come there is so many?

[Skipmaster J]

god was made up imo

[JBAE]

LOL GOD! cannot stand the crap having attended catholic primary and highschools i cannot stand religion and have little tolerance for it!

However it serves a purpose at times i spose offering comfort, hope ect to people strength in some cases to push on, thats about the only good thing that comes from jeebus and his pack of gang bangn homies that i can see.

one of those cases of each to their own, but khunts that picket abortion clinics and oppose euthenasia (spelling) or intervene in other peoples lives and dictate how to live and who you can and cant fuck or marry need to be gutted whilst alive, and fucked by a non lubed camel!

It also makes me LOL how people that either have or develope mental illness gravitate to jeebus in a big way, pretty certain there is some proven link between screwy brain and religion?

[Niva]

Zero + Zero = ?

How is ANYTHING possible, how did anything start?

0

fusion power is power generated by nuclear fusion processe, google it.

again, google

[Torquen]

No, once you're dead you're dead and there was no 'god that created us/the world. In saying that if people want to believe in it then that's up to them, I couldn't care less... Just don't try and ram it down my throat.

Also that guys argument is the same for everyone of those videos, not that I'm disagreeing with him.

[JBAE]

Yeah nah, religion is a crock of shit.

If every religion is the right one, how come there is so many?

They all IMO represent the same mofo! alot of them are so similiar hold similiar days dear endorse to abuse and diddling of kiddies dooters and so on and so forth just with a slightly spin on it ect i reckon its similiar to original jap parts and china adaptations

[Mister Two]

Adults with imaginary friends...

[Yakky Bear]

i was brought up with it and do beleive.. but i wont ever push it onto someone and i respect ones decision whatever it is. it also wont change my outlook on said person.

but im still a sinning pingpingpingping :)

my question i dont have an answer to is this..

if you think hell is brought into the subject to strike fear into people.. why cause fear in the first place.. whats the reasoning to cause said fear? if they are already believers then why strike fear into them? why would you think its there to strike fear..

legit question.. im just putting them out there like all the others, just interested to see what other peoples outlook is on it by asking the above..

[TheChad]

Free energy omfg! If that was true we'd all be fucking flying around on hover buggies with never ending batteries powering the dildo wedged up our arses... Or atleast that's how I'd roll.


There is no such thing as free energy, fusion/fission has not been perfected. The best we can do ATM is try to harness wind/solar/wave energies. Nuclear power is massive, however it is just another un replenishing resource. Just remember energy comes from energy before you ask me to do reading like it's common knowledge that nuclear power is the perfect solution.

Now I love Dawkins for the points he makes, and I like that he is attempting to fight fire with fire. However at times his ferocity, or atleast the way his followers use his work, can be no better than someone beating a bible in my face.

[JBAE]

you want to get angry watch this doco... http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0814075/ "DELIVER US FROM EVIL"

http://www.imdb.com/video/screenplay/vi2870477593/

[ALEX.]

As Gaius Julius Caesar once said: "There is doubtless a Prime Mover of some sort, but a community of beings that look like us and meddle in our affairs? Highly improbable."
I don't believe in Jesus or a specific God, but I think there is SOMETHING unknown that has made the universe what it is.
Since what we humans can touch, smell, see, and hear with our five senses makes up less than one millionth of reality, I think that you'd be actually pretty close-minded to completely rule out a supreme being.

As the amazing Stephen Hawking once wrote: "Even if there is only one possible unified theory, it is just a set of rules and equations. What is it that breathes fire into the equations and makes a universe for them to describe?... Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing? Is the unified theory so compelling that it brings about its own existence? Or does it need a creator, and, if so does he have any other effect on the universe? And who created him?"

[thrtytwo]

DONT EVEN BOTHER. they don't listen.

brainwashing is hard to undo.

edit: srsly getting worked up,want to post a novel, cbf though. Its as pointless as the morons (no not mormons) who stand in the city yelling at you to convert.

[Roobiks]

i was brought up with it and do beleive.. but i wont ever push it onto someone and i respect ones decision whatever it is. it also wont change my outlook on said person.

but im still a sinning pingpingpingping :)

my question i dont have an answer to is this..

if you think hell is brought into the subject to strike fear into people.. why cause fear in the first place.. whats the reasoning to cause said fear? if they are already believers then why strike fear into them? why would you think its there to strike fear..

legit question.. im just putting them out there like all the others, just interested to see what other peoples outlook is on it by asking the above..

Why do you believe? Because you're scared that if you don't, something bad will happen.
That is the fear that controls all believers.

I seriously don't get how in this day and age, that people, every day normal people, people who use products derived from scientific research, research that has born conclusions from factual information, can believe in something so ridiculous, so incredibly far fetched as religion.
Don't blame your parents for your slight retardism. You have the choice to say "Hang on.. That's actually a load of shit. I make my OWN life on the actions I carry out. Not some douche bag in a cloud."

Every day I see the general population doing stupid shit as people have no situational awareness and go along in their own little bubble. But NOTHING I see ever baffles me as much as what goes on in the head of a religious person.

[thrtytwo]

+1

[Roobiks]

The bible states that the ONLY sin you can't be forgiven for is not believing in the Holy Spirit.

You can go shoot up a shopping centre and blow your load over all the dead bodies you've stacked up to make a corpse pyramid, and if you repent your sins, you are heaven bound. But if you travel the world feeding the poor, and dont believe, you're going straight to hell.

How the fuck do religious people acknowledge this and continue believing?

[Torquen]

DONT EVEN BOTHER. they don't listen.

brainwashing is hard to undo.

edit: srsly getting worked up,want to post a novel, cbf though. Its as pointless as the morons (no not mormons) who stand in the city yelling at you to convert.

So you believe or don't believe?


I seriously don't get how in this day and age, that people, every day normal people, people who use products derived from scientific research, research that has born conclusions from factual information, can believe in something so ridiculous, so incredibly far fetched as religion.

This. Every other ancient ritual/belief/theory (earth being flat, witches etc) has been proved inferior and wrong, and has since been dropped from common belief. Why is religion still here?

[Niva]

One thing I have taken into consideration after the reading the bible, is that even if it were true. I would not worship a god that is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction. jealous and proud of it a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak, a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser, a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciouslly malevolent bully. those of us schooled from infancy in his ways can become desensitized to this horror.

