Speed camera fine question

[ossie_21]

I was under the impression that if there was 2 cars in the photo, then these fines can't be issued....but the one a mate of mine got in the mail says otherwise:

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a118/ossie_21/Picture.jpg

His is the car in the right hand lane, and you can just make out what seems to be a box at the front of his car. I heard a rumour that the new cameras could tell what car was/is speeding, but that seems to be a little bit stretched to be believed straight away.

Thoughts??

[lathiat]

The new cameras are supposedly capable of tracking multiple lanes at once and have made this a non issue, someone posted in another thread saying they tried that one and was told that.

I can't say for certain but have read in multiple places elsewhere.

[Buckets]

plead common law and get off

I would be interested to see what would happen if you take it further. How can the PoPo be 100% sure it was your vehicle.

[Lump]

The new cameras are supposedly capable of tracking multiple lanes at once and have made this a non issue.
correct

[fourseven]

The "box" shows which car was detected as speeding.

[coucheee]

correct

ill back this up, heard srtaight from the horses mouth, a family friend is a senior detective and has warned me about the new cameras, can shot multiple lanes at once and also shoot across and get cars travelling other direction

[XF Falcon]

been victim to one of these cameras... it was on Albany highway and it got the rear of my car, which was 4 lanes away from the camera. Unfortunately for me there were no cars in between the camera and me at the time.

[n1ghth4wk]

The new cameras are configured to get as many lanes as they like and speeds of every vehicle in the frame.

Don't mean to hijack, (somewhat related, no need for a new topic), but a mate thinks he may have gotten done by a red light camera the other night. He was turning right (that signal being red, and the main signal being green). Anyone know if they get you turning on a red?
No, he did not see it flash, however was not concentrating at the time.

[colt75]

yes a red light camera... would get you turning on a... red light.

thats if its pointed in the general direction of him.

[n1ghth4wk]

yes a red light camera... would get you turning on a... red light.

thats if its pointed in the general direction of him.

Sucks to be him then (first cruise, only just got green Ps so there goes 3 demerits). We just weren't sure where the sensors were.

[JBAE]

How do speed cameras and traffic light cams operate? are they a normal camera that requires light (hence the flash) or are they dependant on INFRA RED light at all?

[DBLDOSE]

How do speed cameras and traffic light cams operate? are they a normal camera that requires light (hence the flash) or are they dependant on INFRA RED light at all?

Was actually thinking about this the other day, but more in terms of fucking with the cameras by placing a strip of IR LEDs around your number plates.

Go grab your remote, aim it at your camera and hold down a button and look at what you see. Try and replicate same thing around the number plate and camera couldn't get a clear picture you would think.

[JBAE]

No idea what you are talking about...

:)

[V70R]

Been a victim of these cameras too.
Same speed same fine same shot.
Pay the fine and have a nice day :)

p.s. you were lucky you weren't done for 'assumed' chatting on the phone.

[TJ]

Sucks to be him then (first cruise, only just got green Ps so there goes 3 demerits). We just weren't sure where the sensors were.

Cool, a p plater running red lights. Hopefully he loses all his points before he wipes out someone doing it again.

[n1ghth4wk]

Cool, a p plater running red lights. Hopefully he loses all his points before he wipes out someone doing it again.

Yeah he absolutely deserves it. Running reds is one of the things I hate up there with drink driving.

[BOSS 290]

I was under the impression that if there was 2 cars in the photo, then these fines can't be issued....but the one a mate of mine got in the mail says otherwise:

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a118/ossie_21/Picture.jpg

His is the car in the right hand lane, and you can just make out what seems to be a box at the front of his car. I heard a rumour that the new cameras could tell what car was/is speeding, but that seems to be a little bit stretched to be believed straight away.

Thoughts??

Some points for clarification.

The camera is a front facing unit, was it radar or lidar? Lidar is far more accurate at pin pointing a vehicle, radar is not.

Radar could not differentiate the difference in speed between the two vehicles in that photo; they are too close together. Lidar can.

With regards to rear facing speed/red light cameras there is no radar/lidar technology used to detect speed. Take a look at the road and you can see where the loops are installed in each lane at pre-defined distances to enable speed to be recorded. That's how they determine which vehicle in which lane has sped or run a red light.

