View Full Version : Minor Case Claims - Magistrates Court
Anahera
10-01-2011, 12:01 PM
Anyone here know much about Law and minor case claims?
If so....
Can a big corporation e.g. HBF take a person through the magistrates court under a minor case claim?
I thought it wouldnt be fair on that person being sued as the big corporation have resources to use and that person has to represent themselves....
Daisy
10-01-2011, 12:05 PM
both parties have to represent themselves, no lawyers as far as i know.
what have you gotten yourself into??
Anahera
10-01-2011, 12:26 PM
Its not my fault! hahaha
The guy that hit my skyline over 2yrs ago, going to pick up Adrian from Andys, well his insurance company is suing me for damages to his car, basically what they are out of pocket for.
They are suing me for neglence, claiming I did a u-turn in front of their client.
Which is un-true.
Now im getting dragged through the courts because he didnt watch where he was going.... ggrr
let your insurance deal with it.
AGIT8D
10-01-2011, 12:31 PM
Its not my fault! hahaha
The guy that hit my skyline over 2yrs ago, going to pick up Adrian from Andys, well his insurance company is suing me for damages to his car, basically what they are out of pocket for.
They are suing me for neglence, claiming I did a u-turn in front of their client.
Which is un-true.
Now im getting dragged through the courts because he didnt watch where he was going.... ggrr
That's up for the po-po to decide when you lodge a crash report. Did you? What was the outcome?
both parties have to represent themselves, no lawyers as far as i know.
what have you gotten yourself into??
From what I know that is the case as well... but can a corporation take you to the Magistrates court? If they have to represent themselves, how does a corporation represent itself? Through an agent, which in this case will be their lawyer? Correct me if I'm wrong but that's just my logic
Ryan1080
10-01-2011, 12:41 PM
From what I know that is the case as well... but can a corporation take you to the Magistrates court? If they have to represent themselves, how does a corporation represent itself? Through an agent, which in this case will be their lawyer? Correct me if I'm wrong but that's just my logic
In-house lawyer? Most medium/big companies have in-house lawyers...
HBF would definately have a massive army of in-house lawyers!
Anahera
10-01-2011, 12:41 PM
let your insurance deal with it.
I cant, it was mandatory that I attended the Pre-trial by the courts. I cant have anyone else deal withit due to it being a minor case claim.
Anahera
10-01-2011, 12:42 PM
That's up for the po-po to decide when you lodge a crash report. Did you? What was the outcome?
I lodged the crash report that day and I heard nothing from it.
Anahera
10-01-2011, 12:43 PM
From what I know that is the case as well... but can a corporation take you to the Magistrates court? If they have to represent themselves, how does a corporation represent itself? Through an agent, which in this case will be their lawyer? Correct me if I'm wrong but that's just my logic
Thats what I was thinking. They had 2 guys with HBF shirts on in the pre-trial today. But I dont know what their job role is within HBF. A lawyer cannot represent you through Minor Case Claims...
SimonR32
10-01-2011, 12:59 PM
What happened in the accident? Obviously the damage would have to indicate you could have done a u-turn for them to chase you?!?
Anahera
10-01-2011, 01:09 PM
[My version of the events]
I indicated right, slowed down commenced to turn right into a driveway and the other car has hit my rear quarter panel, wheel & bumper of my car. It has flicked me around to the other side of the road facing the other way.
[Other drivers version]
I have veared left (apparently into another street) and turned, to commence a u-turn in front of him. They said something about the guy trying to overtake me.... isnt that illegal?
upgarage
10-01-2011, 01:12 PM
Police report should detail who is at fault.
Didnt they send a letter of demand before proceeding to court?
SimonR32
10-01-2011, 01:12 PM
Was it someone you knows driveway (eg. were you turning into it for a reason)? Also was there actually a side road on the left to veer into?
Anahera
10-01-2011, 01:23 PM
The reason for turning is irrelevant as i hadnt completed it anway.
There is a road on the left hand side, but I didnt turn into. Either way I indicated and slowed down, he has a duty of care to watch what is happening in front of him.
SimonR32
10-01-2011, 01:34 PM
If you had turned into the road on the left you would be classified as not on the road any more and then have to give way to traffic already on the road!