[Roobiks]

1 Samuel 18:25-27
King James Version

And Saul said, Thus shall ye say to David, The king desireth not any dowry, but an hundred foreskins of the Philistines, to be avenged of the king's enemies. But Saul thought to make David fall by the hand of the Philistines.

And when his servants told David these words, it pleased David well to be the king's son in law: and the days were not expired.

Wherefore David arose and went, he and his men, and slew of the Philistines two hundred men; and David brought their foreskins, and they gave them in full tale to the king, that he might be the king's son in law. And Saul gave him Michal his daughter to wife.


Can learn some valuable life lessons there. :/

[INSINR8R]

They all IMO represent the same mofo! alot of them are so similiar hold similiar days dear endorse to abuse and diddling of kiddies dooters and so on and so forth just with a slightly spin on it ect i reckon its similiar to original jap parts and china adaptations

That's right, but to believers, they aren't the same "God".

[INSINR8R]

If there is one thing I can't stand more than religion, it's Scientology. They can fuck right off.

[Bomber]

My thoughts expressed in meme form to save on typing.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh230/phizzle24/memes-troll-god-bloody-hell.jpg

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http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh230/phizzle24/global-warming-god-meme.jpg

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh230/phizzle24/advice-god-meme-generator-ban-incest-adam-and-eve-have-two-sons-rest-of-humanity-comes-from-where-87ba12.jpg

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh230/phizzle24/tumblr_lpie0uOZh31qhk50go1_400.png

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh230/phizzle24/god20meme206.png

[Fukushima]

As Gaius Julius Caesar once said: "There is doubtless a Prime Mover of some sort, but a community of beings that look like us and meddle in our affairs? Highly improbable."
I don't believe in Jesus or a specific God, but I think there is SOMETHING unknown that has made the universe what it is.
Since what we humans can touch, smell, see, and hear with our five senses makes up less than one millionth of reality, I think that you'd be actually pretty close-minded to completely rule out a supreme being.

As the amazing Stephen Hawking once wrote: "Even if there is only one possible unified theory, it is just a set of rules and equations. What is it that breathes fire into the equations and makes a universe for them to describe?... Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing? Is the unified theory so compelling that it brings about its own existence? Or does it need a creator, and, if so does he have any other effect on the universe? And who created him?"


This.

I was brought up a Catholic. But I am a scientist and I'd take rational science over Bible stories any day, and so would a lot of members of the Church.

To me it seems highly unlikely that the amount of coincidences needed for us to exist came about by chance.

Now that doesn't mean I believe in contraception, creationism, vilifying homosexuals, ghosts, immaculate conceptions, bigotry, holy wars and inquisitions, that there is someone watching over my every move or that I will go to heaven one day. I have been to church less than once a year for the last 9 years.

But I will send my kids to a Christian school because I think there is some really good values you can learn from it. Honesty, integrity and compassion are all good things that will serve them well in life. I will however discourage them from small minded views that often accompany religious fanatics.

All four of my Grandparents went to church once or twice a week their whole lives and were very decent loving people. I do not think this is a coincidence and I think as society becomes more secular we are losing a lot.


Flame suit is on.

[duste]

I have no doubt that 'Mary', 'Joseph' and 'Jesus' existed, however I do not believe in the whole "immaculate conception" bullshit, nor any of the so-called "miracles" that followed; miracles don't exist, only good luck.

My guess is Joseph and Mary slept together out of wedlock and she became pregnant. In those days, if you were pregnant out of wedlock, or even if you slept around, you would be stoned to death. IF these three people did indeed exist, clearly Joseph didn't want her stoned to death, and worked with her to develop the biggest lie in the history of mankind.


I seriously don't get how in this day and age, that people, every day normal people, people who use products derived from scientific research, research that has born conclusions from factual information, can believe in something so ridiculous, so incredibly far fetched as religion.

Myself and my partner went to a Christmas dinner with her friend's family, where a lot of the 'major' people from their church were. It was VERY interesting to talk to the 'Brother' (Priest?) - it turned out he supervised the PhD of my current thesis supervisor, and both of them are very religious, yet they are both clearly science (albeit engineering/physics) orientated individuals.


But I will send my kids to a Christian school because I think there is some really good values you can learn from it. Honesty, integrity and compassion are all good things that will serve them well in life. I will however discourage them from small minded views that often accompany religious fanatics.

Likewise, however that is all religion is good for in my eyes - the development of good morals during childhood on top of what your parents teach you.

[Roobiks]

Flame suit is on.

So you believe in a god, so as to learn morals and life values from? There are a hell of a lot more immoral ideas in the Bible then in, for example, How I Met Your Mother. Why not worship and believe in HIMYM? Learn some real, contemporary life lessons from that shit.

The very reason the bible was used in medieval times was for the church to troll people who couldn't read (ie, the general population) by saying things like "Hey little boy, give me a bj because the bible says so and if you don't you'll go to hell.. Yup.. Says it right here. Trollol lol lol bjs are mad." etc.

And I say that with humour, but it's true. People would march into battle because the church would tell them the bible tells them to.

[Miggy]

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The conclusion of Religulous, awesome documentary check it out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2Dzt_Tp5VE

[Miggy]

If there is one thing I can't stand more than religion, it's Scientology. They can fuck right off.

Why?




But I will send my kids to a Christian school because I think there is some really good values you can learn from it. Honesty, integrity and compassion are all good things that will serve them well in life. I will however discourage them from small minded views that often accompany religious fanatics.


Religion is NOT needed for someone to have good morels being taught good morels is what is needed to have good morels! Religion causes discrimination and racism and is stopping the human race from developing to it's full potential.

Let's have a look at the 10 commandments:

1) "Thou shalt have no other gods before me."
2) "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image,"
3) "Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain;"
4) "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy."
5) "Honor thy father and thy mother:"
6) "Thou shalt not kill."
7) "Thou shalt not commit adultery"
8) "Thou shalt not steal."
9) "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor."
10) "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's house,.....nor anything that is thy neighbor's

Don't you think you could make a better list to live our lives by? Where is Do not rape? Respect everyone equally? Treat your fellow human beings, your fellow living things, and the world in general with love, honesty, faithfulness and respect?

