HAVE YOUR SAY! Proposed Redevelopment of Barbagallo Raceway, Perth

[DigitalPho3nix]

Hey everyone!

This is an appeal to anyone who has used or is currently using any of the facilities at Barbagallo Raceway, in Perth.

The WA Sporting Car Club is proposing a redevelopment of most the site, and I have been given the opportunity to sit on an advisory committee that will advise of changes to be made, additions, and revamping of current facilities.

As such, I am appealing to anyone who has any constructive feedback on anything they think should be done better, or anything the track is missing, or anything that you think is substandard.

Let me know sooner rather than later as we have a very limited timeframe to come up with the redevelopment plan (less than 3 months).

Thanks everyone, your input is appreciated!

Chris Lane
chrislane@exemail.com.au

[FranZ]

Track layout won't change.

On the infield I propose either of the following:

1. A smaller track that could facilitate go karts and drifting.
2. A concrete skidpan with the ability to have (bore)water flow across it.


*shrug* ...I can live in hope.

[Tre-Cool]

*Impossible* But move the track.

Some one had to say it.

[BOSS 290]

Better access into/out of the track.

I'd rather go to Philip Island to watch the V8 Supercars than go to Barbagello. GA viewing is p!ss poor so unless you have the cash to purchase corporate tickets the best viewing/atmosphere is at home watching it on the big screen, or again, at PI!

On second thoughts, demolish the place and build a brand new venue elsewhere.

[TJ]

Better access is a must.. 2 lane road please... both ways.

Infield skidpan, and a heap of infield options to open the track up.. imagine a
barbagello a b and c just by setting up some wtiches hats.

More seating.

[wadragracing]

Tight drift track on the inside would be neat, would make for better viewing if you could keep it all between say the first turn and the tower. Would also limit "damage" to the racing surface. Also extend start of main straight off into bush somewhere to create enough run off for eighth mile drag racing :D

[adrenalin]

A big skidpan area would be great that allows the use of skidpans in the wet. I know sydney is allowed to do it but in perth they used to but apparently stopped because of water restrictions. Dunno if that applies to bore water as well.

As said more seating especially over at S Bend so you can sit down and dont have to worry botu everyone standing along the fence blocking your view.

[ben351]

Infield Drift Park like in Japan ...

[adrenalin]

could link the skidpan to track so when people win they can go out and do victory donuts.

[DigitalPho3nix]

All good suggestions, thank you!

The track will not be demolished and moved elsewhere, so forget about that one...

Do not rule out changes to the track! We were thinking of reversing the direction of circulation, so that Shell Corner and the Esses form a sort of 'corkscrew'. Should be great for you drifting people, a challenge for the other catagories too, and should make for great viewing. We are looking at a track extension too to help bring laptimes up, and enhance the possibility of some endurance events.

A second track on the infield is also a no-go as is a skidpan. We are thinking of moving pit lane onto the infield area to help maximise the space in pit lane. Then the start/finish straight will be twice as wide, and hence able to hold more cars.

Spectating points are a priority, and proper a Corporate Hospitality venue too.

[TJ]

Pits on the infield causes massive dramas for people wanting to go to and forth during racing... danger danger.

Skidpan inside, do not be weak.

[joshg123]

Id be swinging towards a seperate tight trift track, or at least some extra roads to use some of the track and some of a new drift track. As what i hear from the racers from the wascc is that drift is dramatically reducing the grip on the track to a point where lap times are becoming close to what they used to be before the track was resurfaced.

A nice big skidpan where ahg/Mcmotorsport events could take place to take the pressure off some of the sessions that MC and ahg do.

Use the back straight where the v8 temporary stand sits as a permanent structure. To watch a v8 race from there is pretty damn nice, and this could free up the space where the clubhouse sits for a big corperate/stand area.

Id assume these modifications would be in response to avesco announcing the v8's wouldnt return due to safety and facilities?