[fourseven]

May 2011 in Rivervale, LIDAR for sure. You'd struggle to find any older style gear in the metro area these days.

[Ryan1080]

Was actually thinking about this the other day, but more in terms of fucking with the cameras by placing a strip of IR LEDs around your number plates.

Go grab your remote, aim it at your camera and hold down a button and look at what you see. Try and replicate same thing around the number plate and camera couldn't get a clear picture you would think.

I tried doing that sometime ago, I've noticed the reflection off the plate was still coming through more clear than the IR light... unless you can somehow put IR lights on actual license plate, putting it around it will not work, it may mildly mask it, but most of the plate is still visible.

Was gonna go to jaycar and make an overlay with IR diodes to put over the plate, but haven't got around to it yet. From what I've seen with diodes around the plates, having enough of them on the plate itself should work...

Then again, I was testing it with my 500 dollar olympus, their cameras are worth a hundred times as much so you never know...

[JBAE]

http://blog.workingsi.com/2011/05/ir...o-blocker.html

[Ryan1080]

http://blog.workingsi.com/2011/05/ir...o-blocker.html

Link's not working dude :(

[Endless]

Say if 2 cars are in the frame, both speeding.. does the quicker one "win" or do both offenders get fined?

[Fukushima]

having enough of them on the plate itself should work...

Then again, I was testing it with my 500 dollar olympus, their cameras are worth a hundred times as much so you never know...

From what I read LED and laser diodes can be removed from a digital image relatively easily, something like remove the red layer and the image of the plate comes out just fine and bam you'd get done for trying to obscure it

[Ryan1080]

From what I read LED and laser diodes can be removed from a digital image relatively easily, something like remove the red layer and the image of the plate comes out just fine and bam you'd get done for trying to obscure it

Yeah, I figured it woudln't have been that easy to get around it, otherwise every second pingpingpingping would be doing it by now... ah well, back to the drawing board with ideas :(

[Buckets]

Yeah, I figured it woudln't have been that easy to get around it, otherwise every second pingpingpingping would be doing it by now... ah well, back to the drawing board with ideas :(

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/qS1eW3QlaQM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Where the fuck do you buy the magic membrane...

[Ryan1080]

Where can you get these??

[JBAE]

looks like a sheet of that smart/privacy glass?

[JBAE]

in process of tracking it down will let you know how i go

[TJ]

Just run no plates.

[Lump]

Say if 2 cars are in the frame, both speeding.. does the quicker one "win" or do both offenders get fined?
both get done

[matt_in_perth]

Hi SW33T,

can you get the high quality photos from here and post them:-

https://viewinfringement.police.wa.gov.au/

I need to see the frame on the photo. Sure it is a Poliscan (the laser speed cameras that have been out for just under a year)

The Poliscan operator manual is floating around the internet and there is a rule if the frame has 2 cars in it, then the photo is not valid as evidence.

See an example here:-
http://www.stopbigbrothermd.org/2011/03/citations-may-reveal-indications-of.html

This is not valid as evidence by the manufacture of the Poliscan speed cameras (Vitronic):

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-l6oOjXcU79s/TWzQgAORv9I/AAAAAAAAAZU/NBlZ5ljqOQA/s320/notvalid2.jpg

This frame is a calculated after processing from the laser beam reflections while it scans across the road - Hope this helps

[fourseven]

You can see in the image he posted where the far right of the box is, and it's only his car in it.

Usually if 2 cars are in the box the infringement isn't submitted.

[JBAE]

so two cars speeding side by side (same speed) will not get a fine?

[fourseven]

Not necessarily. If the camera flashes 2 cars speeding, and each car has the box around the necessary spots to identify the vehicle as speeding both will get a fine. But if for one of the vehicles impedes the box used to identify the other vehicle, the infringement usually wouldn't be sent.

[JBAE]

roger roger

[Yakky Bear]

read through this... http://www.radardetector.net/forums/laser-interceptor/70871-poliscan-rear-shot-tested-today.html

found some useful information on dual vehicle detection and when a vehicle is exempt from a fine etc...