I don't want to be a bible/quran basher I honestly do not give a fuck what people believe in it doesn't effect me (even sometimes wear a cross just for fashion) but when you look into it religion just causes pain and suffering and it needs to be wiped out.


Come at me.

[Jiblet]

The bible is edited. Each book of the bible has been chosen to be included. There was a doco ages ago where they uncovered alternative books from the time the bible was written, all including different accounts of the same stories, most not as glamourous or positive toward jesus.

If you think that the media is wrong in the way they manipulate facts, the bible was written and edited 2000 years ago. It's kinda like Chinese wispers.

And have you ever thought of the split in America, where it is "Creationism OR Evolution", they don't complement each other at all.

[1JZVL]

It's a conspiracy.

[Lonewolf]

im an atheist and am happy for others to have their religious views, just dont try and push them onto me.

Missus is a catholic (sorta when it suits her) and some other religion from the far east (karma and "levels" and gurus ) and also believes that people dont have free will :rolleyes:

Fuck knows whats going to happen if we have kids, because I'll undermine that shit at any opportunity :D

[Brockas]

Zero + Zero = ?

How is ANYTHING possible, how did anything start?
We really don't know. That is why we have a LHC, and are constantly researching everything we possibly can. In the grand scheme of things we know very little about the workings of the universe.
In the past we didn't know why the sky was blue, but with technological advancements comes knowledge.

Believing in a God simply because we can't currently explain what happened 13.7 billion years ago is not only illogical, it's damn naive.


The classic line... if God was the original creator of everything, who created God?
You'll get the response - God has always, and will always, exist (without a creator).
Weird how religious people can believe that, but they can't believe that the universe has always, and always will, exist (without a creator).


my question i dont have an answer to is this..

if you think hell is brought into the subject to strike fear into people.. why cause fear in the first place.. whats the reasoning to cause said fear? if they are already believers then why strike fear into them? why would you think its there to strike fear..
It's not for the believers! The believers are already convinced, they are already in the grasp of the church.

It's for the 50/50 believers. It's a compelling argument when you say 'if you're wrong and there is a God, you'll spend eternity in Hell'. It was, and still is, the most powerful recruiting tool the church has. Fear and emotion in general can cloud rational thought, and if you're going to ask sane people to believe a wafer turns into the ACTUAL body of someone who existed 2000 years ago, you need that rational thought clouded as much as possible.


To me it seems highly unlikely that the amount of coincidences needed for us to exist came about by chance.

Why exactly?

The universe is about 14 billion years old, there about 80 billion galaxies, containing a total of over 30000000000 trillion stars (like our sun). Each one of which can support a solar system which may have a planet like Earth in it.

Even if there is a one in a quadrillion chance of life being formed by chance from random elements forming amino acids... probability tells us there are thousands of creatures and planets like us spread throughout the universe.


Or... it was all created by God who sent his only son to die on this planet to save us all from the sin we were born with because Adam ate an apple from a talking snake 6000 years ago...


No prizes for guessing which theory I subscribe to...

[Roobiks]

Re(Lonewolf): She must have an outstanding clam.

[Lonewolf]

Re(Lonewolf): She must have an outstanding clam.

God gave her a great one

[Roobiks]

But he also hates you Lonewolf. That douche bag made it inoperable every month for a period of time due to some slut in a garden.

[Lonewolf]

yeah whats up with that pingpingpingping fucking with the pingpingpingping

[ALEX.]

All four of my Grandparents went to church once or twice a week their whole lives and were very decent loving people. I do not think this is a coincidence and I think as society becomes more secular we are losing a lot.
Yeah I get what you're saying. And I agree that obviously yes, the world is slowly turning from religion. But you draw a correlation between your grandparents going to church and their positive attitude and actions, saying that you think it's no coincidence. Well, here's a real-life example of something to - well not really disprove your correlation but more like add another thing into the mix:

My mum is a Christian and goes to church every Sunday. She has done this since... forever. She does not push her views on anyone at all. In fact, she is very open to people having their own thoughts on the topic.
Conversely, my dad is an atheist and, also like my mum, has never pushed his views on anyone.
However, they are both equally measured in their love, generosity, and views on what is right and wrong. If you had to guess if one, both or none of them were religious, it'd just be sheer luck if you got it right; you couldn't pick it.
What I'm saying is: fair enough thinking that a belief in religion can make you a 'better' person (it can), but it's certainly not to say that the absence of religion in someones life will make them a less 'better' person. My parents are proof of that. Millions of couple would be proof of that.

[duste]

Religion is NOT needed for someone to have good morels being taught good morels is what is needed to have good morels!

This may be the case but, from my experience, it certainly helps.

[Brockas]

This may be the case but, from my experience, it certainly helps.

If you require a threat of eternal punishment in order to be a good person, then you're not really a good person, you're just a decent actor.

[Roobiks]

If you require a threat of eternal punishment in order to be a good person, then you're not really a good person, you're just a decent actor.

Selfish more like.

"I don't want to do bad things to others because something bad will happen to me." Is NOT a good reason to be nice to people. How about "I don't want to do bad things to others because I respect pingpingpingpings and I am not an oxygen theif."

[duste]

Correction, I didn't read the end of Miggy's post. Agreed, they are to be taught, not "threatened" in to you.

Whilst I am a baptised Catholic and went to Catholic schools for both my primary and secondary education, I have never believed in the crap. The morals that were taught at those schools were fantastic (being respectful to teachers, guests, elders in general; being polite to those around you, etc), which is more than I can say for the non-religious schools down in Mandurah...

[ryanr32]

If you hear voices in your head your crazy and get locked away but tell people god spoke to you and it's a miracle

Jim Jeffries explains religion

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZJ-_OTvsqo&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[SSICK]

Lonewolf and Roobiks.........hahaha lost my shit.

Non believer here. Brockas posts win.

[Buckets]

This.

I was brought up a Catholic. But I am a scientist and I'd take rational science over Bible stories any day, and so would a lot of members of the Church.

To me it seems highly unlikely that the amount of coincidences needed for us to exist came about by chance.

Now that doesn't mean I believe in contraception, creationism, vilifying homosexuals, ghosts, immaculate conceptions, bigotry, holy wars and inquisitions, that there is someone watching over my every move or that I will go to heaven one day. I have been to church less than once a year for the last 9 years.

