View Full Version : Question for IT guys - E-mail Server?
Darklove
03-04-2009, 08:03 AM
Hi guys,
Our company wants to run it's own internal e-mail server. Our IT providers have quoted me $6,750 for a Dell Poweredge 840 with an X3220 2.4 GHz processor, 4 GB ram, 2 x 250 GB Hard Drives + associated software / 1 user licence / Acronis backup / Email filtering.
I have priced the same unit on the Dell website and their cost comes to just over $3.6k... I was wondering -
Can anyone recommend a good IT company that wont rip us off?
Is a Poweredge 840 with these specs over-kill for an office that only has 7 people using e-mail with minimal traffic? Most of it seems to be forwarded joke mail and porn. Cheers guys.
yeahlow34
03-04-2009, 08:09 AM
Most of it seems to be forwarded joke mail and porn. Cheers guys.
Can I come and work for you please.
The system is a little overkill if it's just for an email server. Especially for only 7 people.
Have you factored in labour in that 3.6k from Dell? or is that 6.7k quote without labour (pretty excessive if it is, almost normal if its with labour).
nang3
03-04-2009, 08:15 AM
how come you need to go through an IT company? to set up exchange and all teh security BS etc?? PM me the details of what ya need cause i might have a guy for ya..
ROFL at forwarded jokes and porn - out of the 20,862 emails in my outlook inbox, around 2800 are classified as work haha
DanWA
03-04-2009, 08:23 AM
You can run business mail through gmail.
Lonewolf
03-04-2009, 08:28 AM
Hi guys,
Our company wants to run it's own internal e-mail server. Our IT providers have quoted me $6,750 for a Dell Poweredge 840 with an X3220 2.4 GHz processor, 4 GB ram, 2 x 250 GB Hard Drives + associated software / 1 user licence / Acronis backup / Email filtering.
I have priced the same unit on the Dell website and their cost comes to just over $3.6k... I was wondering -
Can anyone recommend a good IT company that wont rip us off?
Is a Poweredge 840 with these specs over-kill for an office that only has 7 people using e-mail with minimal traffic? Most of it seems to be forwarded joke mail and porn. Cheers guys.
The specs arent that far off the mark, shooting yourself in the foot later if you want to upgrade.
Did you include the MS Exchange licensing (I presume this is what you are going to be using), as there will need to be 7 client access licences as well as the software itself.
Depending on what the company was working on for a labour estimate, its probably not that far off.
Anyway, if you want my company to look into getting it done elsewhere, email me blake@computingaustralia.com.au and i'll forward it on to our projects team to look into for you.
zeroyon
03-04-2009, 08:31 AM
I wouldnt run my own mail server for 7 people. Just get a hosted service. Pay an on going monthly fee that will be STUFF all. Job done and no on-going maintence / support.
L7 Solutions :-)
Flick me an email kye.bidzinski@l7.com.au and we can have a chat.
Darklove
03-04-2009, 08:43 AM
Sorry, I should have mentioned that labour was not included in that quote. We have already paid up 30 hours of labour in advance with our IT company.
We are getting an IT company to do the installation because we have no IT people on staff... and the rest of us struggle to turn the bloody things on half the time
bhappy
03-04-2009, 08:46 AM
I wouldnt run my own mail server for 7 people. Just get a hosted service. Pay an on going monthly fee that will be STUFF all. Job done and no on-going maintence / support.
i am with this guy. it is not worth the hassle.
Darklove
03-04-2009, 08:51 AM
I wouldnt run my own mail server for 7 people. Just get a hosted service. Pay an on going monthly fee that will be STUFF all. Job done and no on-going maintence / support.
We need to be able to share outlook calendars, sync our phones / e-mail in real time, change the end part of our e-mail address to be __@cjs.com.au instead of @optus.com.au and as far as I know, a hosted service cannot offer all those features.
Lonewolf / Kye - I want to look elsewhere, the only issue being that we already have pre-paid labour with our current guys, I just object to their high cost for hardware. But they have already done most of the IT work in our office so if we just jump ship it might put some noses out of joint. I'll need to discuss with the boss when he gets back from holidays. Kye I'll shoot you an e-mail, if you could let us know what you can do I'd appreciate it.
fourseven
03-04-2009, 08:59 AM
We need to be able to share outlook calendars, sync our phones / e-mail in real time, change the end part of our e-mail address to be __@cjs.com.au instead of @optus.com.au and as far as I know, a hosted service cannot offer all those features.
Lonewolf / Kye - I want to look elsewhere, the only issue being that we already have pre-paid labour with our current guys, I just object to their high cost for hardware. But they have already done most of the IT work in our office so if we just jump ship it might put some noses out of joint. I'll need to discuss with the boss when he gets back from holidays. Kye I'll shoot you an e-mail, if you could let us know what you can do I'd appreciate it.
AccordCrox isit?
Darklove
03-04-2009, 09:09 AM
Not keen to name names....
fourseven
03-04-2009, 09:22 AM
Not keen to name names....