[mr_mike]

Do not rule out changes to the track! We were thinking of reversing the direction of circulation, so that Shell Corner and the Esses form a sort of 'corkscrew'. Should be great for you drifting people, a challenge for the other catagories too, and should make for great viewing. We are looking at a track extension too to help bring laptimes up, and enhance the possibility of some endurance events.



Last time this was suggested on DriftWa forums some1 from WASCC said this was not possible due the fact the camber of the corners and the speed ppl would come out of the S's would b far to dangerous as most ppl would just end up spearing of the track and into the infield.
But i guess if changes were made to support the reverse direction i guess it would work.

Personally i would like better access to the place and better spectator facilitys. A smaller tighter track for driftin and motokana style events in the infield would b good. Not only makin the track able to cater for a diffrent type of motorsport enthusiast but would also make a great spot for ppl wantin to learn how to drift. They would b able to attack the small track using 1st and 2nd gear and bein able to learn car control before goin straight onto the big track.

[MMM]

my 2 cents

The track it self is crap!! watching the v8 supercars is boring as bat shit! no one over takes because they simply cant! ive been goign there to watch the supercars for the past 15 years and its beyond a joke now! they had all this time to fix it up and now wait till they are gonna lose the contract to do anything about it!

whatever the plan is do the the right thing! spend the money get the returns

[DigitalPho3nix]

Sorry forgot to mention that a undertrack tunnel is also on the cards to allow free access to the infield pits.

Yes I think this is in response to the V8's announcing they are not coming back in '09. Not sure, but I am sure I will find out at the board meetings.

Wow, lots of folks are all for the infield small drift/karting track! I am trying not to discard ideas at this stage, so it will be taken on board.

I agree completely MMM, the money needs to be spent in order to enjoy the returns. We are trying to develop this track to an international level such that Perth can play host to rounds of foreign catagories. The JGTC were apparently interested in having a round down at the Bunbury track (before the whole project fell on it's face, AGAIN) so maybe we can try attract that sort of attention. I am sure it would generate ticket sales due to the huge Jap car culture here in Perth, and promote Perth once again on the World Stage.

[joshg123]

But, to widen, or make any modifications to the track as it sits. The track needs to be made 8m wide at all points is this not correct?

So to make alterations to the track, is going to be a very costly exersize as the whole complex and surrounding areas will have to be brought up to a bathurst spec standard.

[wadragracing]

My Pho3nix, I think you would not need much for a drift track on the inside. I haven't seen that much drifting but all you would need is say about 50 metres off turn one have a new section coming off and doing a tight turn, before linking to a turn in the opposite direction, maybe something else tossed in there and then a straight section at the end that could run off on to the access roads or something back to the start of the main street. Would be great as fans would then be able to see the whole contest, rather than losing sight as they go up on to the hill. Would create good atmosphere, a better experience and get you more spectators. Could also be used as a tight track for the sprint series or something similar even if you linked it up back somewhere around just before turn one.

[DigitalPho3nix]

But, to widen, or make any modifications to the track as it sits. The track needs to be made 8m wide at all points is this not correct?

So to make alterations to the track, is going to be a very costly exersize as the whole complex and surrounding areas will have to be brought up to a bathurst spec standard.

Barbagallo Raceway is somewhat of an exception to this rule. Yes, CAMS regulations specify that the track must be at least 8m wide at all points. But after careful analysis a couple of years ago, it was found that making the track wider would actually make the circuit a much more dangerous place.

I acknowledge that international series' may require a wider circuit anyway, but this will need to be researched.

[DigitalPho3nix]

My Pho3nix, I think you would not need much for a drift track on the inside. I haven't seen that much drifting but all you would need is say about 50 metres off turn one have a new section coming off and doing a tight turn, before linking to a turn in the opposite direction, maybe something else tossed in there and then a straight section at the end that could run off on to the access roads or something back to the start of the main street. Would be great as fans would then be able to see the whole contest, rather than losing sight as they go up on to the hill. Would create good atmosphere, a better experience and get you more spectators. Could also be used as a tight track for the sprint series or something similar even if you linked it up back somewhere around just before turn one.

