View Full Version : The Value of Turbo Water Cooling?
Brockas
17-07-2005, 11:54 AM
Ok, I've heard a bit of contradicting info on the subject of water cooling turbos. I've heard that its not necessary but helps turbo durability. To what extent is this true?
Aparently there are a few Master Power turbos running around that aren't using any water cooling at all. How are these different? Are the different?
The reason this is important as I've been told that it can cost up to $500 for some properly set up water lines, on top of the $100 for the oil line. Obviously if its not necessary I'd rather get the water lines done at a later stage if need be.
Will a properly set up oil cooler be just as effective for cooling the turbo as the water lines? As this would be prefferable, even if its not cheaper....
I had this same issue when I was looking for my new turbo....water or oil cooled? I ended up getting the oil cooled turbo, because I couldnt find any huge disadvantages to running an oil cooled turbo over a water cooled one, but there was a large difference in price.
The only real disadvantage to an oil cooled turbo over a water cooled turbo, is the fact that you really have to idle the car down after a hard run, or you risk the superheated oil coking up the bearings.
Water cooled turbos arent as critical for idling down, and some cars (such as a WRX), will actually circulate the water through the turbo after the car is turned off, due to the placement of the coolant header tank allowing the water to drain through it.
I've seen people argue that an oil cooled turbo keeps the coolant temperatures more consistent, because ultra hot coolant isnt flowing back into the cooling system from the turbo. This also depends where the coolant drains into, so it may or may not be an advantage for some.
There is no real physical or mechanical difference between an oil and water cooled turbo, apart from the water jacket around the centre section of the turbo, where the bearings are located.
Some HKS and Greddy turbos are oil cooled, so it must work okay :D
upgarage
17-07-2005, 04:44 PM
the oils there to lube
The oil is there to lube the turbo, yes, but it also cools the bearings and the turbo shaft
thommo
18-07-2005, 05:22 PM
are you going to run an oil cooler on ur wrx to help lower those temperatures more?
SimonR32
18-07-2005, 05:42 PM
i saw joe running his car for at least 30min after he boosted once the other night... need i say more
most decent bb turbos come with water cooling now, its only poxo misubishi spec crap that doesnt
RB20ZED
18-07-2005, 10:07 PM
meh same old **** really u wouldnt even know the difference by driving them but with oil cooled and lubed turbo's it is best to cool them down a little longer but not excessive like 5mins lol water cooled 30secs is all i think is needed maybe 1 min for oil cooled
i saw joe running his car for at least 30min after he boosted once the other night... need i say more
most decent bb turbos come with water cooling now, its only poxo misubishi spec crap that doesnt
It wasnt 30 mins ya goose, it was only a few minutes of idling after prolonged boost :D
I havent seen a BB turbo that hasnt been water cooled...mine is plain bearing, and oil cooled.
thommo: Process West thermostat equipped oil cooler is next on my list of mods.
R32-GTR
19-07-2005, 02:57 PM
If the turbo comes with water cooling use it. If it doesnt, then not much you can do really.
Lumpy
19-07-2005, 04:12 PM
Generally speaking because the bb turbos require a poof-teenth of the volume of oil you would normally expect to see a turbo get, the cooling properties of the oil are reduced if not deminished, which is when you never see a BB core without water cooling passages in it.
If it wasnt meant to have water in it, then the core would have been made without the provision.
v8souproar
21-07-2005, 08:51 PM
I had this same issue when I was looking for my new turbo....water or oil cooled? I ended up getting the oil cooled turbo, because I couldnt find any huge disadvantages to running an oil cooled turbo over a water cooled one, but there was a large difference in price.
The only real disadvantage to an oil cooled turbo over a water cooled turbo, is the fact that you really have to idle the car down after a hard run, or you risk the superheated oil coking up the bearings.
Water cooled turbos arent as critical for idling down, and some cars (such as a WRX), will actually circulate the water through the turbo after the car is turned off, due to the placement of the coolant header tank allowing the water to drain through it.
I've seen people argue that an oil cooled turbo keeps the coolant temperatures more consistent, because ultra hot coolant isnt flowing back into the cooling system from the turbo. This also depends where the coolant drains into, so it may or may not be an advantage for some.
There is no real physical or mechanical difference between an oil and water cooled turbo, apart from the water jacket around the centre section of the turbo, where the bearings are located.
