Building an NA RB30

[Smoked]

does anyone have any knowledge on building an NA rb30??

a mate of mine is building an RB30..
He doesnt want to go turbo.. so dont suggest that please!

He also doesnt want to go RB25 head / twin cam.

weve got a new head,, what should we do to it??
our ideas =head shave. port & polish,, cam. valve springs and retainers..
is it worth doing port & polish??

weve got a good block,, which we think may even be a turbo block..
so he wants to put high compression pistons in there,,maybe up around 10/11:1.. do we need new rods for this?? or can they be balanced or something

other ideas presented to us by different people are= balancing the crank.. is this necessary? ..

any other ideas..?? places you know of that know about RB30 NA performance

when we took apart the motor,, we found it had pistons that suit a twin cam 4 valve per cylinder NISSAN motor.. unsure of exactly which one. or wether they are turbo or NA pistons. we think someone was building this motor for turbo application,, but we dont want that,, we want to use the strong block for a thumping 3 litre NA application that revs its tits off. to be different.

it WILL be a 3 litre straight six that idles like a truckie gargling marbles.. and poops on v8s

cheers

[Wilko]

Why does he not want to go turbo?

[zeroyon]

Supercharge it ... :P

Otherwise
Custom made to order pistons with spec comp ratio
titaniumn rods
Custom counter weight crank
big valves
290 degree cam, solid lifter conversion
prob need some sort of race fuel or methonal.
balance and blueprint
CNC port the head

BIG $$ and expect to just be able to keep up with a silvia with cooler, zorst boost.

[Smoked]

Why does he not want to go turbo?

Because every second man and his dog goes turbo in their skylines / silvias etc.
hes not interested in pulling super fast times,,
just a tough reliable every other day driver that will fry tyres and surprise a few unsuspecting victims.
Not to mention it being a rarity,,and sounding the part with a high comp lumpy idle

Its an R31 ti sedan,, converted to manual..so it has the auto diff (3.9 ratios)

.. he wants to pit pass it after its done too. then he might possibly mini spool it

[Lonewolf]

wouldnt bother personally, different story if he made the smart choice and went for the DOHC head.

http://www.autospeed.com/cms/A_108950/article.html shows some of the potential gains by doing so.

That said, if he wants to go the silly route:

compression
ported head
cam/springs/retainers
good custom exhaust manifold
custom inlet plenum (even better, 6 throttles..)
good management and tuner

[zeroyon]

Any hi-comp big cam NA engine is not going to be reliable or pass the pits.

The reason a hi power NA is "differen't" is because its not really practical.


6 throttles..

Thats a good idea too !

[Lonewolf]

Any hi-comp big cam NA engine is not going to be reliable or pass the pits.

The reason a hi power NA is "differen't" is because its not really practical.



Thats a good idea too !

nor is it going to drive well at low-mid rpm... hence why vtec/vvtli/vanos were invented.

[V8ENZ]

carbies mate

[Smoked]

this is what i think is going to happen=

head= shaved. port & polish, cam, springs + retainers.

bottom end= high comp pistons and rings..,, but nothing over the top.

just so like,, it will be better than other VL's and NA skylines that have the usual mods like air intake and extractors..
maybe run a low 15,. 15 flat... high 14 if lucky

none of this mega build stuff. thats like super $$$ and we dont have money like that to waste on a 3 litre RB30 NA.. were not silly,, silvia with cooler and zorst would be the go for us if that were the case but we just like this car and have put lots of work into it

[Philthy]

just so like,, it will be better than other VL's and NA skylines that have the usual mods like air intake and extractors..
maybe run a low 15,. 15 flat... high 14 if lucky


i think ur mate is going to be wasting his money to be perfectly honest, it will beat other na vls? ive got a vl, its done 310,000kms, i could get out and out run my car on foot down the quarter, not really that hard. if its a skyline, do something interesting if u wana go na, drop a v8 in it or something. i just think its got bogan written all over it.

my 2c

edit - if he does go a head with his desired plans, good luck i hope you get what u want from it. if he gets bored with the car after a while super charge it, unique and its a good way to blow a rb30 :)

[V8ENZ]

wack some giggle gas on it
everytime you want a headrush, push the button

[S_E]

There's a little here:

http://calaisturbo.com.au/showthread.php?t=1146


It's a lot of money to spend when a turbo conversion + cooler + exhaust would end up costing less, and there would be more potential in that aswell.