But I will send my kids to a Christian school because I think there is some really good values you can learn from it. Honesty, integrity and compassion are all good things that will serve them well in life. I will however discourage them from small minded views that often accompany religious fanatics.

All four of my Grandparents went to church once or twice a week their whole lives and were very decent loving people. I do not think this is a coincidence and I think as society becomes more secular we are losing a lot.


Flame suit is on.

Pretty much sums up my position as well. Getting hung up on "The Church" and formal religion is a bit misguided, people can be agnostic (believe in spirituality or a high being with out necessarily believing in Jesus, Buddha, Mohammed, what ever the Scientology brigade believe or take the associated religious texts as "gospel truth")

[MAZDABATOR]

GOD: was someone in the right place at the right time telling a wicked bloody story about how he did all this shit..... pulled off a few FLUKES and then bam everyone believed he was serious.

its a simple belief but it shoots most believers down to earth.

i grew up in a multi cutural town ROTORUA/NZ were we got taught moari beliefs and jesus crist beliefs.

both of which i have made up my own mind that there both a crock of shit.

i tried looking into budhism (just to see what they believe) because i was interested as to what was going through there heads. just like we know that islamic people are all fucked in the head <<< THIS IS SO TRUE if they "believe" that is.

i do reckon you learn alot out of "knowing" what religion is about. polite habits, general language skills, right from wrong ect... but to actually believe in it??? wtf man seriously open your mind check out whats around you and actually think about it.

i have seen more proof/sense out of science then anything written by some story teller.

heck even some gypsys have there own religion ................... think bout it

sorry bout the spelling.

[SimonR32]

If you require a threat of eternal punishment in order to be a good person, then you're not really a good person, you're just a decent actor.

Devil Dodgers :)

[2LV8ETR]

Religion is nothing more than philosophical politics. Whenever these tossers rant and rave about some issue they have, they have the power to change the way we live because of the army that stands behind them.

I had this rubbish jammed down my throat at an early age and I hated every minute of it. I had the common sense to follow my own path and determine for myself that what I was taught made no sense at all.

1: The bible states that the earth was created 3000 years ago. (Before science, this was believable).
2: Adam and Eve were the first creations. (No, we crawled out of the sea. again science proves this theory wrong).
3: God created the earth. (If you believe in 1 & 2, then you are stupid enough to believe in this).

The bible is full of contradictions and lies. Having been forced to read it several times and not become a mindless brainwashed lemming is something I appreciate every day of my life. I have values and morals, but they are natural human instinct, not what derived from spending my Sundays listening to some baby raping dickhead.

The biggest thing I hate about religion is hypocrisy. they have all these rules and guidelines for living, and they don't even follow them, and when I pull them up on it, they become offended. Well too bad, if you are going to classify yourself as a particular religion, at least follow your own rules.

Look at the amount of life that has been wasted in the name of some religion or another though war. A study was done some time ago and the conclusions that were reached were astounding, even though the sixth commandments was, "thou shalt not kill", bu it's okay to kill some khunt who has no belief in someone else's religion.
Whilst on the topic of life, all of these religious people believe in meeting their maker upon death, and existing for all of eternity flying around in the clouds strumming a harp. If this is what they are led to believe, then how come they fear death, and not invite it? Why do they mourn the loss of a loved one, and not celebrate it?

Some food for thought...

I've never seen faith move mountains, but I've seen what it can do to skyscrapers.
Praying is like a rocking chair - it'll give you something to do,but it won't get you anywhere.
We need to stop calling evolution a theory. In the ordinary language sense of the word it is a fact. It is as solidly demonstrated as any fact in science.
Gods are fragile things, they may be killed by a whiff of science or a dose of common sense.
It's called faith because it's not knowledge.
All thinking men are atheists.
You can't convince a believer of anything, for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep-seated need to believe.
The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike.
You keep believing, I'll keep evolving.

[Jumanji]

Personally I believe, that there is something greater than us out there and that we were put on this earth for a reason ( however that may be evolution or religious beliefs is personally up to you ). I believe that there is a "good" and an "evil" but I dont necissarily believe in heaven and hell. And I also believe that with every action there is a reaction positive or negative choices aside. And that we as a race at some point will have to pay for the things we may have done wrong.


From what i decided to believe in from a Christian School.

[RELEASE]

i was brought up with it and do beleive.. but i wont ever push it onto someone and i respect ones decision whatever it is. it also wont change my outlook on said person.

but im still a sinning pingpingpingping :)im with the god of chups on this one.

was brought up on it although it was never pushed nor did we attend church every week, nor pray etc. believe in it, never read the bible nor does it interest me, dont live my life based on god, dont preach or push it on people. actually hate pingpingpingpings that push it on others and those after doing some seriously fucked up shit all of a sudden become goodie church goers.

i guess for me its more a respect for the way things are done in our religion/culture/beliefs

[SimonR32]

To the people who believe there is a higher being... You are correct :)

The higher beings are the ones smart enough to know better!

[ZedEx]

Religion is nothing more than philosophical politics. Whenever these tossers rant and rave about some issue they have, they have the power to change the way we live because of the army that stands behind them.

I had this rubbish jammed down my throat at an early age and I hated every minute of it. I had the common sense to follow my own path and determine for myself that what I was taught made no sense at all.

1: The bible states that the earth was created 3000 years ago. (Before science, this was believable).
2: Adam and Eve were the first creations. (No, we crawled out of the sea. again science proves this theory wrong).
3: God created the earth. (If you believe in 1 & 2, then you are stupid enough to believe in this).

The bible is full of contradictions and lies. Having been forced to read it several times and not become a mindless brainwashed lemming is something I appreciate every day of my life. I have values and morals, but they are natural human instinct, not what derived from spending my Sundays listening to some baby raping dickhead.

The biggest thing I hate about religion is hypocrisy. they have all these rules and guidelines for living, and they don't even follow them, and when I pull them up on it, they become offended. Well too bad, if you are going to classify yourself as a particular religion, at least follow your own rules.

Look at the amount of life that has been wasted in the name of some religion or another though war. A study was done some time ago and the conclusions that were reached were astounding, even though the sixth commandments was, "thou shalt not kill", bu it's okay to kill some khunt who has no belief in someone else's religion.
Whilst on the topic of life, all of these religious people believe in meeting their maker upon death, and existing for all of eternity flying around in the clouds strumming a harp. If this is what they are led to believe, then how come they fear death, and not invite it? Why do they mourn the loss of a loved one, and not celebrate it?

