Need Career Advice: Management

[PERFORMANCE07]

Hi everyone i need advice if anyone knows anything about the following-

I got a letter saying that i have been accepted into Cert IV Business,

I am planning to go further to do a bachelor of degree for Management.

But i am not sure these days on how i will actually ever get accepted as a manager as everyone wants previous experience.

I have called around many car dealerships asking if i can do work experience or help out in wateva position but no one seems to give a damn.

So what i am asking is if anyone has any ideas on how i can actually start work experience or just generally get into managment once i finish Uni...?

Has anyone had a similar problem and can help out....

Thanks people

[Lmx]

Start at the bottom

[Ryan1080]

You want to be a manager of what? What do you want to manage?

Pardon my ignorance, (I've actually always wondered that), but I was always under impression that a 'manager' would have to have some prior experience in the thing that s/he is managing. So for instance, an:

-human resource manager
-construction manager
-sales manager
-tax manager
-marketing manager
-survey manager
-operations manager
-legal dept manager
-public relations manager
-audit manager
-environmental manager
-engineering manager
-mine manager
-factory manager

and so on have to have an idea about the subject they are 'managing'.

No offense, but I doubt a company is going to hire a graduate 'manager' with no experience, in a manager position, who just studied management, but has no qualifications/experience in an area s/he manages. So far all managers I have met have qualifications and/or experience in the area they manage, rather than straight out of textbook.

My suggestion is, decide what you want to manage, study that area, then get a post-grad qualification or similar towards management role few years later.

[Ryan1080]

Start at the bottom

ROFL!!

I want to be the CEO. Can I be one straight out of tafe please? I got good grades n shit :D

[Macca]

Hi everyone i need advice if anyone knows anything about the following-

I got a letter saying that i have been accepted into Cert IV Business,

I am planning to go further to do a bachelor of degree for Management.

But i am not sure these days on how i will actually ever get accepted as a manager as everyone wants previous experience.

I have called around many car dealerships asking if i can do work experience or help out in wateva position but no one seems to give a damn.

So what i am asking is if anyone has any ideas on how i can actually start work experience or just generally get into managment once i finish Uni...?

Has anyone had a similar problem and can help out....

Thanks people

So go do your Cert 4. Go get a job as a sales assistant. If automotive is what you want go work in spare parts (NOT SUPERCHEAP). Talk to the manager there and tell them you are studying cert 4 and if they are any good use them as a role model type person.

As previously said even after you do your cert there isnt a lot of hope of walking in to any management role within a reputable business.

[Lmx]

Get lower ranked job -> start studying -> make it aware you are studying -> excel & out perform rest of those at your level -> wait for some kunt to leave and step up

[morgazmatron]

i started doing a business degree last year. Realised that it doesn't get you anywhere and switched. Unless you match a management degree up with something else i personally didn't find it worth it. But yeah as Ryan 1080 said it depends what you want to manage.

For the record i switched from ecu to curtin to a construction management and economics degree. Love it.


also if you want to go to uni why wouldn't you just go straight there?

[Frenchy]

Thought about doing your Cert IV in Frontline Management 1st?

[ben351]

get a position as a manager first then make company pay for your course :)

[mys1]

Stay out of the automotive industry if you want be a succesful manager.

You need industry experience to manage a team of people..

Do your cert IV then get a job, work your way up into a management roll, do bachelor part time, take a more senior management role then.

[Joe]

B.Comm in Mgmt actually has nothing to do with being a manager, you need experience in your field to do that.

Management degrees are more about business improvement, development and growth both intrinsically and extrinsically.

Also if you're not a fan of theory and essay writing, don't do it. I'm a fan and I've now completed my B.Comm in Mgmt and Mktg. And a Post Grad Cert in Leadership and Mgmt, with a scope to complete my Masters.

All that and I'm still not a manager in my field of study!

[stumps.]

i started doing a business degree last year. Realised that it doesn't get you anywhere and switched. Unless you match a management degree up with something else i personally didn't find it worth it. But yeah as Ryan 1080 said it depends what you want to manage.

For the record i switched from ecu to curtin to a construction management and economics degree. Love it.


also if you want to go to uni why wouldn't you just go straight there?

Quite possibly the stupidest thing I have ever heard and an insult to more than one person on here.

[SircatmaN]

Lol so many people want to walk out of uni straight into a top job, lambo and mansion haha.

[stormtrooper]

Gotta follow the "unwritten rule of the road..."

[Ryan1080]

Quite possibly the stupidest thing I have ever heard and an insult to more than one person on here.