[Smoked]

With that guys mods running 13.9.. I dont see why my mate cant run flat 15's or even high 14s easily.. Which is fast enough seeing as though he rides street bikes to get his kicks.

keep in mind,, a 5 litre VN commodore runs 15 flat with very mild tweaks..
6 cyl falcodores can run mid high high 15s with mild tweaks also.. so not bad for a 3 litre with bugger all spent on it.. trade price everything and free labour

[ED40]

13.9 @ 118mph.. thats pretty hard to beleive from an NA 6 without using nos and only a stage 3 CROW cam.. actually i dont beleive it at all.
You should be able to run a 14 easy with the mods u are thinking of, my ed falcon (xr6 spec with a $122 regrind cam + exhaust) ran a 14.8 @ 92mph and that was with a flat spot because the valve springs where rooted. 5speed falcons will run 14's easy, commodores cost a bit more to get in the 14's.
If he is after late 14's flat 15's and the car is a 5spd then all he needs is extractors, exhaust, tight lsd, and a small cam.. try wadecams for a regrind maybe?

[Philthy]

so not bad for a 3 litre with bugger all spent on it.. trade price everything and free labour

if its trade price and free labour why not turbo it or do something a little more extreme?

[Smoked]

13.9 @ 118mph.. thats pretty hard to beleive from an NA 6 without using nos and only a stage 3 CROW cam.. actually i dont beleive it at all.
You should be able to run a 14 easy with the mods u are thinking of, my ed falcon (xr6 spec with a $122 regrind cam + exhaust) ran a 14.8 @ 92mph and that was with a flat spot because the valve springs where rooted. 5speed falcons will run 14's easy, commodores cost a bit more to get in the 14's.
If he is after late 14's flat 15's and the car is a 5spd then all he needs is extractors, exhaust, tight lsd, and a small cam.. try wadecams for a regrind maybe?

this is what that guy had=

1. Seal off the little air intake snorkle and cut a hole through the bottom of the stock box. Using 90mm PVC down pipe, and 45 degree connections, run the pipe to just behind your front spoiler. Put a K&N panel air filter in the standard box. Don't think about using that flexible piping for the cold air, it's not as effective.

2. Have the cylinders bored 30 thou

3. Fit high compression forged flat top pistons. I used Ross pistons

4. Shave the head 20 thou

5. Have the head heavily ported, polished and hi-flowed

6. Fit Pacemaker 1.75" mandrel bent extractors, a 2.5" mandrel bent pipe from the extractors to the 2.5" high flow cat, then a 2.5" mandrel bent pipe to the straight through Lukey muffler and a 3" mandrel bent pipe from the muffler to the nice tip

7. Stage 3 "Crow Cams" cam

8. Bosch Motorsport fuel pump

9. Bosch 150 390cc injectors

10. Haltech computer with active 3D ignition and fuel timing adjustments.

I put a VL turbo LSD onto it and it tell you, it ran like a dream. It all cost $12000 including the price of the car. Other than the engine mods, the car itself was shmik. I did most myself, but the things that I couldn't eg:- shaving the head, boring the cylinders I had done at trade price. The joys of being a panel beater/spray painter.

[Smoked]

if its trade price and free labour why not turbo it or do something a little more extreme?

Turbo'ing requires engineering and gets attention from cops all the time.
cops keep getting worse and worse

[TJ]

No it doesnt, factory vl turbo means turbo conversion isnt an issue.

[SimonR32]

imo totally pointless waste of money and resources

[NVIOUS]

Turbo'ing requires engineering and gets attention from cops all the time.
cops keep getting worse and worse

a lumpy cam will do the exact same thing, won't pass pits and cops will love it. I know that one from personal experience ;)

But if you want some advice, an apprentice that used to work with us had a n/a VL he done up, Brett from Formula Tech did all the work (one of the mechs there also used to work for us and has a modded n/a VL). He had dreams of being the fastest n/a RB30, until he woke up like the rest of them.