If people are ok with a small tight drift track, then I suppose it is a possibility! It is a real hassle with the amount of space we have to play with... I WISH WE HAD MORE ROOM!! :slap:

[joshg123]

The problem is, this forum is nearly all jap machine based. Primarily being drift.

Speak to a vintage car club and they will have a completley different set of suggestions, like automated tea rooms, and disposable 5l drums of oil because their old cars burn oil like petrol.

The hard part is a medium, who spends the most time at the track? Drifters or regurlar racers? That is for the board to decide.

[Lonewolf]

better lighting so long track can be run at night.
I think the bowl would be awesome to drive at night...

[V8ENZ]

Kart track at wannaroo already and theres an abandonned skidpan there to where mc motorsport used to run before it went out to grogan road.

dedicated supermotor track would be cool

better access and spectator viewing is a must

[mc68]

The problem is, this forum is nearly all jap machine based. Primarily being drift.

Speak to a vintage car club and they will have a completley different set of suggestions, like automated tea rooms, and disposable 5l drums of oil because their old cars burn oil like petrol.

The hard part is a medium, who spends the most time at the track? Drifters or regurlar racers? That is for the board to decide.

i know the historics are usually alot more exciting to watch !:lol:

[FranZ]

Barbagallo Raceway is somewhat of an exception to this rule. Yes, CAMS regulations specify that the track must be at least 8m wide at all points. But after careful analysis a couple of years ago, it was found that making the track wider would actually make the circuit a much more dangerous place.

I acknowledge that international series' may require a wider circuit anyway, but this will need to be researched.

Barbagallo is an exception to this rule because of its change and how it hasn't changed its current layout; if layout changes, it will need to confirm with FIA rules which mean 12m main straight, 8m wide everywhere else and much much bigger run offs everywhere. Going by FIA rules, the sandtrap at the end of the front straight should almost be to the access road into the place; sandtrap at Ford Fast break should end somewhere near the members carpark. If Im not mistaken, Queensland (Sandown?), Phillip Island and Eastern Creek are the only FIA accredited circuits in Australia. Even places like Oran Park don't comply.

If Im wrong, please correct me, but I don't think I'm far off the money.

I still stand by my suggestion of a smaller track in the infield or preferably a wet skidpan.

[TJ]

So pretty much as it stands

-no room to expand, or a lack of willingness to do so
-no real desire to cater to the changing motorsport scene
-want to pretty up the place only

This wont go down well.

[[PIG GTS]]

so much land out there build a new track (but yer... budgets comes into consideration)
im in for the wet skid pan and tight track
need more seating aswell more towards cat corner, esses

[ben351]

knock down some of the fucking pines and expand the track ...

dont be weak kunts ... plant some more trees else where or keep some in the infield or on the track as obsticles :)

[kneedtotinkle]

Expand the track, make it more usable and larger so more people wanna race at the damn place!

Update the layout! Bring in better hangars in the pits!

Spend some dollars and get a hollywood track.

FUNDRAISING TIME BITCHES!

[Lump]

Last time this was suggested on DriftWa forums some1 from WASCC said this was not possible due the fact the camber of the corners and the speed ppl would come out of the S's would b far to dangerous as most ppl would just end up spearing of the track and into the infield.
But i guess if changes were made to support the reverse direction i guess it would work.
.


i ran the reverse direction short track there a few years ago.

i rekon if its staying, extend the track.

they made that separate hill climb circuit, when they could have used it to expand the original circuit in stages

[wadragracing]

If people are ok with a small tight drift track, then I suppose it is a possibility! It is a real hassle with the amount of space we have to play with... I WISH WE HAD MORE ROOM!! :slap:
You should ask to borrow someone's Option DVDs, the tracks they have can be quite tight. Barbagallo is unusually open.

[MMM]

little circuits in the middle would be nice.. but realistically they need to focus on the main track, pit areas and spectator viewing. the drift tracks and skid pans can wait for later

[joshg123]

Got a letter today,

Resurfacing parts of track as its breaking up.

Id tend to think, if they are going to spend the money fixing it. They arent changing it?