Fair call. :)
andeh
03-04-2009, 11:09 AM
L7 Solutions :-)
Flick me an email kye.bidzinski@l7.com.au and we can have a chat.
die you L7 boy
confuzion
03-04-2009, 11:25 AM
Carrier pigeon ftw.. cheap as - bit of seeds now and then
http://irenedarku.com/images/snail-mail.gif
Tre-Cool
03-04-2009, 11:32 AM
hardware wise that is about right, but really depends on the other specs, i.e raid, speed of drives, amount of ram etc.
I've setup a couple of sbs2003 box's for freinds businesses. 1 being mining related, the other organic produce type stuff. These servers run all there data storage and email systems etc and sync up with nokia phones, iphones etc for remote mail etc.
They also do remote vpn from mine sites as well.
At mates rates i.e cost price on hardware/software and some $$$ my way for my time it still starts at about 5.5K for a reliable and properly setup environment.
Up time for these has been over 6 months at a time, before i make changes that require a reboot.
these are companies that only have 5-15 staff using computers. but they would still be plenty upto 100.
You want a company that deals with large companies aswell as SMB's so they can put in place practises that actually benefit the small player.
Darklove
03-04-2009, 11:52 AM
Is that 5.5k for both servers though?
kirbo
03-04-2009, 12:36 PM
Expense? Licences cost an arm & a leg & you pay for experience when using a reputable IT company.
Don't cut corners when implementing a system, if you do it'll cost you 4x the initial quote in ongoing servicing/repairs. Jumping ship is risky business too. Like most industries, there are many cowboys in the IT game. Hit it head on, do it once, do it proparly.
Thats my 2cent, take it or leave it. :)
if you have 7 people needing to be served just email a pentium 4 with with a bit of ram would do nicely, not those servers you listed which i designed to run active directory, exchange and host files. not sure on your agenda as a business but that server is major over kill in my opinion and if you aren't going to go over 20 people in the next year or so i'd advised against something so expensive.
i'd consider the poweredge T100 from dell
(http://www1.ap.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/server-poweredge-t100?c=au&cs=aubsd1&l=en&s=bsd)
i'd increase the ram and maybe a bigger processor but nothing major and shouldn't be too far over the $1000 mark.
and as for labour etc, if you install small business 2008 and get a copy of exchange 2007, it is so damn easy to do it yourself if you have half a brain. the instructions are very clear and wouldn't take more than a day to set it up as small business server makes it so easy to do. if you had 30+ people to worry about i'd consider hired help, but 7 people pfft do it yourself.
As Mentioned before the software and licensing is where most of the cost is.
A bit of a rough estimate below;
Server Package HP/IBM Bundled with SBS2003 5user lic = $2000
2x additional user lic = $1500
SBS backup software= $700
Antivirus/Spam filter = $1000 inc extra lic
Backup hardware = $400
Warranty is another big factor. Nothing worse than a motherboard dieing and then not being able to get same or next day replacement parts.
Allow 15hrs to set it up server and configure old PC's onto your network, transfer emails and data as it can be a time consuming job.
Definitely do not do it yourself as its a pain in the arse going to a new clients premises and having things half configured or just totally wrong.
Hope that helped a bit. Hit me a pm if you want any more info.
zeroyon
03-04-2009, 02:01 PM
We need to be able to share outlook calendars, sync our phones / e-mail in real time, change the end part of our e-mail address to be __@cjs.com.au instead of @optus.com.au and as far as I know, a hosted service cannot offer all those features.
You can do all of the with hosted service except share the calenders(to a point, internal networking can overcome this)
If you switched to GMAIL. You could share the calenders. You also have the added advantage of having an office collaberation tool and being able to access your documents / emails anywhere in the world.
And yes you can still use your domain at GMAIL. Its just a paid service.
But hey feel free to spend up and have a high maintance system instead :)
Darklove
03-04-2009, 02:07 PM
You can do all of the with hosted service except share the calenders(to a point, internal networking can overcome this)
If you switched to GMAIL. You could share the calenders. You also have the added advantage of having an office collaberation tool and being able to access your documents / emails anywhere in the world.
And yes you can still use your domain at GMAIL. Its just a paid service.
But hey feel free to spend up and have a high maintance system instead :)
I like your logic but it's pushing shit up a hill trying to convince the boss to switch to GMAIL, he has his heart set on our own server. But I'll look into it a bit more though because if what your saying is spot on it could be a solution for us
bad thing with gmail is, sensitive confidential emails aren't stored on a local server but rather on a public server (gmail). can be a potential hazard and also if clients are sending you confidential information they can be a bit hesitant or down right will refuse to send you those emails. this is coming from personal experience with big clients and was one of the major reasons we didn't go the gmail way, it's something you should consider.
and as for doing it yourself with setting up small business 2008 and exchange 2007, the software was designed for end users to be able to set it up themselves. if you have no prior exchange server or mail server to merge over it is surprisingly simple to do. and will save you thousands in smelly nerds doing it. also, dell come with a 3 year onsite warranty on all servers if i'm not mistaken?
DanWA
03-04-2009, 02:19 PM
I've setup paid gmail services on 3 different businesses.