[Passage GT]

you'll find some info on it on the r31 skyline club forums too
i think one dude has done a build motor with twin throttle etc
doing high 13s with the atmo rb30
or maybe that's the dude with twin cam head
i forget
either way it's a waste of money
just go a mild turbo setup
even a stock one with cooler and zorst will be legal and quicker

[Smoked]

hey.. i have a turbo car.. im not the one making decisions here ;)

but he rides street bikes,, so he just wants his na rb30 to poke a bit,, nothing stupid like if he went turbo

[Philthy]

Turbo'ing requires engineering

not on a rb30 it doesnt. as tj said u can get a turbo manifold etc and it pretty much bolts up easily.

dont throw around words like engineering its done far to often on these forums. engineers primarily design things and deal with complex systems that require acurate stress, strain etc calcs to be built properly.

turboing a car requires a mechanic not engineering.

designing a new motor requires engineering but not for the idea of the motor, for the details of head gasket thickness, clearance volume, bolt diameters etc etc etc.

[Brockas]

13.9 @ 118mph

118mph would require about 360rwhp in a VL.

13.9 would require a retarded driver.


After reading that post, only the latter is possible.

[WRCjosh]

this would be the biggest waste of money and energy ive probably ever seen. Want a reliable car so you go and "bomb" the fuck out of a shitty n/a 30, it'll be slow and unreliable... I can find fully built turbo 30s for under 5k, why would you bother.

[kamahl31]

nah trav ur right, 13.8 i believe it was from that guy (member name is rb30e iirc), single cam n all. there was a guy with a gts2 working a rb30de, havent heard about him for a while tho

[ED40]

kamahl sorry im not gonna beleive an N/A rb30 with just those mods and a shitty crow cam can pull over 300rwhp(118mph).. no chance.
guy must of been running big shot of no2 or something.

[Onijin]

Considering that the RB-series engines are more geared towards turbo applications in terms of design, I don't think you're going to get much in the way of poke with the usual N/A mods. It'd also depend on what sort of budget your mate is willing to put into tuning it (i.e. the more money available, the more potential that can be unlocked).

But if that's what he wants to do, more power to him.

[Smoked]

kamahl sorry im not gonna beleive an N/A rb30 with just those mods and a shitty crow cam can pull over 300rwhp(118mph).. no chance.
guy must of been running big shot of no2 or something.

a stage 3 crow cam would be at least 272 degrees and 10 or 12 mm lift .. which isnt small

and with ross forged pistons,, hed be running big compression.. if a good set of extractors and a good intake,, and maybe a chip can get you to 15/15.5

taking around 1/1.5 seconds off isnt so hard and by doing the mods he had it would be quite feasible.. i dont see why he couldnt have done it.

you dont need 300rwhp to run a 14 flat in a VL commodore do you?..
you sure as hell dont need that in my 4wheel drive galant.
maybe the N/A got better traction off the line?

[ED40]

dude a stage 3 crow is nothing to brag about. If he wanted big power from N/A he would of had to have a custom grind cam at least, I dont think anyone makes huge cams for RB30's?

14 flat is beleiveable mate if he was using slicks and no interior, its just the 118mph part which is total bs. A more beleiveable figure would of been 98-100mph.

In comparison to ur galant i would say u have alot less wieght and the fact u have AWD would give you very good launches.

[Lonewolf]

In comparison to ur galant i would say u have alot less wieght and the fact u have AWD would give you very good launches.

VL is a couple of hundred KG lighter... obviously less traction, and torque.
118mph is BS for sure.

anyone smart building an n/a rb30, would convert to a DOHC setup.

[DTM-031]

it WAS NOT 118mph.... it was 98mph.
the 13.9 is correct though
twin throttle bodies, custom cam, custom extractors, 2.5" exhaust, shitloads more.
the motor was for sale for 5k iirc

[ED40]

well there you go. no dramas then thanks for clearing it up. cant beleive a vl is lighter then a galant! fat little things.

[Smoked]

my jap spec galant is 1340kg from the factory without me in it.
aus spec versions were 1450.. the heaviest of the lot

[Libertygt]

some people like to waste their time don't they. Why even bother. If you wanna be different, then don't put a rb30 in it, there are so many of them hanging around. I got a better option put a ca18de in there and do that up, even more crazy.