If you don't have a reason for turning into that driveway then they can easily assume that you were in fact actually doing a u-turn so it is actually very important.
As it stands even though I would love to tell you otherwise I think they will probably have a case... Even me wanting to be on your side and you only giving your side of the story I would rule against you :(
upgarage
10-01-2011, 01:35 PM
is this a single lane road?
DCEVO
10-01-2011, 01:37 PM
Without sufficient evidence from the police accident reports they will have to prove otherwise
Very hard to do without witnesses (and passengers cannot testify against or for you )
Do you have a copy of the accident report to take into the court ??
Does the other party have an signed accident report from as evidence against you ??
If either arent signed they are not admissable in a court of law
Bomber
10-01-2011, 01:42 PM
The reason for turning is irrelevant as i hadnt completed it anway.
There is a road on the left hand side, but I didnt turn into. Either way I indicated and slowed down, he has a duty of care to watch what is happening in front of him.
Except if you did do what he claims and used that extra part of the road being the intersection to complete a u-turn without having to do a 3 point turn. I can see exactly how that would've played out as it does happen a lot.
However, he has hit you from the rear making contact with everything from the rear bumper to rear wheel, and on a skyline that's a fair parcel of real estate, akin to the side of a barn. For him to make that sort of an impact you would need to be at more of an angle than simply pulling towards the centre of the road and commencing a turn.
So either he was trying to go around you, was not looking where he was going due to sending a text or whatever and had veered well into the centre of the road as you claim, or it happend just as the other driver claims.
No wonder the insurance company wants to get to the bottom of it because one of you is telling big porky pies. Agreed, he has a duty of care to watch what is going on around him. Good luck and for your sake I hope it isn't you who is bullshitting because it will get much worse for you if that is true.
/end
SimonR32
10-01-2011, 01:52 PM
Except if you did do what he claims and used that extra part of the road being the intersection to complete a u-turn without having to do a 3 point turn. I can see exactly how that would've played out as it does happen a lot.
However, he has hit you from the rear making contact with everything from the rear bumper to rear wheel, and on a skyline that's a fair parcel of real estate, akin to the side of a barn. For him to make that sort of an impact you would need to be at more of an angle than simply pulling towards the centre of the road and commencing a turn.
So either he was trying to go around you, was not looking where he was going due to sending a text or whatever and had veered well into the centre of the road as you claim, or it happend just as the other driver claims.
No wonder the insurance company wants to get to the bottom of it because one of you is telling big porky pies. Agreed, he has a duty of care to watch what is going on around him. Good luck and for your sake I hope it isn't you who is bullshitting because it will get much worse for you if that is true.
/end
Pretty much nail on the head of what I was trying to get across!
Anahera
10-01-2011, 01:58 PM
If you had turned into the road on the left you would be classified as not on the road any more and then have to give way to traffic already on the road!
If you don't have a reason for turning into that driveway then they can easily assume that you were in fact actually doing a u-turn so it is actually very important.
As it stands even though I would love to tell you otherwise I think they will probably have a case... Even me wanting to be on your side and you only giving your side of the story I would rule against you :(
I was turning into a drive-way, I didnt veer into another street.
SimonR32
10-01-2011, 02:05 PM
I was turning into a drive-way, I didnt veer into another street.
I know this, but the judge making the decision on the case is going to want a reason for you turning into that driveway to make your story plausible.
If you had no reason to turn into the driveway then it's going to appear just as likely to a judge that you just made up the story to get away with making a mistake
Anahera
10-01-2011, 02:07 PM
Except if you did do what he claims and used that extra part of the road being the intersection to complete a u-turn without having to do a 3 point turn. I can see exactly how that would've played out as it does happen a lot.
However, he has hit you from the rear making contact with everything from the rear bumper to rear wheel, and on a skyline that's a fair parcel of real estate, akin to the side of a barn. For him to make that sort of an impact you would need to be at more of an angle than simply pulling towards the centre of the road and commencing a turn.
So either he was trying to go around you, was not looking where he was going due to sending a text or whatever and had veered well into the centre of the road as you claim, or it happend just as the other driver claims.
No wonder the insurance company wants to get to the bottom of it because one of you is telling big porky pies. Agreed, he has a duty of care to watch what is going on around him. Good luck and for your sake I hope it isn't you who is bullshitting because it will get much worse for you if that is true.
