No Limits track nights

[cactus]

Hello hello,

I plan on doing the no limits night coming up in March. I just wanted to know how tough is it on your car, and how is the event run?

Cheers, Matt

[Skitzo]

http://www.nolimitevents.com

[cactus]

:) i should try looking

[Skitzo]

haha eah. the site will give you all the information you need ie, prices, requirements and event layout.

As for how hard is it on your car? that all depends on how hard you drive. Its a good idea to have fresh brake fluid and new "good quality" brake pads in the car.

[Lonewolf]

what brakes are you running now matt?
This will likely be your biggest issue

[cactus]

I should have asked my question a little bit ... slack on my behalf lol

Ummmm they are pretty good, they are standard brakes but they are a big upgrade over standard HQ ones, massive pad surface, and of course I have slotted discs all round.

I was thinking more like, say in Brockas case, if he is coming down straight at whatever speed, say 180+, how does your car pull up going into turn one? Similar weight car, going a few kms more than me, but braking capacity 10x better.

Just want to know if other people struggle after doing one lap going hard ...

[matty12]

you wont know unless you give it a go.There will always something to up grade afterwards though.

Just make sure everthing thing is good,fresh brake fluid/pads etc and go for gold.

[Evilteddy]

Just go easy the first few laps and get yourself into it, you'll have an instructor with you for half the night, so you should be right.
If you feel the brakes starting to fade let them cool down for a fair while :)

[shane]

You'll be right, its not that hard on the brakes. :)



http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g24/saj_01/shane2012072.jpg


In all seriousness you just drive to the limit of the weakest part, whether thats brakes, suspension or you. If you do that you cant go wrong and just have fun.

[xr06t]

you'll be fine. you dont go 100% off the bat, settle into it then see how far you can go.

i had upgraded pads and new fluid and that was it for my 1st one and the car was standard. It survived fine. I read something somewhere about overfilling the engine oil a little for track days? wait for someone to confirm before doing that but.

[waxdass]

How hard is it on brakes and tyres?

Wouldnt mind lapping barbs - but dont like the idea of having to fork out for new pads and tyres soon after!

[[SPESHAL]]

Even if you go through some pads worth a couple of hundred bucks - small price to pay for a bit of fun no? And just chuck on the stockies.

I'm looking forward to giving the night in March a crack. Its only the short track though?

[Evilteddy]

Long track during Daylight savings hours, until there is no light left in the basin. Then short track.

[doriae86]

pretty sure the one on the 5th is being reserved for the HSV club . .

[xr06t]

i just used my road tyres. 42psi didn't see too much scrubbing on the outsides. they were dunlop sp3000 i think.

[Brockas]

cactus, you'll be fine, you'll just have to ensure you brake early and firm.

The pads will get hot, but before you fork out for new pads I'd make sure your fluid is decent. Before each event I bleed the brakes and put Project Mu fluid in, as it has the highest boiling point of any brake fluid on the market (also what the V8 supercars use).

It's about $80 off Danny at Import Central, but you wont need a new bottle every time you go to the track, just the first time you flush it.

This will make a big difference and ensure the pedal doesn't go to the floor by the end of the 3rd lap.



Tyres, they'll be fine. Really doesn't wear them out that badly at all.

[cactus]

Cheers fellas

Car is off the road, finally get the hi-stall adjusted, so will be doing pads + fluid now that mentioned and obvious full service

[Sully]

maybe see if you can find out what the hq racing boys use? they seem to pull up allright for a fair few laps. used to have good fun chasing them around on tuning days.

[Barney]

Racing fluid is essential if you concerned about stopping.

I have used AP600 and PBR Racing fluid, both worked well. AP is about $40 and PBR is about $30 from Perth Brake Parts.

[Turbo2.6L]

What do people recommend in terms of pads?
I want to start running the No-Limits nights on a regular basis but my car is predominantly used as a street car... Project MU pads alright or more suited to track only?? I have 4pot Brembos with 355mm disks & braided lines.
Also, could someone point me in the right direction as to how i set my sway bars up? My car is a heavy bugger & i have front/rear adjustable swaybars, should they be on hard, soft, 1 hard 1 soft?? I have NFI as i've never been on a circuit before.

[Tocchi]

dean, danny (IC) cant get anything but the race series to suit our brembos. not suitable for street at all.

but the brake fluid will help temperatures.


worst case, ask the instructers at the track (you'd want to sort it before the night though), they know heaps :)

[Turbo2.6L]

So what pads should i be looking at?
Maybe just go for a track only pad & swap out after events for street pads??

[Lonewolf]

So what pads should i be looking at?
Maybe just go for a track only pad & swap out after events for street pads??

this is the best option for your pad and rotor life

[Turbo2.6L]

Cool, will look into that then.
More cash out the window! :lol:

[juggernaut]

Your brakes will struggle.