'Business' is such a general term, looking at the list of areas you can do your bachelor of commerce in, there's like good 30 or 40 different things, and some of them indeed are a fail (marketing is one), while others are very good (finance) for example.

[Joe]

some of them indeed are a fail (marketing is one)

See, now that is stupid.

Marketing is not what everyone perceives it to be. I took an interest in market research and thats why my double major went down that path, along with management.

It opened a door for me to specialise in shopping centre and retail management, where research is paramount to understanding the market conditions in which shopping centres operate in.

I now do this as a job until I go back into the family business (the ultimate goal for my degree was to run my own business with enough management knowledge to not have to bring anyone in as a consultant or manager).. my marketing knowledge allows me to run my own campaigns and target my customers effectively, for very little money (most of the money in marketing is "consulting" costs).

[Dagon]

I want to be the CEO. Can I be one straight out of tafe please? I got good grades n shit :DIn the words of a teenage Scrooge McDuck, applying for his first job in an episode of Duck Tales from 20 years ago:
"I'd like to be President of this bank. I'd like a top salary, pension plan, and two-week paid vacation every year. Dinnae worry; I'm qualified, I was m'eigth-grade class Treasurer."
-- cut to scene of Scrooge being turfed out and landing on his arse in the gutter --
"I quickly found that the bottom is where y'start in life."

[Anahera]

You cant just walk into management without having the experience behind you. I started at a Supermarket and got my Cert IV in Retail Management, went on to do my Cert IV in Business (Human Resources Management) and now I am a HR Consultant.

You need to work your way up, show initiative and leadership skills. If you work for a good company they will recognise these skills and conduct internal training and organise a succession plan in order for you to work your way up in the company/industry.

[Ryan1080]

See, now that is stupid.

Marketing is not what everyone perceives it to be. I took an interest in market research and thats why my double major went down that path, along with management.

It opened a door for me to specialise in shopping centre and retail management, where research is paramount to understanding the market conditions in which shopping centres operate in.

I now do this as a job until I go back into the family business (the ultimate goal for my degree was to run my own business with enough management knowledge to not have to bring anyone in as a consultant or manager).. my marketing knowledge allows me to run my own campaigns and target my customers effectively, for very little money (most of the money in marketing is "consulting" costs).

I over-generalised a bit, I meant it more from a future job prospects etc. Perth is very small when it comes to marketing jobs, I personally know a few people from uni days who regretted doing marketing because there wasn't that many jobs around, or they found they needed to go do further study to be even considered for a lower end marketing job. Things could have changed since though.

Horses for courses I guess, I couldn't stomach the Management 100 class in my first semester at uni, was bored shitless haha.

[ben351]

id just like to say,

I was expelled from high school and didnt graduate. and have not completed any further schooling since.

I worked 6yrs in various stores and transport roles getting experience and industry insight.

Did some Sales work as a salesperson at Covs and got some office experience up i.e. Admin and Banking clerk.

Worked as data entry person and storeman @ Water corp.

Got a job in recruitment.

Started from bottom – worked to Senior Consultant.

Changed companies and accepted an On-Site Account manager role with SCT Transport as i had experience in recruitment and transport and logistics ( my back ground as per above )

Changed companies and accepted a Senior Recruiter role with promise of Branch Manager position avail to me in the next 6 months. Then they will put me through a few Business Courses.

Then from there I will break balls to grow the company to a point where we expand and open new branches and then I will be a Regional Manager > General Manager of Blue Collar Divsion > Stake Holder in the company.

People that know me, know I’m not the smartest bloke in the world but i put 110% into my work and I know enough about my industry to get to where i need to go.

What my point is ... is you don’t need an education to get a good job ... common sense and putting in the hard yards doesn’t go unnoticed. Don’t expect to go to uni and then have everything handed to you.

START AT THE BOTTOM AND WORK YOUR WAY UP !!!

Experience > *

[stumps.]

I did a marketing / management degree. You are correct in saying the entry level marketing positions are shit paying and shit kicking.

People need to start somewhere.

Personally since leaving uni I have worked for a Perth based AFL team (in the actual office not one of those suck off companies that say they are part of the team) and now work for a major radio station.

I work 30-40 hours a week based in Perth and earn near on 6 figures. I'm 23 years old.

Other people i know who graduated with the same degree as me are in similar jobs with similar pay and perks.

You would be very stupid to put all your eggs in one basket and not do a double major. I hope this is what you are refering to. As Joe said knowing the marketing side of business is very handy now and in the future.

EDIT: as Ben says above work ethic also plays a major role. You can earn good money in any job aslong as you are good at what you do.

[yeahlow34]

...

