intercooler piping question

[TJ]

Obviously , people use steel to do intercooler piping on cars, whether it be mild or stainless.

Now for my stupid question - could you use rubber/plastic piping to do the job, with the inside of the piping reinforced with metal coil, to stop the pipe sucking shut.

this may sound stupid, and i may get burnt for this, but its a question thats been niggling inside my head for a while.

I really cant see why it could be done? perhaps heat ? i really dont know..

I await the replys

Tom

[upgarage]

AFAIKIntercoolers have a positive pressure not a vacuum. I'd be more worried about the pipes bursting open than closing shut. find out what pressures reticulation pipes can withstand.

[hako]

think of the amount of factory turbocharged cars that have piping made from plastic/rubber etc

mitsubishi 3000gt has lengths of braided nylon piping
falcon turbo piping is mostly plastic
the mazda sp turbo has heaps of plastic
i could go on

it wouldnt be much of a problem in most street applications, but to the small-time modifier, without the resources of large manufacturers, metal is a much simpler alternative.

[B0BB0]

yeh look at the s13's etc tj, pipe that runs over the radiator is plastic,

i think the problem with it, is that you get a pipe as it is, and the only modification u can do is cutting is, ie u cant weld with plastic (only few ppl can). then the only option that u have is buying shit loads of bit and have alot of joins, and u wont have the long length one peice item, eg from turbo to cooler.

seems like too much effort to me, and more joins = more chance of poping cooler hoses off

[TJ]

i think it would attract less police attention then polished shiny metal, thats one reason for it

[B0BB0]

who says the metal has to be polisd, ppl can choose to get it powered coated, but they like the look

[RB20ZED]

oooooooooooooohhhhh shiney

[TJ]

no one says it has to be shiney, but rubber is even less attracting then black metal.

Clint thankyou for the worst post in recent times on this forum, specially in the technical section

[WRCjosh]

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/forumfun/negative24.jpg

[McLOVIN]

TJ perhaps you should look into some black silicon piping. Won't attract attention and it's actually the right stuff to use for this application if you don't want metal.

[TJ]

its exactly what i was thinking dude.

[McLOVIN]

Just don't expect it to be cheap.

[CussCuss]

yep bend over silicone piping is a fuckin ripoff.

[bodybodyrock]

ive seen a car using gutter down piping once before

looked dodgy as hell but worked seemingly well???

[magic1]

under vacuum the compresser inlet pipe of standard gtrs can suck in because it is plastic.

[McLOVIN]

That can happen with most turbo cars.

Gutter downpiping? As in PVC pipe or tin? PVC would melt and tin would probably disintegrate after a short while.

[CussCuss]

http://www4.tpg.com.au/rand/simvc-001f.jpg
well it can be done, it wouldnt be a high boost application but high HP.

[OmEg_A7]

Has anyone used PVC piping for IC pipes?
I have thought about using it before, the only problem would be the heat melting the pipes, having said that, all the pipes would do is deform and collapse, rather than melt away.
What tempratures are normally recorded from the outlet of a turbo?
I have had a PVC spud cannon that operated on 80psi+ of compressed air and it worked for ages without a problem, so i dont see why it couldnt be used in a car, as i doubt many of you would use boost pressure anywhere near 80psi..

[McLOVIN]

Only the biggest tightass would use PVC for intercooler piping. It wouldn't last long due to the underbonnet temperatures.

Do the job properly or don't do it at all.

[StevoR31]

Man you saw my car at Steve May's that cooler piping i did myself and it cost only about $250, for that price really i'd just do it properly then for looking discreet you can always paint it black or cover with wrap of some sort. But theres a place in malaga called couplers i dunno they may have assorted rubber/plastic piping i bought some 3" rubber hose ages ago.

[bossplaya]

Stainless, or aluminium, or keep with the stock cooler. dont fuck around with mild steel or even worse, PVC and shit.

[TJ]

would never do it in mild steel

but was thinking of alternatives to the shiny piping yellow sticker scenarios.

[doriae86]

ill be using mild material in my intercooler setup
nuthing wrong with it

[Lord_Muck]

The benefits of mild steel are that its easy to work with, can be joined without risk of it coming apart, can be mandrel bent to any shape required, welding is cheap, strong, and easy to do.
Stainless and Ali work in the same way, but stainless is more expensive and looks pretty (also heavier than mild steel) Ali is a prick to weld, and also to bend as it collapses too easily, plus u'd still have to paint it and it'd transfer heat just as easily as mild steel, it'd just be lighter, however you'd still have to use much thicker Wall thickness when using Ali tube to get the same strength, therefor loosing internal diameter, affecting the volume of air and air speed.