My brother had a COME 355 stroker in a LH Torrie with HQ brakes up front decent fluid and decent pads and he had to brake early to haul the thing up. The pads were useless after a day.....cracked rotors...etc. but we also used the long track. He drove it pretty hard tho.

It really doesn't matter tho......you will just have to brake accordingly and you'll have a ball.

[Kilma]

HQ brakes. BF Brembos. Not same.

You should do ok Dean. I got around at a decent speed in my EF with stock brakes. Upgraed to slotted rotors and EBC Red Stuff pads. Just learn the track and your limits before trying to push them too far.

[juggernaut]

My bad....didn't know what brakes he had.

He also mentioned only one hard lap so should be fine.

[Turbo2.6L]

HQ brakes. BF Brembos. Not same.

You should do ok Dean. I got around at a decent speed in my EF with stock brakes. Upgraed to slotted rotors and EBC Red Stuff pads. Just learn the track and your limits before trying to push them too far.

Ok sweet, just don't wanna lunch rotors & pads if i can avoid it!
Read on another forum that Power Steering pumps are a good idea? Anyone got any opinions/info on that??

[djr81]

What do people recommend in terms of pads?
I want to start running the No-Limits nights on a regular basis but my car is predominantly used as a street car... Project MU pads alright or more suited to track only?? I have 4pot Brembos with 355mm disks & braided lines.
Also, could someone point me in the right direction as to how i set my sway bars up? My car is a heavy bugger & i have front/rear adjustable swaybars, should they be on hard, soft, 1 hard 1 soft?? I have NFI as i've never been on a circuit before.
Project Mu are a great track pad.

Recommended pads are the Ferodo DS2500 series. Not 100% sure which model BA/BF you have but a similar pad for my Brembo calliper (4 pot F40) was $420 for the pair. They are not cheap (obviously) but you can run them on the road aswell as they work from cold - unlike most of the cheaper options. They have a good, flat friction coefficient up until they reach a temperature that will be having your rotors glow a lovely shade of red.

Whichever pad you try you may well need rears too.

Try Perth Brake Parts (9451 9455).

When you change them bleed the fluid as well.

When you have finished you run of three laps go for a drive around the back of the pits area to give them time to cool. Don't come in then immediately park up in the pit lane if you can avoid it.

As for sway bars the answer depends. Being a Falcon it will be front heavy - hence understeer but will then probably oversteer on corner exit. If the suspension is otherwise unmodified your best bet is to run both bars on full hard. When you have determined whichever end works less well try softening the bar on that end. Eg if it understeers too much the soften the front. But you need to be sure about where in the corner it is behaving in a certain way eg just because it oversteers on corner exit doesn't necessarilly mean it isn't understeering across the apex.

It is problematic because you need the front bar on hard to stop the weight of the thing causing it to fall over the camber on the front tyre, ie to help hold the car up. But a harder front bar also causes understeer. So which way to set the bars depends on the idiosyncrasies of the car.

By starting on hard you will help controll any excess weight transfer.

Also keep a close eye on your front left tyre.

Hope that makes sense.

[Turbo2.6L]

Thanks for that mate :D
Why front left tyre? Does it wear quickly??

[djr81]

Thanks for that mate :D
Why front left tyre? Does it wear quickly??

At Wanneroo it gets belted. Particularly on a Falcon. There is a bloke who runs the Speed Event Series in a black BA Ute with a supercharged motor. Goes rather hard, but of all the tyres it is the front left that gets the most caning at Wanneroo.

[Kilma]

It's a right turning track. All the weight of the car is on the fronts as you are braking all the weight is put on the front. As you start turning, the weight is transferred to the outside (left for most of the turns). That will put it under a lot more stress than the other tyres.

[Turbo2.6L]

No probs, thanks heaps guys!

[FranZ]

EBC pick your colour IMO are not so great.

If I were you, I'd be going Ferodo DS2500 or Ferodo DS3000's or Pagid Blue's (I think they are RS14 but don't quote me on that).

If you have stone guards behind the front rotors; remove them **; they hold so much heat in.

** means I do not accept responsiblity of anything that happens due to removing them. I have also heard that it could make your car illegal if you dont have them - I'm not sure on that - but they do hold heaps of heat in!


If it were me setting up a car; I would start with medium front and back and see what happens; but I can see medium front, soft rear coming out to be the setup... More important than setting sway bars up would be the alignment (camber, toe, castor).

*shrug*

[shane]

So what pads should i be looking at?
Maybe just go for a track only pad & swap out after events for street pads??

I went down the path of trying to find a pad that was a compromise between track and street but in the end worked out its much cheaper to use a full track pad at the track and a street pad every where else.
You will probably end up having to use the ds3000 pads with a car of your weight. I could never get more than 20 laps out of ds 2500s.

[808]

Look into EBC stuff too Shane. Alot of saloon cars use them at Barbagallo with success. Other wise Ferodo is a good choice.

Franz it's not illegal to remove backing plates from brake disc's. Holden many years ago used to have the dealerships remove them from Commodores.