Great advice. You can't TEACH management skills, and that isn't what management courses are for. It is something you build via experience and knowledge.

What did you get expelled for Ben :)?

[cplagz]

Like Ben said - recruitment is a good start to get into a management role, and if you are dedicated and work hard enough, its one of the only jobs (whitecollar) you can earn 100K+ with no degrees.

[Joe]

People that know me, know I’m not the smartest bloke in the world but i put 110% into my work and I know enough about my industry to get to where i need to go.

Not just that, but your epic turds are something I aspire to.. I'm still not sure how you shit so much, but wow.

[Adr3naL1N]

Its pretty simple..you cant just walk into a management postion and expect big bucks with just a degree/certificate, thats a small part and experience is the rest.

Best this is to decide what industry you want to work in, find a job down the bottom end being a shit kicker or whatever and work your ass off, show committement and later the rewards will come, you have to work your way up, start at the bottom, you gain experience. thats what important, worh your way through the levels. Once they see that you can work well, youve got the degree or whatever, then they will consider you, it takes time.

i did a cert III in retail operations and a cert IV in retail management, did it through workplace training in the heavy autmotive industry, worked in sales for the last 8 years, in both external and through workshop purchasing, and am finally now getting into a management postion, taken 8 years but been well worth it.

[S13]

if you want to do work experience or similar you gotta realise 1000's of people are ringing places etc

turn up to each place, yes hard I know, but face to face makes a MASSIVE difference ! even if you get in there just to ask for a meeting not actually have one there and then but possibily make a time at a later date etc

Once in there get a name .... and follow up visits with a phone call to that person or another visit.

Face to face is the way to go

[Fukushima]

needs a degree in managing expectations first

[johnnyrx7]

Good advice s13.

BUT as a Parts manager of one of the larger Holden dealerships I get annoyed with face to face daily.. would much prefer a call to arrange a meeting

If you want to get into management you NEED experience in the field.. start at the bottom, work to be the assistant manager, once there the opportunities to become Manager in other businesses become plentifull.

actually fuck it, want my job?

[e46pwa]

Lol so many people want to walk out of uni straight into a top job, lambo and mansion haha.

But that's what my mum told me :slap:

[ben351]

Great advice. You can't TEACH management skills, and that isn't what management courses are for. It is something you build via experience and knowledge.

What did you get expelled for Ben :)?

broke a good behaviour bond they forced me to sign at the begining of yr 12 ... attendance issues ... sexual harrassment on student teachers ... defacing teachers cars.

[ben351]

if you want to do work experience or similar you gotta realise 1000's of people are ringing places etc

turn up to each place, yes hard I know, but face to face makes a MASSIVE difference ! even if you get in there just to ask for a meeting not actually have one there and then but possibily make a time at a later date etc

Once in there get a name .... and follow up visits with a phone call to that person or another visit.

Face to face is the way to go

are you a Business Development Manager ?

lol

[S13]

nope lol

in finance ... we have people expecting the world from a letter etc wanting a leg up to get into the industry but if someone has the balls to ring, then come in to see us and then ring again they might get a gursey for work experience or a call back in front of everyone else for something that might come up

its what I did to get in back in the day... then basically worked full time for nearly 3 months for free before i got a gig friggin opening letters and basically data entry not even at that company but i had some experience and showed a bitta nouse and that was with 2 degrees (which as stated although good really doesnt mean shit these days.. all it does is allow you to get an intereview possibly)

[RELEASE]

nope lol

in finance ... we have people expecting the world from a letter etc wanting a leg up to get into the industry but if someone has the balls to ring, then come in to see us and then ring again they might get a gursey for work experience or a call back in front of everyone else for something that might come up

its what I did to get in back in the day... then basically worked full time for nearly 3 months for free before i got a gig friggin opening letters and basically data entry not even at that company but i had some experience and showed a bitta nouse and that was with 2 degrees (which as stated although good really doesnt mean shit these days.. all it does is allow you to get an intereview possibly)so......got any jobs free?

brother finished Bachelor of Commerce Double major Property & Finance and is looking for work???

[S13]

lol - can of worms much

unfortuntely not we got enough fixed cost staff atm - only revenue writers

anyway back on topic....

keep at it OP

[Macca]

Good advice s13.

BUT as a Parts manager of one of the larger Holden dealerships I get annoyed with face to face daily.. would much prefer a call to arrange a meeting

If you want to get into management you NEED experience in the field.. start at the bottom, work to be the assistant manager, once there the opportunities to become Manager in other businesses become plentifull.

actually fuck it, want my job?