Using PVC pipe is just backyarder spec, its not going to last, would u rely on it in a high performance car? Next you'll be using a biscuit tin with foam from a matress for a POD filter.

All in all, stick to mild steel for cost or stainless steel for bling, both do the same job. Mild steel is unlikely to rust as hot air passes thru it while your driving so that keeps it dry, and not a lot of water will get on it while your sitting still.

See me or PM me for stainless steel or Ali polishing if you need your piping shined up, catchas :)

[MrMayhem]

cooler piping and the cooler itself you permit like a good boy and you can make it as shiney as you wish

[B0BB0]

i had mild steel in my previous setup in my car, was rusted on the inside.

[onemxracer]

i used ali and silicone hose n mild steel for were the bov goes.. i found go gear best price for 2 1/2 to 3 inch silicone hose.. and they sell alloy doughnuts and other bits..

[bodybodyrock]

on this note
does anyone know of any places that will do a fmic piping setup for reasonable prices using mild steel??? pm or reply here

thanks

[Scradly]

i was goin to get mild steel piping but the guy told me it would rust on the inside from condensation. So i got stainless. On the other hand your engine breathes so it will coat the piping with a light oil film to stop it rusting.

Just go stainless or ali.
In my opinon i reckon stainless piping that has a brushed finish with welds smoothed out looks good rather than shiny shit. Like REXECUTORS piping.

Yeh n e way sold be car . sad in way coz it waz me first car . But now i can get my R32

[Jinman]

TJ, the question you asked at the start. PVC does work for low boost (sub 10psi) application but is obviously going to be affected by the heat of the engine bay over time and is not as reliable at the joins and clamps.
Ally is stupidly priced and only for a real diehard "weight reduction" kid. Mild steel does rust, yes it's cheaper and lighter than stainless and majority of people have no issues with mild rusting on the turbo side of the cooler due to the heat of the air drying it out but condensation can form on the i/c outlet side if the i/c is doing its job of course. bottom line is the cost factor. If you have the money, get stainless, if not, mild steel and maybe laquer it or as somebody else said, as soon as some oil runs through there, you shouldnt have a problem. pvc works but should only really be used to dummy up piping or as a temporary means of limping maybe.

[GTR500]

Mild steel does rust on the inside and the money saved by using this will soon be used up when you have to pull the head off and repair the damage valve seats were the rust particals got caught,spend a little extra now and save a lot later

[TJ]

Blake and Danny thankyou for your answers

[Wobbz]

Mild steel does rust on the inside and the money saved by using this will soon be used up when you have to pull the head off and repair the damage valve seats were the rust particals got caught,spend a little extra now and save a lot later


Wouldn't fine rust particles just pass out of the engine? surely it'd be like when fine dust or similar gets sucked into your turbo (sure, eats the turbine blades away) ?

As for the "heat stops it rusting" thing... doesn't heat in fact increase the chemical reaction? Wouldn't that therefore make the mild steel oxidise/rust ? (just from what i remembered of chemistry at school)

[Saf]

Mostly been said before .... but mild steel is a very dodgy product on IC piping , due to its rusting and flaking off .

PVC has a lower melting point than most turbos run on outlet temp when pushed hard . Getting 120deg from a mid sized turbo isnt uncommon .

Silicone is a poor item to use . Its expensive , making its bang for buck application minimal , and flexes in larger quantity . You can fix this by running many cable ties around the hose , 20mm apart , but why would you run silicon in the first place ....

Piping can only crush under vac , pre turbo . If this happens , its the most logical way to see that your air filter is a useless POS . It is flowing much less air than the turbo demands , hence its crushes the intake .

I prefer stainless , its durable , wont crack as easily during a backfire , or a nitrous backfire for eg , and isnt made up of do-nuts with many joins and welds . If you have the time and patience to sit with a die grinder as you make it , and get all of the dags and port match it up , sure its fine , its nice and light too .

[CussCuss]

ill make sure to let you know when my mild steel system rusts enough for chunks to break off. Until then i refuse to believe that it will. ( i have fuckall blowby btw, pipes have been taken off a few times)

[Saf]

ill make sure to let you know when my mild steel system rusts enough for chunks to break off. Until then i refuse to believe that it will. ( i have fuckall blowby btw, pipes have been taken off a few times)

You dont have to let me know , im not really that fussed . Im saying it will happen . I make intercoolers (make , not re-sell) for a living , and i see it all too often .