Hmmmmm

[iluv2moan]

whats happening to this potentiag JGTC or whatever it is

why not just build 1 decent track - perhaps something even f1 cars can race on

[wadragracing]

whats happening to this potentiag JGTC or whatever it is

why not just build 1 decent track - perhaps something even f1 cars can race on
Because they are different groups with different ideas, and Bunbury, although I keep hearing positive news, has been one of these tracks that never seems to eventuate.
I don't think anything should be built to cater for F1, it is so far out of reach. Just goes to the country who can pay them the most now.

[DigitalPho3nix]

The Bunbury Circuit is not going to happen in the near future. No-one wants to put money into it, and the guys organising it (PIMM) are disorganised. Apparently they tried to start construction without getting CAMS approval for the facility, and CAMS very quickly said 'No'. If we can pinch the JGTC from them, that would be great!

F1 is way out of the equation.

The Jack's Hill course is a dedicated hillclimb course and unrelated to the main circuit. It has been there for ages, but was recently extended and polished up.

The minor track repairs are a temporary measure until a plan is in place for redevelopment, and that will be in under 3 months or so.

The money is there ready to be spent, it is just a matter of how much we can squeeze from the WA government and other major shareholders.

[Sciflyer]

Infield tracks/pans are a good low cost option but really the WASCC being primarily a racing club needs to expand the track, sooner or later they are going to have to do something about inadequate runoff and 50sec laptimes just not cutting it

Ive always thought that Shell corner should do a complete 180 and the track double back across the hill again before turning back and down to Kolb corner, that way you maximise the viewing from the main spectator area

But anyway all that is in addition to improving the access which is a pretty major priority i would think.

If they are serious then bulk $$$ will be required, if not or if the govt is not interested then it will just be another patch-up job, marking time until the lease expires and the track can be broken up for another housing estate...

[iluv2moan]

i think it would be save to assume f1 will always have a round in australia


wouldnt take much to steal it from melbourne with a purpose built track

[wadragracing]

i think it would be save to assume f1 will always have a round in australia


wouldnt take much to steal it from melbourne with a purpose built track

:lol: It's nice that you have such beliefs but it is never going to happen. The govt here let Rally Australia go, and that event turned a profit. The F1 makes Melbourne a loss each year. It would take a hell of a lot to steal it from Melbourne, it's just not even worth contemplating.

[mr_mike]

melboune f1 would run at a loss cos its a road circuit, think how much mony is tied up each year in just assembling and dismantling the course itself.
I doubt barbagello could ever host F1's not only the track itself but the infastructure of Perth could not support such a large scale event.

[Miami]

As far as the Govt is concerned, it's probably not a high-profile enough event, and not going to raise them enough money.

They'd much rather build a giant ferris wheel.

[wadragracing]

Haha funnily enough the idea of a giant ferris wheel isn't that bad because it would spin (pun intended) a profit. I actually think the belltower isn't that bad of a thing either because it can spur a bit of riverside development which the city needs badly. We should have more interesting stuff around Perth like this.

[Denver]

Do not rule out changes to the track! We were thinking of reversing the direction of circulation, so that Shell Corner and the Esses form a sort of 'corkscrew'. Should be great for you drifting people, a challenge for the other catagories too, and should make for great viewing. We are looking at a track extension too to help bring laptimes up, and enhance the possibility of some endurance events.

They ran the circut in reverse a number of years ago when gordon, the tool mitchell was club president, it was his dream to make it happen, it happened once for the night masters and never again..

The track was never designed to be run in reverse, They had to install a chicane at the pit entry <in that race it was exit> at ford fast break, which channeled the cars onto the pit lane entry road, and took off enough speed so as to avoid them barrelling straight into the wall..

The same can be said for cat corner, comming down the hill and then pegging full noise out of the corner and having it all go wrong, would put you into the wall before you know whats happening, theres no run off, on a lot of the corners for a reverse direction track, and as you pointed out, the corner design isn't up to spec..


