Electric Bus; why not here?

[Mad_Aussie]

http://englishrussia.com/?p=2314

http://englishrussia.com/images/georgian_bus/1.jpg

The russians where doing it in the 50's and 60's, and they still go, so why is it that we don't have them here?

The connection booms look like they swing around so the bus can deviate from the powerlines a little; i.e. pulling over and such.

Cool idea, might be somewhat impractical, but shit why hasn't it been done here?

[Butcher]

Because overhead powerlines look shit

[Alt_F4]

lol, aren't the CAT buses electric?

[_S9_]

lol, aren't the CAT buses electric?

No.

And we DID have electric busses in Perth!

Cnr Charles/Walcott Street.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3585/3369192537_01ac523ddb_b.jpg

[_S9_]

Oh, a few more:


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3118/2752830222_cffee5a413_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3083/2867021915_137c5c8360_b.jpg

[Mad_Aussie]

I stand corrected... nice find on those photos!

[Ryan1080]

What happens if the driver drives out of reach of the lines? Does it need to be pushed back or does it have a bit of charge to run on its own?

[EL BURITO]

they use them in SanFrancisco also

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/San_Francisco_Nob_Hill_2.jpg/513px-San_Francisco_Nob_Hill_2.jpg

they really throw you back in your seat when they start moving

[kiasu]

they use em in melb...but are called trams

[Mistikal]

they use em in melb...but are called trams

Slightly different, they are on steel tracks and cannot deviate from their path, where-as busses obviously can.

I think my grandparents have a few photos lying around of electric busses, and a few of the old diesel trains too.

[Mistikal]

No.

And we DID have electric busses in Perth!

Cnr Charles/Walcott Street.



Where did you get these pictures from?

[sethor]

Where did you get these pictures from?

State Library of WA has a collection of old pics.

If your looking for old pics of Perth start here-
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=730560

[MRO]

Electricity is generated by burning coal = bad for environment

Burning fossil fuels (petrol) = bad for environment

Same, same. Where is the benefit in electricity?

[Ryan1080]

Electricity is generated by burning coal = bad for environment

Burning fossil fuels (petrol) = bad for environment

Same, same. Where is the benefit in electricity?

That seems to be a common error people make when they think electric cars are green. Everytime I read some misguided greenie's comment that we should have all electric cars I feel like slapping them.

I so hope the Chevy Volt never makes it into mass production... electric cars a bigger con than hybrids haha

[kamahl31]

they use them in wellington in NZ as well. if they come off the wire, they have like a rope or something hanging from them behind the bus, and the driver has to manouvre the arms back onto the cable

[McLOVIN]

Hydrogen would be perfect for public transport. Initial costs would be pretty high to replace the current gas powered buses but at least they'd be putting their money where their mouth is when it comes to reducing carbon emissions.

Hydrogen powered public transport = drought solved!! :p

[Butcher]

The tesla roadster electric car is pretty impressive. Produces 1/10th the emissions of a toyota prius and is capable of exceeding freeway speeds


Once the power grids move more and more towards renewable energy the benefits for the environment in regards to electric cars will be more pronounced.
But yes atm whilst we are burning fossil fuels to produce electricity its not really any better

[MMM]

There was a new book out i read in the paper with history of perth showing photos from the early days til now. Problem is i cant remeber the name of author or book? Anyone know what im talking about? I want to buy it. Book launch was at flying scotsman about a month ago.

[RGVFAST]

Electricity is generated by burning coal = bad for environment

Burning fossil fuels (petrol) = bad for environment

Same, same. Where is the benefit in electricity?

can produce electricty via many means other then fossil fuels

windturbines, hydro generators on dams, tidal generator, geothermal based plants producing steam to power elect turbines, god knows why we dont use more solar power in WA since the north west is suppose to have the highest solar index of any place on earth. And the fact solar is free for ever after the technology and establishment costs are paid for

[jr]

Renewable energy still has quite a way to go before it is reliable enough to be a viable power source. And taking into account the setup costs are still massive, and solar is by no means a once off cost, they have a limited lifespan before they need to replaced (approx 20 years with a degradation of output over time). I'm sure we will get there eventually but its just not practical at this point in time. And I'm not just saying that cause I'm a power engineer!

[sethor]

Hydrogen would be perfect for public transport. Initial costs would be pretty high to replace the current gas powered buses but at least they'd be putting their money where their mouth is when it comes to reducing carbon emissions.

Hydrogen powered public transport = drought solved!! :p

Not quite, a great deal of electricity is required to produce/process Hydrogen. It is not viable until a cheap & clean electricity source is discovered (ie Cold fusion).

[Anaru]

Hydrogen would be perfect for public transport. Initial costs would be pretty high to replace the current gas powered buses but at least they'd be putting their money where their mouth is when it comes to reducing carbon emissions.

Hydrogen powered public transport = drought solved!! :p

heaps of buses in perth are hydrogen

[RGVFAST]

i dont think any of the hydrogen fuel cell buses r in operation in perth anymore

[MMM]

with the hydro buses perth just took part in a world wide trial and the trial has ended and buses have been decommisioned as far as im aware.

[Anaru]

what! they seemed to go alright! must of coast a bit too, its not like they only had a couple. what an expensive exercise

[RGVFAST]

was far better to be riding behind a hydro bus on a bicycle breathing in steam then copping a mouth full of soot with the diesel buses transperth use

[heller44]

Deadly silent in the depot's as well, like a whisper compared to the diesels converted to gas. Almost clocked me a couple of times..