Some food for thought...

I've never seen faith move mountains, but I've seen what it can do to skyscrapers.
Praying is like a rocking chair - it'll give you something to do,but it won't get you anywhere.
We need to stop calling evolution a theory. In the ordinary language sense of the word it is a fact. It is as solidly demonstrated as any fact in science.
Gods are fragile things, they may be killed by a whiff of science or a dose of common sense.
It's called faith because it's not knowledge.
All thinking men are atheists.
You can't convince a believer of anything, for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep-seated need to believe.
The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike.
You keep believing, I'll keep evolving.

Great post! Really well summarized.

[2LV8ETR]

http://www.myconfinedspace.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/biblenoah.jpg
http://jitendrajeet.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/jesus-motivational-poster2.jpg?w=460&h=368
http://scottklarr.com/media/atheism/motivationalPosters/atheism_motivational_poster_29.jpg

[Jumanji]

2LV8ETR - I agree with what you have said BIG TIME. The point I would like to point out is some 2000 years after the bible. People were being burnt alive at the stake for being witches and apparently flying due to a simple pulley system that they were hooked into.

[Mad_Aussie]

In the beginning, man created god.

[Kaido]

question for all the non-believers, do you believe in the supernauture? or does that fall under religion?

[Mad_Aussie]

question for all the non-believers, do you believe in the supernauture? or does that fall under religion?

I'll put it out there, I believe yes - there's a fuckload of energy out there that we know nothing about. But no, stories told to the masses about a superhero that could turn water into wine (obviously excluding the 12-18 months worth of viticulture that would have been involved in doing that) and healing people with magic fingers... That's all a load of shit. Every religion is just there to put a story to the way the world works, and to keep people in fear of doing the wrong thing. In fact, it's far more logical to assume that there might have been extra-terrestrial involvement, and in fact I think that Stargate is about as close to the point as it gets. lol.

It does make me laugh, however, that people are more ready to believe that there's a magic cloud-man who could create everything in a matter of seven days, but it's completely illogical to imagine another culture that evolved 10,000 years before us on another planet like this one and visited us at some stage in the past, sharing doctrine and technology. Much easier to believe in a spontaneous god.

[Fukushima]

Sorry Brockas I'm not the right person to argue the finer points of what I believe because I'll cock it up and be torn to shreds by a clever aethiest like yourself. My absolute beliefs arnt settled and I've gone in a full circle from not believing at all at certain stages.

For sport though I'll try and explain it. The universe hates order and structure the tendancy of everything is to head towards chaos. It takes energy to create a more complex molecule so every step of creating complex life is an uphill battle. Enthalpy and entropy. So with the natural universe completely against it from the lowest level we are supposed to believe that life started in a primordial soup struck by lightning and over millions of years life became more and more complex to the point where we walk and talk and argue over the internet.

Yes it could have all happened by itself, the sun provides external energy to overcome entropy and fuel life. But its not that hard to imagine 'God' giving the whole thing a bit of a prod and it doesn't harm anyone to think that way.

I argue this very poorly, I read a very interesting book 5 or so years ago. It was written by a collection of scientists from engineers, geologists, geneticists, physicists, molecular biologists and doctors. Each had different reasons for believing in God but the main point is they all did and had come to a point where they had no difficulty working as sucessful scientists in the natural world and believing in a spiritual one.

I don't know the name of the book, and I dont care to ask anyone to read it. I've also found myself listening to various interviews including religious people, intensive care physicians etc etc etc.

There are several other reasons I believe but they are based on a lifetime of experiences and encounters with many different people I have met. So yes its a very individual thing.

Now if my life experiences included being raped by a priest I might think very differently.

[Torquen]

question for all the non-believers, do you believe in the supernauture? or does that fall under religion?

No.

[JBAE]

Yeh i BELEIVE in ENERGY, and good and bad and motherfucking karma! fuck knows how it works but its not attributed to some fucker that floats in the clouds high fiving his homies for finger bashing kids!

i beleive there is more to life than just a meat and bone scenario, as in everything comes from something else energy transitioning from one state/form to another ect so on and so forth IN A NON GOD WAY! you put out bad shit bad shit happens to you eventually, but cant explain it for the life of me but i beleive in forms of energy good bad ect for an example i wont fuck with ouija boards and such or anything in that genre, everything has an equal and opposite, shit has to be balanced in some form.

Jefferies sums it up will the commandments could have been written as JUST DONT BE pingpingpingpingS TO EACHOTHER and BAM problem solvered

Religion is a scape goat for fuckheads gives them a way out and a justifiable reason to act like a cock and sleep at night because they went and repented and confessed their sin to some pedophile in a cage!

Ive gone through the whole saga baptism,communion, confirmation, ect ect and dont regret it as it gives a view of both sides and just how deluded the whole thing is.

[adrenalin]

As said went to private school and also hate it. Also agree with all its there for is to provide people with a sense of hope when times get tough ( not a bad thing ) but when pingpingpingpings try and force it on me or knock on my door sun morn i get pissed off very quicky

[Kaido]

Jefferies sums it up will the commandments could have been written as JUST DONT BE pingpingpingpingS TO EACHOTHER and BAM problem solvered

Religion is a scape goat for fuckheads gives them a way out and a justifiable reason to act like a cock and sleep at night because they went and repented and confessed their sin to some pedophile in a cage!

Ive gone through the whole saga baptism,communion, confirmation, ect ect and dont regret it as it gives a view of both sides and just how deluded the whole thing is.

I don't think religion is just use as a scape goat but i will agree that it is large amount of people who use religion for that purporse.

The Commandments pretty much say that, only 3 out of the 10 relate to god. I personally believe that the church has corrupted religion... man greed

Good example is if you have a chance go visit the vatican in italy, it is amazing work of art on so many levels BUT the amount of money it would have cost to build such a place of worship is disgusting... The money could have been better spent HELPING its people

[JBAE]

It does make me laugh, however, that people are more ready to believe that there's a magic cloud-man who could create everything in a matter of seven days, but it's completely illogical to imagine another culture that evolved 10,000 years before us on another planet like this one and visited us at some stage in the past, sharing doctrine and technology. Much easier to believe in a spontaneous god.