The Bunbury Circuit is not going to happen in the near future. No-one wants to put money into it, and the guys organising it (PIMM) are disorganised. Apparently they tried to start construction without getting CAMS approval for the facility, and CAMS very quickly said 'No'. If we can pinch the JGTC from them, that would be great!


I've said from day one it won't happen, BUT

If they did get it going, they don't need to even bother calling cams, they're building an FIA/International circut, all they need to do is ring the FIA and ask them to inspect and approve it, cams have no say in the matter, heck, he wouldn't even need to bother with cams to get an event permit, as everything they are planning to run, AFAIK will be FIA sanctioned events, eg, JGTC, and F1 testing

As for my opinion of what needs to be done to the track, the WASCC need to have a good hard look at whats bringing in the money now days..

V8's make a proffit, The truck meet makes a proffit, and no suprise here, the only other event WASCC holds that makes any form of proffit, is Drift..

Every other local race meet, last i heard, was making a loss..

So how about putting some money back into the sports that are making the money eg the drift, by adding a new section of track to add some more corners in, make a nice tight section that comes off either the main straight and links back into the start of cat, or off the exit of cat which links back in half way thru the esses or something to that nature, make it more exciting and harder...

It'd also add more spice to the local race meets, and certainly events like the night masters as it'd mean they'd have a longer short track to compete on, and make wanneroo a more technical circut, as when you think about it, its pretty dull in comparision to most tracks out there, collie for example is a much more technical track than wanners is..

Pits on the infield i think would be a retarded idea, as part of the attraction for the v8 weekend at waneroo, is the ability to walk through the pits, and check out all the cars, shifting that to the infield would put people off wanting to go to them, thats if they are allowed to go into the pits on the infield..

not only would WASCC be loosing money for pit access to begin with, id put money on it costing spectator numbers on a whole..

Oh yeah, and i said this years ago on the WASCC forums, and no one bothered to seemingly listen then, so i doubt it'll make much of a difference now..

but try and get it through the comitee's head, that if you advertise events properly, people will come watch them, spectator numbers at all the events has been low for years, and i think its mainly to do with the lack of any advertising, the night masters events would always have a good spectator turnout, but when they stopped avertising them, they had very little spectator turnout, same goes for the other events, if they push them to the public via the mass media, people will come..

[wadragracing]

If they did get it going, they don't need to even bother calling cams, they're building an FIA/International circut, all they need to do is ring the FIA and ask them to inspect and approve it, cams have no say in the matter, heck, he wouldn't even need to bother with cams to get an event permit, as everything they are planning to run, AFAIK will be FIA sanctioned events, eg, JGTC, and F1 testing


I think we've covered this before but isn't CAMS like the authorised FIA sub-group in Australia? I think if FIA were contacted directly they would probably say "Go to CAMS".

[Denver]

Possibly, but, FIA covers international events, so given the intention to run international motorsport at bunno, id say they'll be the ones doing the duties,

CAMS only cover australian events..

I was on the cams state council about the time bunbury was making noise, and even they agreeg at the time if he wanted to, he wouldn't need to even get in touch with cams..

[wadragracing]

Hmmm that's true. It's probably in their constitution somewhere.

[wadragracing]

What is CAMS?

The Confederation of Australian Motor Sport Limited (CAMS) has been the custodian of motor sport in Australia since 1953.

CAMS is the National Sporting Authority (ASN) for motor sport in Australia, delegated this responsibility by the Federation Internationale de l'Automobile (FIA) in 1970.

The FIA aims to ensure that motor sport is conducted in accordance with the highest standards of safety and fairness and CAMS, with 163 other ASNs in 119 nations, are committed to carrying out the mission of the FIA.


Looks like it would be difficult to usurp CAMS given the close ties with the FIA.

[Krisko]

sorry to be a noob digging up an old dead thread.....but....

a dog leg on either the back straight or the main straight would be plenty enough to make barbs more drift friendly. IMO its a good fast drift track which flows well, tho i only have collie to compare it to. a bit more run off on the outside of the esses couldnt hurt either.

if you are concerned about room in the infield for a skid pan, perhaps consider one of the larger parking areas... skidpan days dont draw many crowds? pretty rough plan, but im sure with some better planning than a net-random it could be done quite well.