Im totally on the other end of the scale. I would prefer people to come in and see me face to face. I make a pretty good judgement of people at 1st glance. Also it cuts all the bullshit of people spinning shit over the phone. Non prepared answers are extremely difficult to fabricate when your potential employer is looking back at you.

The thing is about face meetings is if there is no jobs going yet you present 110% there is a high probability that a position will open up for you.

[morgazmatron]

Quite possibly the stupidest thing I have ever heard and an insult to more than one person on here.

yeah sorry probably a bad choice of words. Didnt mean to offend. What i was meaning is that a business degree is a very broad one, so narrowing it down is the way to go. Or do it in conjunction with another degree.

Im still doing a sort of business like degree. So wasnt ripping on anyone.

[mys1]

Too many Chiefs... not enough indians....

[Atomic_FD]

Good advice s13.

BUT as a Parts manager of one of the larger Holden dealerships I get annoyed with face to face daily.. would much prefer a call to arrange a meeting

If you want to get into management you NEED experience in the field.. start at the bottom, work to be the assistant manager, once there the opportunities to become Manager in other businesses become plentifull.

actually fuck it, want my job?

LOL!

But so tru and a good piece of advice.

The company i work for has been recruiting "outsiders" for the last year, and well... they last 3 months then bail. Expecting someone to come in off the street and learn, perform, and improve a workplace at the same time is outrageous.

I've hung around long enough now that I've been taken into consideration for Inventory Manager which is good, I'd like to see a blow in do this job with no experience.

[PERFORMANCE07]

Thanks alot people some really great advice there.

But i guess i should ask the question now, how should i try to get "work experience" or anything similar.

Also i have noticed that most places ask for 3+ years of experience but where do i get this "experience" if no one wants to hire me?

I have personally gone and spoke face to face with many managers and called about if i can do work experience for free or what ever so that i learn more about it... but no luck.

I'd like to try and get into a car dealership to manage sales etc but how do i step into the company at a lower level and get higher up? what could i do?

Or maybe i should wait and finish uni first haha before stressing.

I'm starting to have doubts about this whole thing :{

[redline07]

If you're doing a degree then I dare say management level at a dealership won't be what you imagine it is. The is not a terrible amount of 'management' that gets done. If you're liked by upper management, the manufacturer and can sell, you'll probably be ok. If however you do want a job in the industry, start in sales and do that for a few years.

[johnnyrx7]

Thanks alot people some really great advice there.

But i guess i should ask the question now, how should i try to get "work experience" or anything similar.

Also i have noticed that most places ask for 3+ years of experience but where do i get this "experience" if no one wants to hire me?

I have personally gone and spoke face to face with many managers and called about if i can do work experience for free or what ever so that i learn more about it... but no luck.

I'd like to try and get into a car dealership to manage sales etc but how do i step into the company at a lower level and get higher up? what could i do?

Or maybe i should wait and finish uni first haha before stressing.

I'm starting to have doubts about this whole thing :{

If your interested in spare parts, send me a pm and come see me.. i havent got anything available at the moment. BUT i will gladly talk to some of the other parts managers in the group IF you present well.

[joshg123]

I started as a floor sweeper, emptied bins and cleaned up oil spills. Worked hard to get a better job, switched jobs to a dealer and gained some experience there, came back to my current job as a 2ic and gradually took on more rolls to be a workshop manager. The next step up for me would be a senior service advisor at a dealership or a junior service manager...

You need to know the product bigtime in this industry, have seen many people come in at the top not knowing what its like at the bottom and they all fail.

[Ryan1080]

You need to know the product bigtime in this industry, have seen many people come in at the top not knowing what its like at the bottom and they all fail.

Amen to that. A lot of corporations adhere to that. For instance, Woolies. In order to move up to the higher up positions you have to have started on the floor of the supermarket first.

[johnnyrx7]

I started as a floor sweeper, emptied bins and cleaned up oil spills. Worked hard to get a better job, switched jobs to a dealer and gained some experience there, came back to my current job as a 2ic and gradually took on more rolls to be a workshop manager. The next step up for me would be a senior service advisor at a dealership or a junior service manager...

You need to know the product bigtime in this industry, have seen many people come in at the top not knowing what its like at the bottom and they all fail.

so true.

Ya can bluff ya way to the top easily... staying there and consistently producing results is the tough bit:)

[Butcher]

Go into hospitality and work behind a bar. Best job in the world, it will also work around your uni hours. The up side is that the industry attracts alot of useless workers and it doesn't take much hard work to get to a management position.
If you work hard 2-3 years you can get to the business management stage where you start playing with numbers.

[DCEVO]

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