[4AGE Sedan]

Little bit of a thread dig here but... If I get flashed going through a green light, doing about 40kph over, how fucked am I? (In reference to a fixed speed/red light camera)

[c4fgt]

>40 you're going to get hoon lawed. Pretty fucked.

[4AGE Sedan]

Ehhhhh, I'm hoping like hell i wasn't doing above 40 then. Its been 3 weeks since the incident, and I still haven't recieved anything yet. Will be the first fine I've gotten in 4 years of having my licence too.

Cheers for the input

[Torquen]

Nope >45k/h = hoon law.
<40km/h = $700 fine and 5 points.

You'll be OK if you've got points to spare.

Edit: I see you've got plenty of points. Looks like it'll just be your hip pocket that's a little lighter... better than losing your licence.

[ossie cossie]

I think i got flashed last week on Ried Hwy in the 60kph zone (roadworks) it was 9.30pm no body working and a red flash went off i was doing about 65kph in the traffic flow what can i expect?

[n1ghth4wk]

Yeah red flash will get you. $75 fine no demerits.

[BOSS 290]

I think i got flashed last week on Ried Hwy in the 60kph zone (roadworks) it was 9.30pm no body working and a red flash went off i was doing about 65kph in the traffic flow what can i expect?

Wait for notification, that's your best bet.

[Douche Bag]

Think I got done tonight on Green St. Was climbing the hill in the bubble doing 70ish in 60 zone and as I went past it flashed orange not red (night time). Was rolling back down to 60 which is the speed I went past it at. Does it take the speed a couple hundred metres before or the speed when it flashes?

Does this mean I got a ticket cause it flashed?

[n1ghth4wk]

Yeah if it flashed you got done. Now apparently if they don't flash you also get done :(

[Douche Bag]

Damnit.. Thanks.

[Macca]

Think I got done tonight on Green St. Was climbing the hill in the bubble doing 70ish in 60 zone and as I went past it flashed orange not red (night time). Was rolling back down to 60 which is the speed I went past it at. Does it take the speed a couple hundred metres before or the speed when it flashes?

Does this mean I got a ticket cause it flashed?

No you get the ticket because you were speeding :p

[MadDocker]

Sorry to dig up an old thread.

My old lady got her first speeding ticket in 28 years and the photos on the infringement were pretty shit. I logged on an got better copies which clearly shows the car but the white square is borderline with the licence plate and also doesn't have much front wheel in it.

Worth trying her luck or just pay?

Edit: Sorted.

[Lasoya]

Has part of the front wheel, number plate and the bottom of the template is below the front wheels. An example of a clear fine infringement. She can try and contest it but would probably not have much luck.

[MadDocker]

Thanks for that. Wasn't sure if it was supposed to have the bottom of the wheel in the square. Looks like she's paying $200.

[Andy51]

Speed cameras have a "cosine error'. This results when the speed camera is set off to the side of the vehicles travel. Most articles hint that this error is to the motorists benefit. I tend to disagree with this. When I did trigonometry, the angle formed between the speed camera's signal vector (both radar & lidar) and the vehicles direction vector indicates that the vehicles vector is shorter. To emphersise this, draw a 30/60/90 degree triangle. Position speed camera at the 60 degree angle and the car at the 30 degree angle, the resulting car vector will be towards the 90 degree angle. With a speed camera indicating a speed of 100 kph and using vs = cs x cos30 (vs = vehicle speed; cs =
s/camera speed) the true vehicle speed would be 86.6 kph. I therefore maintain that an officer setting up his equipment off a distance to the side of the road in an endeavour to hide it from motorists will book a lot of innocent drivers for speeding when they're not.

[Macca]

Speed cameras have a "cosine error'. This results when the speed camera is set off to the side of the vehicles travel. Most articles hint that this error is to the motorists benefit. I tend to disagree with this. When I did trigonometry, the angle formed between the speed camera's signal vector (both radar & lidar) and the vehicles direction vector indicates that the vehicles vector is shorter. To emphersise this, draw a 30/60/90 degree triangle. Position speed camera at the 60 degree angle and the car at the 30 degree angle, the resulting car vector will be towards the 90 degree angle. With a speed camera indicating a speed of 100 kph and using vs = cs x cos30 (vs = vehicle speed; cs =
s/camera speed) the true vehicle speed would be 86.6 kph. I therefore maintain that an officer setting up his equipment off a distance to the side of the road in an endeavour to hide it from motorists will book a lot of innocent drivers for speeding when they're not.