[JME]

More left hand turns and spend moola on advertising OFTEN!

[joshg123]

sorry to be a noob digging up an old dead thread.....but....

a dog leg on either the back straight or the main straight would be plenty enough to make barbs more drift friendly. IMO its a good fast drift track which flows well, tho i only have collie to compare it to. a bit more run off on the outside of the esses couldnt hurt either.

if you are concerned about room in the infield for a skid pan, perhaps consider one of the larger parking areas... skidpan days dont draw many crowds? pretty rough plan, but im sure with some better planning than a net-random it could be done quite well.

Problem is, you turn it into a drift friendly track, and you will make it an un friendly formula ford, formula v ect track. As they rely on good brakes and high corner speeds to make their catogory exiting. Yes you will gain more drifters, but you will lose more regulars.

Gotta remember that the track isnt only on when you go down for nightmasters or drift battles The track is booked nearly every day of the week for driver training ect. So there is actually a fuckload of people that use the track for times/regularity during the week ect. So you have to find where the majority of the support is in.

[TJ]

Agreed.

Drift does not run Wanners, it wont... not for now. If the sport grows.. and they lose the V8's, then who knows?

[DISTRBD]

Possibly, but, FIA covers international events, so given the intention to run international motorsport at bunno, id say they'll be the ones doing the duties,

CAMS only cover australian events..

I was on the cams state council about the time bunbury was making noise, and even they agreeg at the time if he wanted to, he wouldn't need to even get in touch with cams..


Bunno track been put back ANOTHER 2 yrs , found some rare " donkey orchid " thats protected :lol:

[Lump]

yeh heard that too.
with all the $$$ in WA you would think we could have something decent in this day & age, FFS look at darwin they have a awesome circuit.

[FranZ]

Agreed.

Drift does not run Wanners, it wont... not for now. If the sport grows.. and they lose the V8's, then who knows?

I have heard that behind the V8's, the drift is on par with the trucks in terms of bringing $$$ in for the WASCC. Don't under estimate drift.

The everyday driver training/track hire would cover day to day running costs and maintenance.

[wadragracing]

Bunno track been put back ANOTHER 2 yrs , found some rare " donkey orchid " thats protected :lol:
It's just another excuse. It only came up because he tried to rezone land different to what he originally applied for back in 2003. And nothing has happened since 2003. Don't hold your breath.

Drift wouldn't be a bad earner for Wanneroo, I would say up there with the trucks. Real money is in the track hire, driver training etc though.

[vy ss ute m6]

the V8's will never die, cause it shows off good old Aussie cars & engines,with exceptional characteristics like:

Reliability
Power
Speed
Power
Oil Leaks
Rough Idles
and twisty corners!

:D

[DISTRBD]

It's just another excuse. It only came up because he tried to rezone land different to what he originally applied for back in 2003. And nothing has happened since 2003. Don't hold your breath.

Drift wouldn't be a bad earner for Wanneroo, I would say up there with the trucks. Real money is in the track hire, driver training etc though.


I been saying from day 1 that this dipshit wouldnt go through with it .. :lol:

[Krisko]

Problem is, you turn it into a drift friendly track, and you will make it an un friendly formula ford, formula v ect track. As they rely on good brakes and high corner speeds to make their catogory exiting. Yes you will gain more drifters, but you will lose more regulars.

Gotta remember that the track isnt only on when you go down for nightmasters or drift battles The track is booked nearly every day of the week for driver training ect. So there is actually a fuckload of people that use the track for times/regularity during the week ect. So you have to find where the majority of the support is in.

Plenty of tracks around the world have doglegs placed on straights to keep the speed down. The original track would still remain.

[joshg123]

Dog leg, chicane, whatever. You have to re-do the WHOLE track to 8m

There is no exception to the rule

Highly unlikley that the tracks layout will change.