[Ryan1080]

The company I work for supplied all the hydrogen for the hydrogen bus trial in Perth. It was just a trial. It failed due to the costs. The running and maintainance costs of each bus were something like three or four times that of an ordinary bus. They weren't that reliable either. Pity.


can produce electricty via many means other then fossil fuels

windturbines, hydro generators on dams, tidal generator, geothermal based plants producing steam to power elect turbines, god knows why we dont use more solar power in WA since the north west is suppose to have the highest solar index of any place on earth. And the fact solar is free for ever after the technology and establishment costs are paid for

The company I work for has branched out into energy generation, including renewable energy, like windfarms etc... When I had a casual chat with one of the guys in charge he said that the windfarms, while they produce 'green' power, it takes more energy to manufacture and build those turbines and windfarms than they produce in a their whole life time, which is roughly 20 years. Go figure...

Renewable energy has a lot more to go for it to be viable. Problem is, people do not want to pay more for electricity, unfortunately it will take a huge investment to not only improve the technology, but to build enough renewable energy plants to be able to rely on it to the same extent as fossil fuel. Unfortunately wind doesn't blow enough all the time. Sun doesn't always shine. And so on...

[S_E]

Electricity is generated by burning coal = bad for environment

Burning fossil fuels (petrol) = bad for environment

Same, same. Where is the benefit in electricity?

It's cheaper. I give no fark for environment.

[EL BURITO]

when a roof covering is built that has the solar panels already built in and looks nice and is cost effective I can see a lot more people providing there own power

[dmwill]

Even if we were to get electric buses again, we would not...

Like anything. The State government would do what they do best, sit on their ass and spend millions in research and studies, only to put it to rest for a while, then it would come up again and the cycle would repeat it's self.

[Ryan1080]

It's cheaper. I give no fark for environment.

Cheaper coz of lower demand. If we were all suddenly going to drive electric cars, the cost would go up and youd be paying same as for petrol...

[Onijin]

The company I work for has branched out into energy generation, including renewable energy, like windfarms etc... When I had a casual chat with one of the guys in charge he said that the windfarms, while they produce 'green' power, it takes more energy to manufacture and build those turbines and windfarms than they produce in a their whole life time, which is roughly 20 years. Go figure...

Renewable energy has a lot more to go for it to be viable. Problem is, people do not want to pay more for electricity, unfortunately it will take a huge investment to not only improve the technology, but to build enough renewable energy plants to be able to rely on it to the same extent as fossil fuel. Unfortunately wind doesn't blow enough all the time. Sun doesn't always shine. And so on...

Other thing stopping it is the artificial caps on energy prices that can be charged to the consumer. Kind of why people tend to be wasteful with energy (and water, same situation) and tend to stick with fossil fuel derived electricity, as the full cost is often not factored in the price of electricity. Remove the caps and any other distortion reducing the price of coal or gas and renewables will sooner be lineball with coal or gas.

Wind is better off with a push towards tapping the high speed winds in the upper atmosphere at the 10k area above sea level. Solar would have to either use more concentrating systems spread out over a large area or locate large arrays in orbit and beam the energy down in microwave form to take advantage of the higher solar radiation levels compared to sea level (costly, but more reliable as well).

[Anaru]

aren't solar panels only 10% efficient? if that.

[Alt_F4]

aren't solar panels only 10% efficient? if that.
You pulled that figure out of your arse.
10% efficient at what?

[Anaru]

You pulled that figure out of your arse.
10% efficient at what?

how bout you pull your head out of your arse. I was asking a question, no stating a fact.

did some digging and its apparently an average of 20% efficiency for a top notch solar panel, with most of the 'run of the mill' solar panels running at 10 to 15% efficiency.

"most photovoltaic (PV) panels convert only about 20% of the captured solar energy to electricity. Even the most advanced designs using silicon are only able to operate at around 40% efficiency"

[Smoked]

tesla exceeding freeway speeds???

that thing does 0-100 in like 5 seconds and can run for 400 odd kays on 1 charge! pity theyre so expensive still though.

the guys having a hard time finding investors to mass produce..

[Onijin]

how bout you pull your head out of your arse. I was asking a question, no stating a fact.

did some digging and its apparently an average of 20% efficiency for a top notch solar panel, with most of the 'run of the mill' solar panels running at 10 to 15% efficiency.

"most photovoltaic (PV) panels convert only about 20% of the captured solar energy to electricity. Even the most advanced designs using silicon are only able to operate at around 40% efficiency"

Depends on the material used and the efficiency of the design. The 40% figure is laboratory test conditions, but a new design is being researched at Swinburne Uni in conjunction with Suntech Power (big manufacturer of panels in China) that could lift performance to around 33% outside of the lab. Think it involves nanoplasmonics or something similar.

[DRKWRX]

its all about money they arnt going to make electric cars until they sort out Hydrogen powered electric cars imo.

[Anaru]

Depends on the material used and the efficiency of the design. The 40% figure is laboratory test conditions, but a new design is being researched at Swinburne Uni in conjunction with Suntech Power (big manufacturer of panels in China) that could lift performance to around 33% outside of the lab. Think it involves nanoplasmonics or something similar.

yeah apparently they have a 80% efficiency panel in the works. so efficient it works at night. Alot of debate about it, but apparently because of the material and the way it works, they haven't figured out how to convert the type of energy it produces into usable electricity

[BASSULA]

also another interesting fact.. most solar panels work at peak efficiency at something like 25 degrees C.. so sitting in 50-60 degrees in the middle of the desert reduces the efficency too..

[RGVFAST]

efficenty dont matter when in WA we got millions of sq kms of land thats useless for fuck all other then recieveing sun. we should be at the forefront of solar tech.

[Onijin]

also another interesting fact.. most solar panels work at peak efficiency at something like 25 degrees C.. so sitting in 50-60 degrees in the middle of the desert reduces the efficency too..

Would be better off using concentrated solar thermal there rather than photovoltaic in that instance.