/end
I dont know if he veered into the centre of the road I am only assuming this, I wasnt watching what he was doing, I was watching where I was going. There were no tyre marks on the road either so he didnt even hit the brakes.
It was a one way road (not double laned), with a medium strip kerb thingy in the middle (further down).
Besides this isnt my question, my question was;
Can a big corporation e.g. HBF take a person through the magistrates court under a minor case claim?
I thought it wouldnt be fair on that person being sued as the big corporation have resources to use and that person has to represent themselves....
Anahera
10-01-2011, 02:09 PM
I know this, but the judge making the decision on the case is going to want a reason for you turning into that driveway to make your story plausible.
If you had no reason to turn into the driveway then it's going to appear just as likely to a judge that you just made up the story to get away with making a mistake
It hasnt gone to trial yet, it was pre-trial and my lawyers will tell me what to say.
SircatmaN
10-01-2011, 02:14 PM
It doesn't matter what you were doing, he hit you from behind. Even if you reversed into him if he was stopped he will be affair because he needs to e watching yourtail lights and act accordingly. If you reverse he must reverse, if you brake he must brake ad leave a car length(he must see the bottom of your tyres).
Don't give in. Look up legislation and road rules on the net and see if you can find similar cases to use as precident.
He hit you an the damage to the front of his car is proof, even if you were Doug a U turn he hit the back end of your car meaning he wasn't payig attention.
If you want I might be able to look up some similar cases if I get time.
If all else fails use the chewbacca defense and lawyer these muthafuckers.
RING YOUR INSURANCE COMPANY
They will give you advise or provide a lawyer.
Anahera
10-01-2011, 02:35 PM
Ive Got a Lawyer-through insurance but they cant act on my behalf :(
I'm trying to avoid going to court and taking time out of my 'new(still on probation) job, unlike my court friendly, know all judges on a first name basis fiance' hahaha
Can you see my point though of a big corporation going after one 'kinda little' person.? - Not Fair
Yeah - money. They arnt a charity.
Anahera
10-01-2011, 02:40 PM
It just sux, when you do the right thing and you still get a kick up the arse for it.
Kaido
10-01-2011, 02:48 PM
when you lodge your police report did they give you some sort of number?
If they did ring up and you should be able to grab a copy of the report
Anahera
10-01-2011, 02:54 PM
Yeh I have the police report number.
I rang them to get the copy and I had to go through a document release centre and you have to apply to get the copy. I am still waiting for them to send it to me.
newbie101
10-01-2011, 04:24 PM
Your first question - AFAIK you CAN have someone act on your behalf in small claims. I went through this a few years ago with a landlord, and they had the option of having the real estate company who managed the property attend the tribunal on their behalf. The only stipulation was that the agent for the party is not allowed to be a lawyer, ergo HBF can send their office secretary to act on their behalf if they want.
As for the actual accident, I was in pretty much the same situation as you a few years back (except someone did actually do a u-turn in front of me and wrote my car off) and the only thing that made the other insurer step up, was a statement from a crash repairer that specified the actual angle of the 2 cars at impact (and ergo, their position at the time) as the other driver pulled the "I was turning and he tried to overtake me" defense.
PLEASE do your homework on this, and dont rely on lawyers. I tried that the first time I went through small claims and came close to losing out big time. Ironically, it was someone I met through a car forum that made me double check what I had been told.
Anahera
10-01-2011, 06:57 PM
Thanks, thats why I thought I'd ask
GhostFc3s
10-01-2011, 07:18 PM
If your insured, and your using lawyers through them, then they will pay any costs.
That being said if your talking shit and havent gone through insurance, then yes a big corporation can sue your ass, and its not in small claims, its in the normal civil court.
That being said im not sure how much you have discussed this with HBF, they will usually only take this to court as a last resort.
Im thinking you have just ignored their letters over the last 2 years and its come to this.
eScoRt20
10-01-2011, 07:28 PM
i thought the whole point of paying insurance is to avoid this sort of thing? shouldn't they be sueing your insurance company?
GhostFc3s
10-01-2011, 07:29 PM
Nope they sue the driver directly, the driver is the one liable for the costs (if he is liable that is).
