Vantage point(s) - please help!

[Jizz-Lebrity]

Hey guys,

I may have left it a little late to carry out tomorrow morning, but if anyone can help me out please do!

On the morning of Tuesday the 24/11 (0555 to be exact) I was embroiled in the scam that was the second or third occasion a number of Police Officer's on motor cycles staked-out one of the grey areas on the freeway just prior to the 80-100km/h changeover.

Tomorrow morning, being a Tuesday, I want to pull up at the exact spot the officer who was operating the hand-held was shooting from, at the exact same time, and take some time stamped photo's showing the curvature of the road, traffic conditions, number of lane's etc etc

This particular morning they were on the Freeway South, shooting south bound traffic from I believe the Mill Point Rd on ramp, which falls within the 80zone.

Given I was pulled over & told I was travelling at 104, when I was barely making 40 knots, I'm taking the matter to caught. As much as I'd like to sit here & cop bash the dog-act POS operation, I think it's best to try & keep it clean.

Anyway, my questions to you good people;

- Was anyone lucky enough to grab a photo of the operation? I've seen the media vid on Perth now showing a cop shooting down a curved road pointing out 'speeding' driver's to waiting officers who would proceed to chase down & issue fines - but video evidence is not acceptable in any state apart from NSW :(

- Does anyone remember/did they see exactly where the officer operating the laser was shooting from on this particular morning? Being able to replicate the position/conditions on a timestamped still image should be a good start to creating some doubt regarding the accuracy of an officer getting an accurate speed reading & pinning it to one car across a 4/5 lane freeway congested with morning traffic??

- Does anyone have any suggestions as to what else I should be taking pictures of or any further advice?

Any help is much appreciated, and for any pics/advice that would go towards creating definite doubt/proving innocence (so much for innocent 'till proven guilty), that's a carton!

With regards,

Kael.

[SEXUAL TYRANNOSAURUS]

Did they show you the reading?

[Jizz-Lebrity]

No mate they did not...I believe one officer was shooting into the traffic from a vantage point somewhere around the Mill Point Rd on-ramp, getting a reading from something, then pointing out a vehicle and sending an officer after it to issue a TIN based on a speed he/she had verbally corresponded. That's what the PerthNow video coverage shows. (I also saw her individual laser gun as she pulled it out & measured a passing vehicle's speed to try & prove they're accurate - as I was politely arguing that whatever device used to measure the speed was not measuring that of my vehicle. I saw her remove the device from the bike's saddle bag & it was blank, no speed reading was displayed.)

[SSICK]

court > caught...i guess you should go back to the primary school you dropped out of.

tbh i think ur stuffed, cops will just say they werent where they said they were.

[Jizz-Lebrity]

I was considering a well done/well played sir comment RE the primary school comment. You however made several more spelling/grammatical error's in a post a fraction the size of my own, and are just being a pingpingpingping, so you fail.

You're saying the police will say they were not where they said they were? As in?

[shifted]

Man, I got done there as well, just pay it, it is not worth the hassle for that area, every time they are there cars get seized, pulled over... shit, I got pulled over, told 113 in 80 zone (BS) and the cop just smiled at me and said, "You are gonna get a ticket mate, let me just write it up" like he was having the time of his life, and all the while, another 6 bikes drove past me and pulled over people (about 20 cars were already pulled over too mind you) and this was at 5:55am.

It is just revenue, the only thing you can do around that area (going South or North) is slow down to under the 80...

I was going into heavy traffic too, literally shit loads of cars around me, no space to manoeuvre in or out, but what can you do?

[Stealthed]

Argue there not accurate, how do they know it didnt pick the car next to you up? they just pointed and sent the bike..

[Ryan1080]

I saw them that day mate, as I dropped someone off on Melville Pde right near the onramp south. How much info do you need? Here's whereabouts I saw them all parked anyway:

http://i46.tinypic.com/2nq5fdl.jpg

That was at 8:20 though, doubt they woudl have changed their position though.

[shifted]

They were there again this morning... looks like they will be there til well after Christmas, possible chasing a nice Christmas bonus.