Thing is i personally think it would be in the favour of the jeebus fans and others to beleive in ETs as it would in a round about way work to offer a factual BASIS for what they are so caught up in has some form of foundation that has just over the years has been expanded upon and taken well out of context to suit peoples personal agendas and greed aswell as the chinese wisper effect! i mean as i said before alot of the religions that are very geographically diverse from each other yet they all claim to essentially worship and describe the same/similiar thing/things/beings and tend to have one being as a focal point of there attention or in the was of the greeks numerous focal points.

[JBAE]

I don't think religion is just use as a scape goat but i will agree that it is large amount of people who use religion for that purporse.

The Commandments pretty much say that, only 3 out of the 10 relate to god. I personally believe that the church has corrupted religion... man greed

Good example is if you have a chance go visit the vatican in italy, it is amazing work of art on so many levels BUT the amount of money it would have cost to build such a place of worship is disgusting... The money could have been better spent HELPING its people

but thats it its a "scape goat" or "excuse" for someones wealth, for some ones power, for some one acting in an asshole manner or showing prejudice to another person because they dont beleive, dont beleive in the same god, live a certain way, act a certain way, make certain life choices.

[Mad_Aussie]

Thing is i personally think it would be in the favour of the jeebus fans and others to beleive in ETs as it would in a round about way work to offer a factual BASIS for what they are so caught up in has some form of foundation that has just over the years has been expanded upon and taken well out of context to suit peoples personal agendas and greed aswell as the chinese wisper effect! i mean as i said before alot of the religions that are very geographically diverse from each other yet they all claim to essentially worship and describe the same/similiar thing/things/beings and tend to have one being as a focal point of there attention or in the was of the greeks numerous focal points.

Which is why I do honestly believe that our development as a species has been influenced from the outside. But it's 10,000% more likely that it was a group of physical beings rocking up in some sort of fantastic technology that no-one had any existing context to draw from when they were describing them, than some whispy energy-god magically tearing the rib from some spontaneouswoman, and creating a mate for her with some more magic, then a talking snake tricking them into sinning. In saying that, however, there could be beings that have transcended the state of matter that we're used to, and they could have been apparitions or something that just did appear. Who knows, but you're right - every culture on the planet refers to essentially the same thing in one way or another. So either we all saw the same chariots of fire descend from the sky, or we're all hard-wired on an evolutionary level to require some sort of 'higher being' delusion to keep ourselves in line.

http://slawa.com.ua/images/stories/demo/news/image012.jpg

[Tre-Cool]

I dont believe in God. I don't believe in a higher power. I don't believe in karma.

I can probably attribute that to being braught up in a relativily non-religious family, sure my mum would go to church every now and then when i was growing up, but that was more often when she was on drugs for her back pain. If i went i was often kicked out or asked not to come. probably coz i swore a lot and i guess at a young age knew that what they were talking about sounded like a load of shit.

we were also a heavily involved motorsport family, so speedway cars, motor-cross etc were events we were more than likely attending on sundays.

What i do believe in, if you want to call it that.. is simply don't be a complete pingpingpingping to every one, help out friends & family when you can. try and treat everyone/animals with respect, though i often struggle with the latter. These are just basic things i think all human/intelligent beings know instinctivily. It is not something that i feel needs to be taught if a child's upbringing is from a loving family.

Now, in saying all of the above. I know i have a "dark side" too. i believe that disabled children i.e down syndrome, medically dependant, brain damaged babies/infants should be aborted or destroyed as soon as possible. I believe they are nothing but a burden & bring nothing to the table for the further enhancemant of mankind.

I've made the above clear to my family, so that they know exactly what to do shall i ever be in any accident and the chance of becoming mentally disabled or incapacitated is possible. Basically put me out of my misery.

[waxdass]

Energy matter cannot just 'evolve'. This is physics 101.
Therefore at some point in time, it had to be created to have it there in the first place.

[Ryan1080]

Pointless thread is pointless...

Atheists won't convince religious people of their beliefs.

Religious people won't convince atheists of their beliefs.

It will be like the other religion and politics threads. Everyone believes their opinion is the right one. So what's the point of even discussing it??

[Torquen]

For some reason when ever I think of a religious argument i immediately envision this...

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/G1PllrfeiVw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Retards fighting over shit that doesn't matter.

[JBAE]

^ why not its offtopic for a reason? and a place to chat shit and i find it interesting personally to see in this day and age what a decent spread of people and ages whay they do and dont beleive in.

Im actually suprised so far at the amount of people that DO beleive in god ect thought it would be less for some reason.

[GTRgav]

Funny thing about God - did you know she's black?

[Mad_Aussie]

Pointless thread is pointless...

Atheists won't convince religious people of their beliefs.

Religious people won't convince atheists of their beliefs.

It will be like the other religion and politics threads. Everyone believes their opinion is the right one. So what's the point of even discussing it??

Exactly. People end up hating each-other. Which is why it's a topic essentially banned in pubs, lol.

<iframe width="480" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/iTywHAFZxcU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Kaido]

Pointless thread is pointless...

Atheists won't convince religious people of their beliefs.

Religious people won't convince atheists of their beliefs.

It will be like the other religion and politics threads. Everyone believes their opinion is the right one. So what's the point of even discussing it??

im not trying to convince anyone...

however it seems that alot of the atheists here are.... I think everyone has a right to believe in whatever they want i may not agree with it but i think people should be able to respect each other believes... however history has shown us this isn't the case

[JBAE]

^ i think the main problem alot of people have with religion is the shit it has caused through out history and still to this day, if it was something that didnt have its track record and cause the issues that it does to this day no one would really be bothered by it.

As it doesnt really affect you alot these days UNTIL you get the bashers on tv and in public preaching their crap and trying to change laws and such ie/abortion ect to suit their beleifs or cause ANOTHER war or be used as part of the pretext for a war.

[Ryan1080]

^ why not its offtopic for a reason? and a place to chat shit and i find it interesting personally to see in this day and age what a decent spread of people and ages whay they do and dont beleive in.

Im actually suprised so far at the amount of people that DO beleive in god ect thought it would be less for some reason.

I don't know, seeing the clear bias on here, it will turn into another religion bashfest, like it has in previous threads. This was all 'discussed' before on here many times. Nothing came out of it.