[Smoked]

lol.. ca16de even ... 1175 mini cooper engine how about that?? ...stupid.

it needs an engine rebuild so hes making an engine that goes harder than stock.. jeezus its not a crime .. plus hes an apprentice and hes learning to build the motor properly... come people arent worried about cracking the fastest time ever possible in their cars and going turbo and all that shit.. just want it to pull hard if you give it some shit every now and again instead of being a stock slug.. and slight engine mods while staying N/A will do the trick

can delete this thread

[Brockas]

twin throttle bodies, custom cam, custom extractors, 2.5" exhaust, shitloads more.
the motor was for sale for 5k iirc

haaaaaaahahahahaha 5k for an N/A RB30??

[RICEY]

Could pick up an LS1 for that hahaha

[Brockas]

I think I'd rather ca16e...

[RICEY]

Yeh the ca would suit your haircut wayyy better

[Smoked]

lol.. if i was going to build a motor i would choose a VN v8 crate motor to start with ,, not an LS1.. and then if i had bulk money i could go twin turbo or supercharge it. but i probably wouldnt,, im a FAN of the N/A v8's.. i used to own one and it was great to drive,, even as auto

id build it to rev its tits off 8000rpm VN 5 litre FTW!

[RICEY]

5 litres arent designed to rev, I had one that went past 6000rpm and it would fill up the rocker covers with oil because it couldnt drain fast enough.

If youre a fan of NA V8 the LS1 shits on 5.0 for NA power even in stock form.

[Smoked]

dry sump lubrication for sure!!

if anything id like to build a touring car spec VN.. just like a replica of the castrol perkins group A.

[Brockas]

Yeh the ca would suit your haircut wayyy better

So a V8 suits a bald man?

:D

[NVIOUS]

5 litres arent designed to rev, I had one that went past 6000rpm and it would fill up the rocker covers with oil because it couldnt drain fast enough.

If youre a fan of NA V8 the LS1 shits on 5.0 for NA power even in stock form.

5L will rev much happily than LS1's, there's plenty of stock stroke cars with massive solids singing them to 8K running low 11/10's. You just need a decent breather setup to avoid the oil problem. Mine sees 7-7500rpm. After the thousands of worked LS1's i've heard, i've never heard any sound as nice as a high comp solid cammed holden 5L.
But that said yes, LS1's obviously are easier to extract power from, though more $$$.

[Joe]

..and NA RB30s are still a waste of time and dollars :)

[RICEY]

So a V8 suits a bald man?

:D

Not sure youll have to ask a bald man :D

[RICEY]

5L will rev much happily than LS1's, there's plenty of stock stroke cars with massive solids singing them to 8K running low 11/10's. You just need a decent breather setup to avoid the oil problem. Mine sees 7-7500rpm. After the thousands of worked LS1's i've heard, i've never heard any sound as nice as a high comp solid cammed holden 5L.
But that said yes, LS1's obviously are easier to extract power from, though more $$$.

Yeah no denying the 5.0 sounds tougher my VN sounded awesome on full song in the tunnel :D Problem was my built 15k baby stroker 5.0 engine put out the same hp as my tune only LS1 hahaha

[Smoked]

would it have given your ls1 a hiding? in a VN .. i would have thought yes.

my VN berlina 5 litre wagon had no trouble hosing the early gen 3s and mixing it with xr6 turbos.. my mate had a bugeye rex with a full HKS t/back exhaust and apexi intake.. and id stay with him off the line and creep away EVERY time.

my vn was chipped.. i think it would have to have been cammed. but i cant be sure.. had extractors ..2.5 exhaust into 3 at the back.. diff gears maybe.. not sure. had LSD.. CAi

it went on quite a few antilag cruises and the like

[WRCjosh]

if your rwd 8 stayed with a rex off the line your mate was obviously a retard :P

[Joe]

Exactly.

A street tyre bug eye WRX can crack a 1.7 60ft if driven properly...a street tyred Berlina 5L wagon won't get close to that.