[Turbo2.6L]

I went down the path of trying to find a pad that was a compromise between track and street but in the end worked out its much cheaper to use a full track pad at the track and a street pad every where else.
You will probably end up having to use the ds3000 pads with a car of your weight. I could never get more than 20 laps out of ds 2500s.

20 Laps total or 20 in a row?
If that's total, i don't wanna be going through a $450 set of pads each night at the track :(


EBC pick your colour IMO are not so great.

If I were you, I'd be going Ferodo DS2500 or Ferodo DS3000's or Pagid Blue's (I think they are RS14 but don't quote me on that).

If you have stone guards behind the front rotors; remove them **; they hold so much heat in.

** means I do not accept responsiblity of anything that happens due to removing them. I have also heard that it could make your car illegal if you dont have them - I'm not sure on that - but they do hold heaps of heat in!


If it were me setting up a car; I would start with medium front and back and see what happens; but I can see medium front, soft rear coming out to be the setup... More important than setting sway bars up would be the alignment (camber, toe, castor).

*shrug*

Great advice in there Franz, cheers :D
What sort of camber, toe & castor settings should i be dialling in as a beginner?

[djr81]

20 Laps total or 20 in a row?
If that's total, i don't wanna be going through a $450 set of pads each night at the track :(

How long a pad lasts largely depends on how hot it gets.
How hot it gets depends on:
Its size.
The rotor size.
The weight of the car.
The power of the car.
How hard you brake.
How much cooling the rotors/pads get.
The circuit you are on.
Whether or not you do a heap of laps in a row or just a few at a time.

At the end of the day do not expect a compromised road/track pad (eg a DS2500) to outlast a proper circuit pad (eg a DS 3000) simply because it has been made to work from cold which is not a requirement of the track pad.

To give you an indication the DS2500's on my car (old GTR) have made it through four track sprint competitions & a hillclimb & are not dead yet. But they need better cooling.

If it is your first event you won't be belting the brakes overly much anyway.




Great advice in there Franz, cheers :D
What sort of camber, toe & castor settings should i be dialling in as a beginner?
The first question is what of those settings can be adjusted on your car? I ask because my old AU only has toe adjustment available on the front end.

Given the choice (& depending on your tyres) negative camber on the front end is the most influential of the three options.
Then toe, then castor. Remember castor simply adds camber when steering lock is applied & it also makes the steering self align more. More recent model cars tend to have more castor than older versions which probably makes it more influential.

But I am by no means sure you can easilly adjust camber & castor (if at all)on your car.

[esky]

are the entrance forms available for the 28th may.

i looked on the nolimits site and it says nothing.



dean go the ds3000 pads, we've got a stupid amount of weight to stop and your car piles on the speed. auto turbo falcons are about as unfriendly to brakes as you can get.

[Turbo2.6L]

Just scored a set of 6pot Brembos for the front so i'll stick some DS3000's & DBA 5000 rotors on with em.

Thanks alot for the help Franz, much appreciated :D

[Brockas]

If you can, source some Alcon / Project Mu rotors for your car. DBA have cracked on my car every time I've used them, and in a heavier car like yours I can't see them lasting.

[bjohnson]

The forms aren't up yet.

I think they are making some changes to them.

[Turbo2.6L]

If you can, source some Alcon / Project Mu rotors for your car. DBA have cracked on my car every time I've used them, and in a heavier car like yours I can't see them lasting.

Project MU dont make em so i'll see what Alcon have to offer.
Thanks for the tip!

[shane]

20 Laps total or 20 in a row?
If that's total, i don't wanna be going through a $450 set of pads each night at the track :(



Great advice in there Franz, cheers :D
What sort of camber, toe & castor settings should i be dialling in as a beginner?
20 laps total. Heavy cars kill them. I dont know what adjustment you can get on falcons but i ran my ute with 10degree castor and 4.5 degree neg camber which fixed understeer problems. Dont set your car up too stiff, you need it to transfer weight.
If you can set up some brake ducting it helps.
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g24/saj_01/100_0884.jpg

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g24/saj_01/100_0887.jpg

[Turbo2.6L]

How effective was that conduit at cooling the brakes Shane?

[esky]

Just scored a set of 6pot Brembos for the front so i'll stick some DS3000's & DBA 5000 rotors on with em.

Thanks alot for the help Franz, much appreciated :D

just run better pads with the brembo discs

have you got rear brakes as well?

[Turbo2.6L]

Thinking of smashing my 4pots from the front on the rear but we'll see what happens.

[Brute]

Look into EBC stuff too Shane. Alot of saloon cars use them at Barbagallo with success. Other wise Ferodo is a good choice.


There's a big weight difference between a saloon car and a street car.

EBC's have a tendency to separate from the backing plate when they get hot, have had that happen every time I used EBC reds, But it has never happened with ferodo DS 2500 0r 3000's.