Personally I don't give a shit what someone else believes in, or doesn't believe in, as long as it's not rammed down my throat. It's a personal thing. I'm a catholic, not a strict one, might go to church at christmas/easter time, but that's about it. I hate religious loopers like every other pingpingpingping does. But I also hate pingpingpingpings who don't respect other people's beliefs and constantly try to ram it down their throat that their belief is wrong.

Let them be. Not sure how it bothers atheists that I celebrate christmas and easter. It's a private thing for me, doesn't affect you in any way what so ever, so just piss off :)

[Frenchy]

Fuck I could go on a epic write up on this but for the sake of keeping it simple;

Religion is just a club/group. No different from a car club, bike club, golf club, secret mens club, fuck even through a government.

All contain rules, all require you to pay for 'benefits' and all think that they are better than each other. Every club has a leader, their council and then the people who follow the rules without fail in order to achieve something at the end, some of those people do whatever they want and get ousted for it, which in turn allows people to generalize that club/group into the bad/good guys.
Yet people feel the need to criticize a religious group due to what? Because their beliefs are different? Funnily enough those same people who criticize, also uphold most guidelines that churches instill on people.

Perception of religion has been distorted for along time.
Its just another means of trying to guide people to do things that are inline with what others think is right.

[-Luke-]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRJAQUqbeXc

[Ryan1080]

^ i think the main problem alot of people have with religion is the shit it has caused through out history and still to this day, if it was something that didnt have its track record and cause the issues that it does to this day no one would really be bothered by it.

As it doesnt really affect you alot these days UNTIL you get the bashers on tv and in public preaching their crap and trying to change laws and such ie/abortion ect to suit their beleifs or cause ANOTHER war or be used as part of the pretext for a war.

Point taken. However atheists aren't saints either (pardon the pun!), classic example is Hitler and Nazis lol. Very anti religion etheists who massacred millions. You can say it was in the name of religion, more like anti religion. Whatever you wanna call it. Religion/Atheism is on the same boat as far as loopers are concerned.

[Mad_Aussie]

Point taken. However atheists aren't saints either (pardon the pun!), classic example is Hitler and Nazis lol. Very anti religion etheists who massacred millions. You can say it was in the name of religion, more like anti religion. Whatever you wanna call it. Religion/Atheism is on the same boat as far as loopers are concerned.

That's a point thrown around a lot, but Adolf wasn't an atheist. He was brought up in a Catholic home, and held beliefs in an 'active deity'. He wasn't a Christian (and had plans to remove Christianity from the country after the war), but he was certainly not an atheist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler%27s_religious_views#Statements_agains t_atheism

[Crispymk2]

I can go to a museum and see first hand the remains of dinosaurs and fossils which (imo) prove that major parts of the religious teachings are wrong.

Believers try to say that they were put here by God to test our faith, I say fuck that.

Power, control and money are the key elements of religion.

We can all be civil to each other without religion, there would not be a breakdown if society.

[JBAE]

Point taken. However atheists aren't saints either (pardon the pun!), classic example is Hitler and Nazis lol. Very anti religion etheists who massacred millions. You can say it was in the name of religion, more like anti religion. Whatever you wanna call it. Religion/Atheism is on the same boat as far as loopers are concerned.

also valid ^ jeebus loopers muslim loopers scientology loopers atheist loopers subaru loopers every sect has them the very last being the worst!

[Ryan1080]

That's a point thrown around a lot, but Adolf wasn't an atheist. He was brought up in a Catholic home, and held beliefs in an 'active deity'. He wasn't a Christian (and had plans to remove Christianity from the country after the war), but he was certainly not an atheist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler%27s_religious_views#Statements_agains t_atheism

Don't trust everything that wikipedia says, I can go and edit it to say he was a jew, if I wanted to...

He may have been born a catholic, doesn't mean he was when he was in power. The fact is the church and all religions were persecuted in nazi germany.

On a lesser scale, albeit also deadly, was the communist regime in eastern europe/russia etc.

Hence why I put atheism and religion into the same boat. Both camps can have, have had, and most likely will again have loopers that will cause damage to society. That's humanity for you.

[Kaido]

Power, control and money are the key elements of religion.



incorrect... they are the key elements of the church... the people who have twisted the teachings/word of god (whatever you want to call it) to suit their on personal agenda

[Mad_Aussie]

Don't trust everything that wikipedia says, I can go and edit it to say he was a jew, if I wanted to...

He may have been born a catholic, doesn't mean he was when he was in power. The fact is the church and all religions were persecuted in nazi germany.

On a lesser scale, albeit also deadly, was the communist regime in eastern europe/russia etc.

Hence why I put atheism and religion into the same boat. Both camps can have, have had, and most likely will again have loopers that will cause damage to society. That's humanity for you.

I certainly don't believe everything google and wikipedia says (I have a degree!), but was just illustrating the point with a link. He wasn't an atheist, as he held beliefs of a higher power. He just wasn't a practising Christian.

The thing is, (and not trying to directly argue with you), that I just don't think atheists can be grouped with religious people in the same category.
The whole concept of atheists is that they all don't believe in the same god. And just because they don't believe doesn't mean that you should put a title to them like that and categorise them.
What they are, are people. And there are some bad people out there, both religious and not religious. I just see it as a truism when you try to debate that atheists are just as bad as religious people, because in the end it's people being just as bad as people. No athiest is going to go on a crusade in the name of not believing in something.

A bit of a convoluted way to describe that thought, I know, but I hope some people kinda get what I'm rambling about, lol..

[Ryan1080]

incorrect... they are the key elements of the church... the people who have twisted the teachings/word of god (whatever you want to call it) to suit their on personal agenda

I actually agree with you, to an extent.

It's the human side that I suppose administers it, can be corrupted, like anything else really.

Religion itself is not what has caused the troubles in the world. More so it's the certain pingpingpingpings in power who have administered the religion, had their own agenda etc who used it to manipulate people.

At the end of the day, you have smart people, you have dumb people. Dumb people can be manipulated very easily. Myself, if hypothetically the pope came up to me and told me to do something bad, I'm smart enough not to listen to it. An uneducated gullible retard on the other hand is easy to manipulate, like in the third world muslim country... you see the results of that!