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRKkTEzC7ttENKwqk306zaRCC4Dj2sov G-ZvtRQz6NFcKZHwsDZyuCVboPo

[Phildo]

Speed cameras have a "cosine error'. This results when the speed camera is set off to the side of the vehicles travel. Most articles hint that this error is to the motorists benefit. I tend to disagree with this. When I did trigonometry, the angle formed between the speed camera's signal vector (both radar & lidar) and the vehicles direction vector indicates that the vehicles vector is shorter. To emphersise this, draw a 30/60/90 degree triangle. Position speed camera at the 60 degree angle and the car at the 30 degree angle, the resulting car vector will be towards the 90 degree angle. With a speed camera indicating a speed of 100 kph and using vs = cs x cos30 (vs = vehicle speed; cs =
s/camera speed) the true vehicle speed would be 86.6 kph. I therefore maintain that an officer setting up his equipment off a distance to the side of the road in an endeavour to hide it from motorists will book a lot of innocent drivers for speeding when they're not.

This.

I was thinking the exact same thing the other day.

[Satan]

cosine? Vector? Moron can't even spell emphasise

[huggy_b]

Give Andy51 the benefit of the doubt, he might be selling something good.

[S85FI]

Its the off set angle that determines the speeding vehicle.
The below also needs to mention speed =distance over time. The faster vehicle will cover more triangle space. ..in a shorter time.walaaaaa speeding vehicle detected regardless how many cars are on the road.

[crabman]

Do the operators have to enter a fair few details into the camera for it to make these factors. Do they keep a log of all distance from kerb, distance from center line etc, angle to road, bend radius etc. etc. etc.

Or are the cameras measure a vehicles physical location in space, then measuring it again a certain time later to determine it is speeding. Because the handhelds surely can't do that and what's to say the angle they were used on was correct?

[Lukey]

Got done by a red light camera the other day.
Pulled up at the worng turn, I was meant to take the next one. Straight still had a green, so I put my indicator on and pulled into a gap to kick on.

Have I got a leg to stand on getting off this?

http://i.imgur.com/bcgUhdi.jpg

[MadDocker]

Unfortunately not mate. They reckon you need to make the turn, turn around up the road and go back. Can't cross that solid white line.

It's bullshit I reckon but that's what they're going to say.

[Sensible]

What he said^^^^

Also illegal to change lanes in an intersection

[Lukey]

pingpingpingping

Figured that would be the case.

Oh well live and learn I guess

[Greg Rust]

I got a similar one recently stopped to turn left at red light, lights go green except red left turn arrow. I went then braked but wheels had already gone over and Pingu $300.

[siladee]

What he said^^^^

Also illegal to change lanes in an intersection

That's what I thought, was listening to the traffic officer on 6pr a while back and he said different. I still don't because I haven't looked into it properly.

[dmanvan]

I got a similar one recently stopped to turn left at red light, lights go green except red left turn arrow. I went then braked but wheels had already gone over and Pingu $300.

did both wheels go through?? as I am sure when they redid the legislation there was something about being able to redress the situation if you had not totally entered the intersection..... was one of the reasons I got told as to now having fine for amber and for red. ie can't pull up before the line in time and you partially enter you can back that baby up..?

:eek:

[Greg Rust]

Both over but only just as I stopped when I'd realised what I'd done, I went and read the legislation and it was clearly worded so as to ping me.
$300 but no points is a strange one.

[S85FI]

That's what I thought, was listening to the traffic officer on 6pr a while back and he said different. I still don't because I haven't looked into it properly.

It's easy can't go in a direction different to what the road marking states. As it was a right turn only lane can only go right. Camera tripped because the light phasing said no through movement permitted in a right only turning lane.

[TJ]

Solid white line, you can't change lanes at that point.

[Sensible]

Anyone have a link to the guidelines into setting up mobile cameras?

A mate got done today coming into a school zone and he is accepting that he was speeding but the camera operator was set up on a footpath and right next to an intersection obscuring peoples sight coming out of the side street