Some HKS and Greddy turbos are oil cooled, so it must work okay :D i dont quite know what ur onto, i know all turbochargers have the oil lubrication and some turbos have water cooling as well. For some reason i havent heard about oil cooling.
the oil cooled turbos would NEED an external cooler (poss with a fan) that keeps the oil temps to between 95 to 110 degrees, so engine and turbo life arnt shortened. more work thats not needed unless the car is highly modified.
Lord_Muck
21-07-2005, 09:06 PM
And you don't think by some strange coincidence the oil gets cooled as it is passed around the engine?
Okay, a turbo which has no water cooling is known as an "oil cooled" turbo. As the oil lubricates, it also cools down the turbo shaft and the bearings, thus the name.
v8souproar
22-07-2005, 06:59 AM
Okay, a turbo which has no water cooling is known as an "oil cooled" turbo. As the oil lubricates, it also cools down the turbo shaft and the bearings, thus the name. ah ok then, i thought it was a bit strange to have oil cooling, in the sense i thought...
got em a bit mixed up
v8souproar
22-07-2005, 07:03 AM
And you don't think by some strange coincidence the oil gets cooled as it is passed around the engine? disregarding my first post,
In most cases it does, but in higher output motors it actually heats the oil to a degree where an oil cooler is needed to give reliable performance, such as the Typhoon.
R32-GTR
22-07-2005, 02:17 PM
Id say thats more of a safeguard than a necessity.
[RX2]
22-07-2005, 02:26 PM
Id say thats more of a safeguard than a necessity.
indeed, as i have run both types on my mazda & even with a std s5 rx7 turbo that has the option i still didnt use it. then when i bought a brand new to4 bearing body for it, it didnt have the option there so it didnt matter to me.
now with the dirty big new snail it doesnt have the option either......
http://show.imagehosting.us/showimg.php?file=nouser_475/T0_-1_475596.JPG&picid=475596&uid=0 (http://www.imagehosting.us/index.php?action=show&ident=475596)
not that you can see the bearing body hehe
R32-GTR
22-07-2005, 05:44 PM
nice turbo booger. big
v8souproar
22-07-2005, 06:03 PM
Id say thats more of a safeguard than a necessity. well i couldnt agree more, the motor would still last past its warranty date, only there to give a longer engine life.
Ford do extensive testing on their cars (although the typhoons intital clutch is another story) and they found that the oil temps did go too high for theyre liking.
got boost
25-07-2005, 06:06 PM
my old masterpower had no water cooling and neither does the new turbo.
for long term reliablity water cooling is the go. BUT it makes it easy to install without having to run water lines
MrMayhem
25-07-2005, 09:54 PM
water cooling for ball bearing turbos.........
water cooling for ball bearing turbos.........
:werd:
A BB turbo without water cooling would last all of 5 minutes under heavy load..
Pegga
26-07-2005, 11:46 AM
it all comes down to the fact if a turbo has water and oil lines both have to be hooked up or it'll **** it simple.but if ya get an oil cooled turbo u should be able to do what u want if it is designed with no water it should br right.try turbonetics they make a range of air cooled turbo's and i've seen them jam a **** load of horsepower
[RX2]
26-07-2005, 12:27 PM
it all comes down to the fact if a turbo has water and oil lines both have to be hooked up or it'll **** it simple.
as i stated earlier,i always used to run mazda s4/5 turbo's & never ran the water cooling, never shat a turbo either.
flupstar
18-08-2005, 12:36 PM
A BB turbo without water cooling would last all of 5 minutes under heavy load..
Thats a pretty large assumption.
Ive run a GT30 BB turbo under heavy load @ 22psi for about a week... with coolant lines disconnected. The turbo is still being used (on another car) to this day.. reliably. That was 2 years ago. No evidence of oil coking...
Im certainly not saying I recommend it.. infact I think its a moronic thing to do (I was testing another theory at the time). But the garrett GT BB turbos at least are pretty damn durable
-Tristan
Well my comment was in general, someone else might do that and their turbo would blow up :)
Obviously there would be exceptions, and there could be other factors involved that might dictate how long the turbo lasts, for example, high EGTs would probably increase the wear factor tenfold..
DCIEVE
18-08-2005, 05:58 PM
Not having looked at the design of a bb housing to closely myself, I have been told by one reputable workshop operator that the water is simply there to get the turbo (specifically the bearings) up to operatating temp at startup. Further to this many rally car builders disconnect the water lines to avoid heating the coolant too much due to cooling issues..
By no means do I suggest this is 100% true, but something to think about.
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