Religion itself is fine. It's the human factor that is mostly at fault here.

[2LV8ETR]

Think of the advances man has made since the conception of the bible.

The progress in science in the last 100 years has proven so much of it to be full of shit, that it's ridiculous. Darwin's theory of evolution was ridiculed and the man was mocked and chastised about his findings, yet in the end he's had the last laugh.

Now, just think of what another 100 years of progress is going to do to the rest of it.

[ReaperSS]

I belive in a God, i dont think its a christian god, mulslim god but there is definatly a "maker" Everything in life and everything about the human body is way to complex to just evolve or happen via a big bang etc

[Ryan1080]

I certainly don't believe everything google and wikipedia says (I have a degree!), but was just illustrating the point with a link. He wasn't an atheist, as he held beliefs of a higher power. He just wasn't a practising Christian.

You got that from the unreliable link. Unless you have personally known Hitler, you do not know that for sure. I'd rather let the facts speak for themselves...


The thing is, (and not trying to directly argue with you), that I just don't think atheists can be grouped with religious people in the same category.
The whole concept of atheists is that they all don't believe in the same god. And just because they don't believe doesn't mean that you should put a title to them like that and categorise them.
What they are, are people. And there are some bad people out there, both religious and not religious. I just see it as a truism when you try to debate that atheists are just as bad as religious people, because in the end it's people being just as bad as people. No athiest is going to go on a crusade in the name of not believing in something.


All fine and well argument, except communism blows it out of the water, sorry. They actually went after religion becasue they did not believe in it. It was clearly an atheist regime. What category do you think I put them into? A religious person believes there is a god/supreme being/whatever. An atheist believes there is no god/supreme being/whatever. It's still a belief of some sort. Both religion and atheism discuss the existance, or lack thereof, of a god/gods. They discuss the same context, but have a different opinion on the matter. Both sides, have strong opinions on the matter. Otherwise this thread woudln't even exist. Based on that, I put them in the same boat.

Feel free to disagree lol.

[Crispymk2]

I would agree with that. The church have used the teachings for their own means but I still disagree with the validity of the teachings themselves.

[Tre-Cool]

I see organised religions as a form of enslavery. something that requires you to give up something so personal that should never be given away to anyone... and that "thing" is free will.

[Mad_Aussie]

You got that from the unreliable link. Unless you have personally known Hitler, you do not know that for sure. I'd rather let the facts speak for themselves...

Also learned about it through school, uni, etc. Had this great class I used to take quite often, "history" I'm pretty sure it was. Google isn't the be-all-and-end-all of learning ;) The link was there as a reference.



All fine and well argument, except communism blows it out of the water, sorry. They actually went after religion becasue they did not believe in it. It was clearly an atheist regime. What category do you think I put them into? A religious person believes there is a god/supreme being/whatever. An atheist believes there is no god/supreme being/whatever. It's still a belief of some sort. Both religion and atheism discuss the existance, or lack thereof, of a god/gods. They discuss the same context, but have a different opinion on the matter. Both sides, have strong opinions on the matter. Otherwise this thread woudln't even exist. Based on that, I put them in the same boat.

I don't necessarily believe communism "blows it out of the water". Sure, the leaders at the time did some horrible things to try and wipe out religion, but that doesn't mean that all communists were not religious. I feel it's still people being people - and the soviets at the time saw religion as something that could lead people to questioning and defying the regime.

Sure, you get *some* atheists getting quite militant about their attitudes, but on the most part, the common every day atheist is a person who not only doesn't believe in god, they also don't actively think about it. Which is why I don't think they can be grouped into the same category.

But I do see your point, and yeah I do agree with you. I just think on the whole there's more atheists that don't care about religion and don't think about it at all than atheists that do, so it's not fair to class them the same way.

[smellyhippy]

All fine and well argument, except communism blows it out of the water, sorry. They actually went after religion becasue they did not believe in it. It was clearly an atheist regime. What category do you think I put them into? A religious person believes there is a god/supreme being/whatever. An atheist believes there is no god/supreme being/whatever. It's still a belief of some sort. Both religion and atheism discuss the existance, or lack thereof, of a god/gods. They discuss the same context, but have a different opinion on the matter. Both sides, have strong opinions on the matter. Otherwise this thread woudln't even exist. Based on that, I put them in the same boat.

Feel free to disagree lol.

Agreed, a lot of people who class themselves as athiests, when asked on a form for religion, will put athiest rather than none.

I tend to lean towards there is something out there, like what ninja said. There might be, but there might not be, so I don't worry about it, and live my life for myself. I don't care what religion you have, so long as you don't try to push it to me. Everyone should respect everyone else's beliefs and let them believe in whatever they want without being persecuted for it.

[Ryan1080]

I don't necessarily believe communism "blows it out of the water". Sure, the leaders at the time did some horrible things to try and wipe out religion, but that doesn't mean that all communists were not religious. I feel it's still people being people - and the soviets at the time saw religion as something that could lead people to questioning and defying the regime.

Sure, you get *some* atheists getting quite militant about their attitudes, but on the most part, the common every day atheist is a person who not only doesn't believe in god, they also don't actively think about it. Which is why I don't think they can be grouped into the same category.

But I do see your point, and yeah I do agree with you. I just think on the whole there's more atheists that don't care about religion and don't think about it at all than atheists that do, so it's not fair to class them the same way.

Replace the word 'atheist' with 'religious', and the argument will be the same the other way :)

[Ryan1080]

I see organised religions as a form of enslavery. something that requires you to give up something so personal that should never be given away to anyone... and that "thing" is free will.

What have I given away? Nothing. I have free will. I go to church when I please. I don't pay any money towards it. It's a free choice for me, and I'm not forced to do anything.

Sects on the other hand are a different kettle of fish...

[Lonewolf]

I see organised religions as a form of enslavery. something that requires you to give up something so personal that should never be given away to anyone... and that "thing" is free will.

but you dont have free will at all, becausae god has a "plan" for everything
*rolls eyes*

[Joe]

Thread closed.

For the record, I'm Catholic yet I 100% believe in the Scientific basis behind mankind's inception.. but either way, I still don't believe a car forum is the place to discuss religion in any way, shape or form.

[TJ]

To those who say you cant actually see god - Just watch the F1, he is in the Mclaren with #3 on the side.