Gmail has no recorded instances of data being stolen/lost.
If its a small business (sub 20 users) its perfect, hosting your own shit can cause problems, bandwidth etc aswell.
http://www.google.com/apps/intl/en/business/messaging.html
Definitely do not do it yourself as its a pain in the arse going to a new clients premises and having things half configured or just totally wrong.
nothing worse
Tre-Cool
03-04-2009, 04:12 PM
Is that 5.5k for both servers though?
No Each, but that's like 12 months ago pricing.
they are running raid 10 with 4x 500gb hard drives.
Internet connection wise, you should easily getaway with a 512kb dsl line through someone like amnet (didicated IP address -REQUIREMENT IF running own email server).
You WILL need to play with restrictions on exchange as by default it normally allows relay which means any pingpingpingping can use your server to spam other people.
For a new domain name you could get away without external spam filtering, but once you start getting about 50/50 spam for real emails, it's time to filter offsite so as not to clock up your internet feed.
I sit on a 10mb fibre for my internet at work and use external filtering because 90% yes 90 fucking percent is spam.
cplagz
03-04-2009, 04:36 PM
Rent the server from Dell instead - that way you got 24/7 support - if it breaks, they fix it, if the hardwares fuct they replace it on the spot.
Then you can upgrade later on down the track too.
bhappy
03-04-2009, 05:44 PM
You can do all of the with hosted service except share the calenders(to a point, internal networking can overcome this)
If you switched to GMAIL. You could share the calenders. You also have the added advantage of having an office collaberation tool and being able to access your documents / emails anywhere in the world.
And yes you can still use your domain at GMAIL. Its just a paid service.
But hey feel free to spend up and have a high maintance system instead :)
wait till you get bombarded with spam and have to pay for licenses of spam filtering apps. Maintenance. Troubleshooting. Upgrading.
This is not worth implementing for 5 users. Good luck to ya though.
Sooner or later all i.t will be hosted by google anyways even companies that have 10,000+ users to support. remember my words.
fourseven
03-04-2009, 05:59 PM
Sooner or later all i.t will be hosted by google anyways even companies that have 10,000+ users to support. remember my words.
Are you kidding? Google are going broke. Their only business model is their advertising business which got ass fucked in 2008, nothing else they do makes money. Your wild claim would require Google to have invested in infrastructure and R&D for cloud computing, which they haven't bothered with and are way behind the game.
Jobs have been cut back, perks have disappeared and projects are being scrapped all over the place. I'll be surprised to see them operating in 5 years time.
Lonewolf
03-04-2009, 06:26 PM
a) dont do it yourself. There are a significant number of things that need to be done properly by an IT company that knows what they are doing. Just running the wizards in SBS doesnt make you an IT guru.
b) be careful with your hardware vendor and configuration. Choose it once, do it properly, read the warranty fine print.
c) you need to take into account other factors such as pre-existing servers, timelines for replacement of those servers, functionality of the mail server software and many other things. Just slapping in an extra server doesnt cut it.
d) i'd never run a client on a hosted service if there is sufficient funding for their own server. It makes troubleshooting, backup, confidentiality and many others things so much simpler.
e) maintenance of servers is critical. Dont purchase then let it languish just because everything seems to be going fine
f) I usually wouldnt have a seperate server for mail only unless the user base warranted it, I would have a combined SBS box to run your whole business. Without knowing your companys IT infrastructure I cant make a judgement.
g) not all IT companies are based on signing contracts
h) prepaid hours, erk.
i) dell, erk, all subcontractors who dont give a shit.
Like I said, if you need someone to discuss things, let me know, or someone else competent.
DanWA
03-04-2009, 07:34 PM
Too many I.T "consultants" putting their views in here lol, i know i used to be one.
At the end of the day if you going with a 3rd party company to do the work for you dont pay more then $50/hour or you're getting ripped off.
Lonewolf
03-04-2009, 08:27 PM
$50 p/hr hahaha
Tre-Cool
05-04-2009, 04:35 PM
some companies arent worth $50hr. some are...
Darklove
06-04-2009, 05:55 AM
Cheers for all your input guys. I'm still struggling to decide on how we should progress this, the boss is back today so I'll organise a meeting to discuss the situation and use some of these posts as discussion points. I'll probably send an e-mail or 2 to some of you today, any recommendations you can offer would be most appreciated :)
DanWA
06-04-2009, 09:35 AM
gmail will be the way to go for business of such small size.
Consultants just want your money.
insane
06-04-2009, 12:23 PM
dude i have a small business running 10 addresses for their 7 computer network for around 7 years now on the same computer.
p3-600mhz
FreeBSD + Sendmail + Sean's awesome config ftw
it also runs 3 websites using apache and p5-ssl
NO LAG
tell them to shove their 7k server up their ass
DanWA
06-04-2009, 12:32 PM
Thats consultants for ya sean, marek spec :P
insane
06-04-2009, 01:11 PM
awwww dont make me blush
I WILL FIGLET IN YOUR SENDMAIL BOH
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