That being said, if you are insured and get sued, they will represent you, as long as you tell them and pay your excess etc...
If this was going through insurance i doubt it would have got to court.
Anahera
11-01-2011, 03:20 PM
If your insured, and your using lawyers through them, then they will pay any costs.
That being said if your talking shit and havent gone through insurance, then yes a big corporation can sue your ass, and its not in small claims, its in the normal civil court.
That being said im not sure how much you have discussed this with HBF, they will usually only take this to court as a last resort.
Im thinking you have just ignored their letters over the last 2 years and its come to this.
I'm not talking shit, I have taken it to my insurance, they said because its filed under the 'small claims court' I have to attend.
My insurance said they are going to pay for it no matter what, but thats not the issue. The issue is, even though I have insurance I am still getting dragged through the courts, when I was found not at fault.
I havent received any letters over the past 2 years on anything about this. My insurance rang me up early last year and asked exactly what happened again; I told them what happened and they said;good thats what we have here on your statement. I hadnt heard anything since.
Anahera
11-01-2011, 03:22 PM
i thought the whole point of paying insurance is to avoid this sort of thing? shouldn't they be sueing your insurance company?
EXACTLY!! This is the thing that is grinding my gears!!
This is why I want to know if a big corporation can take a person through the small claims court...... it seems a bit unfair right?
Anahera
11-01-2011, 03:26 PM
Nope they sue the driver directly, the driver is the one liable for the costs (if he is liable that is).
That being said, if you are insured and get sued, they will represent you, as long as you tell them and pay your excess etc...
If this was going through insurance i doubt it would have got to court.
Pre-trail was yesterday and there was no resolution, so it could go futher to trial.
My insurance cant represent me because its been filed under small claims division and not the general division. I have to represent myself.
Confused much?
If you have a contract with your insurance company, there is absolutely no reason why you can't get them to represent you in small claims.. just write a letter and sign it, giving them authority to act on your behalf, and get them to take it to the tribunal with them as proof.
Either that or don't attend.. when the default judgement is ruled against you and you receive a nice letter in the mail saying "pay up", then write back saying "it's with my insurer, talk to the hand bitches".
Anahera
11-01-2011, 07:49 PM
The fuckers told me I had to attend! Argh
Thanks for the advice Joe!
mr_rotary
11-01-2011, 08:43 PM
Get in contact with the Insurance Ombudsman and find out through them what you need to do.
Ahhh I wouldn't go off just my advice..
Its only from my experience working in asset management, where I can represent one of my clients based on a contract they have with me, which allows me to do that!
I would think that its the same when it comes to insurance issues!!
AGIT8D
12-01-2011, 08:36 AM
Ahhh I wouldn't go off just my advice..
Its only from my experience working in asset management, where I can represent one of my clients based on a contract they have with me, which allows me to do that!
I would think that its the same when it comes to insurance issues!!
You may be able to represent them, but you aren't a lawyer, correct? I think what she is saying is that in this particular tribunal, you cannot have a laywer represent you.. But that is certainly not to say a representative from the insurance company who is not a laywer could not speak on the client's behalf. This may be the best solution, or just dish out some cbf and let the insurance company cough up.
Also - you said you were found not at fault, Anahera? Where did you get that documentation from? Seems that's all you need to avoid any more hassle.
Thats right.. I'm not a lawyer so I can represent my client there, especially if they're interstate like a lot of them are!
I'm sure an insurance company isn't a lawyer either, so they should be able to do the same.
Anahera
12-01-2011, 10:47 AM
You may be able to represent them, but you aren't a lawyer, correct? I think what she is saying is that in this particular tribunal, you cannot have a laywer represent you.. But that is certainly not to say a representative from the insurance company who is not a laywer could not speak on the client's behalf. This may be the best solution, or just dish out some cbf and let the insurance company cough up.
Also - you said you were found not at fault, Anahera? Where did you get that documentation from? Seems that's all you need to avoid any more hassle.
Correct you cant have a lawyer represent you. My insurance company never offered to represent me, I think Just Cars is based interstate. Insurance company has told me they have to cough up either way it goes.
Yes I was found not at fault and I have requested that information from the Police but you have to go through their document release centre and give them a copy of my drivers licence etc to get that information sent to me. I am still waiting for it.
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