[fourseven]

Kael, were you speeding? Honestly.

[Joe]

I agree.

As per my thread on the matter, if you were going quite fast and got caught, theres not much you can and should do.

If it was a few km over and you got stung for a lot more, then fight it. If you weren't speeding at all and you KNOW you weren't, then fight it even harder.

[DISTRBD]

:blah: :blah: :blah: :wgaf:

[shifted]

Well, I WAS speeding, so do the crime, pay the time or whatever the saying is. Paying my ticket in a couple weeks...

[Jizz-Lebrity]

Thanks for the input evryone, apart from the obvious muppet comment.

Cheers for that map as well Ryan, that's exactly where they were again this morning.


Kael, were you speeding? Honestly.

Negative.

You're a smart bloke, I wouldn't be wasting my time fogging a dead horse like this if I knew I was guilty. On this occasion I was driving my Falcon to work, and when I do so, I don't speed. Nearly 12 months & 22,000km of ownership without an infringement supports this. It would be too easy to get caught & not so easy to get an officer willing to exercise their discretion..

I doubled back this morning and spent a good 20 mins or so surveying & photographing the cops & everything I thought was wrong with their operation.

The pictures show;

- The curvature of the road the officer were shooting down
- The traffic situation - 4 congested lane's of morning freeway traffic everywhere
- The operation itself - one officer operating a hand-held shooting into an ocean of traffic, and his grunts poised on bikes waiting to chase down the cash cows - a possible argument in that the TIN issuing officer's have not actually seen the readout themselves...
- The location; I have several pictures, showing the (change of speed zone) 100km speed board's location - nearest to the 3.406km railway overhead's mast, and the cop's location - nearest to the 3.196km overhead mast. As well as some pics of the cops looking past the 100km speed board. The kunts were 210m from a 20km change of speed zone. Not revenue raising at all..

[[Jacek]]

good on you mate, even if you dont win you will at least get the pingpingpingpings in the courtroom for one morning instead of out in the goldmine

[esky]

What is a 3.406/3.196km railway overhead mast?

[Jizz-Lebrity]

The urban electrified passenger network (Midland, Armadale, Fremantle, NSR/SSR lines etc) has vertical masts that are usually concrete running it's length that carry the Over Head Traction Wiring Equipment. These are referred to as an overhead mast.

These are numbered in form of a 'kilometerage' ascending in the down direction from the centre of the network, East Perth.

Since the restricted area of the SSR (Mandurah line) is adjacent to the freeway until the Anketell tunnel, you can read the kilometerage from the overhead mast's (fucking accurate) until this point.

In this case I used them to measure the distance the cops were sitting from the 100km speed board, which was about 200m.

[BOSS 290]

Lidar or Radar detection? If it was Lidar (laser) the infrigement needs to have both speed and distance reading. After all, laser determines speed by time over distance.

Operating standards of Lidar and Radar dictate that no greater than 6 degrees of cosine error is acceptable otherwise the speed reading is inacurate with the exception of speed camera's. They need to be set up at a specific angle (22 degrees from memory) to be accurate.

My bet is almost all the speed infrigements issued last week where the traffic cops were at the top of the GF freeway exit onto Mitchell Fwy heading north (almost opposite City West) pinging motorists coming from south to north in the 80km/h zone are inaccurate and inadmissable in court.

[Jizz-Lebrity]

It was a hand-held, def not a speed camera so I assume Lidar :dunno:

The infringement notice says:

It is said that at 0555 hours on Tuesday 24/11/2009 ON Kwinana Fwy NEAR Mill Point Rd LOCALITY South Perth

You were the driver of a "Blue sedan FORD" type vehicle and committed the following offence.

Speed zone 80
Det speed 104
Alt speed 102/104

POLICE OFFICER Tufnor #12730.

What do you think Jas?

[Fozzy]

I don't speed. Nearly 12 months & 22,000km of ownership without an infringement supports this.


I dont mean to shit in your thread but this honestly made me chuckle.

I have had my drivers license for the best part of 10 years. Ride bikes and drive cars regularly sitting 10kph over the speed limit in the metro area and 20kph over the limit in country areas never have I had a radar detector either.