[B0BB0]

i pulled a mild steel cooler system off my silvia. it had enough rust in it to fuck your head as gtr500 said.

if u ran your finger thru it, chucks of rust would come off. go stainless or ally. dont be cheap

[mek]

what if the mild steel was coated in rust surpressant or ceramic coated? Wouldn't rust then and would still cost less than stainless or aluminium pipe.

[CussCuss]

nah it will still rust because the conditions inside cooler piping are so ideal for rust, all that hot dry air and oil, rusts so easily.

[mek]

Not if its properly coated surely? What if it was galvanised then...coated in 500 degree molten zinc alloy. Still cheaper...

How much would titanium piping be?

[Saf]

nah it will still rust because the conditions inside cooler piping are so ideal for rust, all that hot dry air and oil, rusts so easily.

a) Oil in your inlet piping is a big no-no .... but judging by your reply , you should know why , so i need not say any more on that .

b) Do you have hot dry air when your sits at 4am in the middle of winter , be it inside or out ? . Obviously you havent taken this into account . Good luck with it .

[R32-GTR]

Quickfit morley for cooler piping . Ask for Aaron or look for the ten year old .

[CussCuss]

as it stands at 6am in the middle of winter there was no condensation anywhere on the outside of the cooler piping, would the inside be different?

[Saf]

I have thrown some pix on my server , feel free to dissagree . I cut this pipe up , and mailed the customer , as a local "performance" shop installed this mild steel piping in his car along with a hybrid intercooler . He then wanted a custom intercooler as the hybrid didnt meet his needs , and asked why i had to swap piping (i sent him pix because he works offshore, and i did the job while he was away) . The piping was poorly laid out , and needed to be re-done with my IC , but also it was made of mild steel .

www.isracing.com/mild_01.JPG
www.isracing.com/mild_02.JPG

He actually was at the shop while they did the piping , and he said it was "clean and shiny" on the inside . This is 6 months later . The car is a Perth car , low humidity area , great weather most of the year .

Moisture , is in the air we breathe . Its the same air that our engines breathe , and when a engine is not running , ambient air , along with its total moisture content , is in your filter , intake , turbo and intercooler piping. Steel is the worst material to use on anything upstream of internal combustion engines , hence why its NEVER used , only aluminium , stainless , plastic , FRP composites and titanium are used . Only select shops who work down to a price will use mild steel , simply because its easy to MIG up with minimal skill , and its very cheap to buy and easy to work with .

So far , ive swapped about a dozen , maybe more steel IC piping kits for stainless or ally . Im not trying to convince you to swap , im just giving my exp with no strings attached to people who are considering a IC and IC piping .

[Saf]

How much would titanium piping be?

A) Titanium is VERY difficult to weld . Its expensive to have welded , but can be done for $$$$$$

B) We have NO good titanium stock here in Aus . So , what you need is ti flat sheet , rolled to 2.5" or 3" dia , and seam welded to make a tube . That then has to be lobster backed (dozen or more cones to make a simple 90deg turn) and welded up . LOTS of labour , lot of time = BIG money .

C) Titanium mass for mass is actually heavier than aluminium . The reason why it becomes lighter , is that its MUCH stronger , and much more resistant to heat . Instead of running 1.8mm wall thickness on IC piping , you can run .75mm (29thou) wall thickness , thats now lighter and much stonger . Again , refer to problem A) , maybe 2 people in WA who can weld coke can thickness of titanium . I know one of em , he does my specialst welding like this , and for retail public he doesnt work for anything under 120 per hour .

To answer your question ? , from start to end , budget on 3500 to 4500aud for Ti piping from sheet , to turn key .

[Lord_Muck]

Did someone delete my post from earlier??? coz i posted, now where's it gone?

[Adsport]

TJ there is a place in kewdale called Harvey Hose, this is where james mr2jzgte's piping came from , its a partly flexible rubber/nylon hose with a brass coil in it, around $30 per foot , they refer to it as "marine grade exhaust" works F*cking well imho

[GA70TT]

listen to SAF, he knows what he is talking about!!!

on early supras, the piping is rubber and when it gets hot, the pipe does suck in, how much i dont know??

as for PVC pipe :dizzy: ................man, apart from looking like poo, it's got to break under heat for sure!

man i would love some SS piping on my car :droul:

[Little Erve]

If you were really keen you could use fibreglass.

Personally, I think I'd prefer anodized aluminium for intake plumbing.