[Smoked]

seriously,, we swapped cars and everything.. i dropped his clutch from 7k and him driving my VN stayed with it. im not talking it up it was just an absolute freak traction car. VS SS 16's with federal 225/50 rubber,, strong LSD.

i dont know why,, but thats what it did and i dont make up stories.

plenty of ppl i know can and will vouch for it

[ben351]

your mate must have been passing you back the crack pipe out the window hence the slow take off ...

[Smoked]

it wasnt just his rex though,, it was all of them.. the boosted ones would pull away once into second.. mine just launched perfectly every time fuk knows why it just did..
i once beat a supercharged 5 litre VS sedan. got him off the line and stayed there till 180 then i backed off

.. we were at leavers and we went and found a massive straight road in the middle of nowhere near dunsborough somewhere.. it was great .. we had a couple of runs and i won each time,, by getting him off the line he couldnt catch me

[ben351]

it was just an absolute freak traction car.

federal 225/50 rubber



there is your answer. :)

[Smoked]

lol yeah.. before i put them on it used to have 0 traction off the line,, slick dunlop bathurst 1000's haha

[ben351]

Federals are THE shizz.

And when you do spin the tires up ( in a controlled environment ) the strips are as BLACK as a worker at Tuart Hill Maccas

[Smoked]

Federals are THE shizz.

And when you do spin the tires up ( in a controlled environment ) the strips are as BLACK as a worker at Tuart Hill Maccas

LOL tuart hill maccas workers are definately about as #000000 as they come

only problem was those federals dont last long at all,, theyre soft as fuk but they sure do grip!

i did a big burnout once and my strips were there for at least 18 months

[ben351]

under ground car park at Contacio's i seen* a car leave black strips there about 18months ago too ... still faint lines there to this day
















*may or may not have been resposable

[Smoked]

haha.. nice.

i want another v8.. :(

[RICEY]

would it have given your ls1 a hiding? in a VN .. i would have thought yes.

my VN berlina 5 litre wagon had no trouble hosing the early gen 3s and mixing it with xr6 turbos.. my mate had a bugeye rex with a full HKS t/back exhaust and apexi intake.. and id stay with him off the line and creep away EVERY time.

my vn was chipped.. i think it would have to have been cammed. but i cant be sure.. had extractors ..2.5 exhaust into 3 at the back.. diff gears maybe.. not sure. had LSD.. CAi

it went on quite a few antilag cruises and the like

Same HP and VN was a coupla hundred kgs lighter so in a straight line yeah the VN would probably be in front. Point is it cost 15k to make the 5.0 beat a stock LS1, hardly worth the money.

A 5.0 wagon hosing gen3s and xr6ts? They obviously werent trying too hard hahaha

[Smoked]

dude.. they were giving max stick the same as i did. i talked to them.. everyone was always well suprised

[Smoked]

my wagon tipped scales at 1490 with me in.. freak

[dorifto_kingu]

what car does an ls1 come in standard?

[RICEY]

All V8 Commodore/Statesman/Ute from VT-VZ

[vy ss ute m6]

if your rwd 8 stayed with a rex off the line your mate was obviously a retard :P
or his VN had fukall hp lol

[Smoked]

yeah that too.. but enough to still go alright.

[locote]

LOL this thread is sooo funny!!!
Maybe HOLDEN should recall all their 00 to 07 SV8s, SS, SSz, AND HSVs
and fit them all up with these powerfull 165kw VN 5lt motor's

Seems they were an the ball all that time...

[dorifto_kingu]

NA rb30's are shit

[Brockas]

NA rb30's are shit

Thats some great input.

I'm thrilled you're back from your ban. I'm predicting it wont last too long...

[dorifto_kingu]

well there really isnt much else to be said about them, except that they are shit.

this didnt really require a thread that lasted 3 pages...

[vy ss ute m6]

LOL this thread is sooo funny!!!
Maybe HOLDEN should recall all their 00 to 07 SV8s, SS, SSz, AND HSVs
and fit them all up with these powerfull 165kw VN 5lt motor's

Seems they were an the ball all that time...

ahahahahahahaha:werd:

im now pulling my ls1 for a big five ohhh

[Joe]

well there really isnt much else to be said about them, except that they are shit.

this didnt really require a thread that lasted 3 pages...

...and you weren't required to post shit in every thread....so see you in 3 months :)

[Smoked]

NA rb30's are shit

dude.. stfu.