I speed I am not going to lie about it.. Everyone is guilty of it. I have my original clean license and have never received an infringement. So that statement means shit.

Best of luck in your fight. Also if you plead not guilty you should receive a statement of material facts detailing the incident further for you.

[Jizz-Lebrity]

lol no offence taken.

That's a nice record you have there, well done. Dramatising the time & km's I've done in my Falcon was more intended as a description of how much I've driven that particular vehicle & been infringement free, not that I've been clean for 22,000 km's lol. (I do >1k a week most weeks)

Bottom line, when I have to drive the phoon to work (almost never these days thankfully), I follow the speed limit - regardless of how blatantly & disgustingly oriented towards turning road user's into convenient cash cows it may be...

Cheers :)

[BOSS 290]

It was a hand-held, def not a speed camera so I assume Lidar :dunno:

The infringement notice says:

It is said that at 0555 hours on Tuesday 24/11/2009 ON Kwinana Fwy NEAR Mill Point Rd LOCALITY South Perth

You were the driver of a "Blue sedan FORD" type vehicle and committed the following offence.

Speed zone 80
Det speed 104
Alt speed 102/104

POLICE OFFICER Tufnor #12730.

What do you think Jas?

The infringement needs to state speed and distance in metres otherwise it will not stand up in court. If it does not state distance elect to take the matter to court stating technical error on the infringement. 100% certain the charge will be dropped before it goes to court.

[Ryan1080]

Does the infrigement need to state whether it was radar or lidar? I never knew lidar needs distance shown, learn something new every day...

[fourseven]

The infringement needs to state speed and distance in metres otherwise it will not stand up in court. If it does not state distance elect to take the matter to court stating technical error on the infringement. 100% certain the charge will be dropped before it goes to court.

Interesting.

I've just had a chat to a friend of mine, who claims they've not once written distance on an infringement from laser. Several court defences as well, always held up. Looking forward to seeing how this turns out in court.

[fourseven]

Negative.

You're a smart bloke, I wouldn't be wasting my time fogging a dead horse like this if I knew I was guilty. On this occasion I was driving my Falcon to work, and when I do so, I don't speed. Nearly 12 months & 22,000km of ownership without an infringement supports this. It would be too easy to get caught & not so easy to get an officer willing to exercise their discretion..


Didn't see this reply. In that case, good luck with it. Hopefully you have a win. There is no doubt in my mind that plenty of people being pinged in this bullshit blitz are innocent.

[masterA]

Trully good luck with this if you fight it
I think we're all guilty of speeding at some time or another, but if you honestly know that you're innocent then definatelly worth the $90 to take it to court (if you have the time and patience)

My old man drives there every morning and he recons in the last two weeks they've been there nearly every day in the morning

[Macca]

The infringement needs to state speed and distance in metres otherwise it will not stand up in court. If it does not state distance elect to take the matter to court stating technical error on the infringement. 100% certain the charge will be dropped before it goes to court.

lol where do you get your information? Have never written or received an infringement with distance measurements on them.

Information you read on the internet isnt always truth :)

[shifted]

Trully good luck with this if you fight it
I think we're all guilty of speeding at some time or another, but if you honestly know that you're innocent then definatelly worth the $90 to take it to court (if you have the time and patience)

My old man drives there every morning and he recons in the last two weeks they've been there nearly every day in the morning

First morning I haven't seen them there was this morning.

[Jizz-Lebrity]

Persistence pays off, that is all.

http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m382/altflood3r/IMG_0424-1.jpg

Oh and suck shit you scum sucking fucking c u n t s.

P.S: LOL @ fat moron cop, this guy was seriously.. a piece of shit.

http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m382/altflood3r/IMG_0426.jpg

[Fukushima]

grats mate

so how did you get off in the end?

[kirbo]

Made of win.

[Joe]

Now if every single person did that, they wouldn't be operating that revenue raising scam.

[DanWA]

now good on ya for persuing it and winning!

memories of potter getting off the hook.

[RICEY]

Well Done.

[gts0039]

Good on ya Kael, nice to see the fine was dropped.